Are recent 'high end' Mercedes cars poorly put together?
Discussion
I bought a 3 year old SL a year ago and seem to have nothing but niggly build quality issues with it. Really stupid things like in the centre console there's a cubby - push the little button and the twin lids open vertically. Except one of them has stopped working (they're not powered, they're on springs). The centre speaker started buzzing, errors with the intelligent headlight system, a squeaking window, really petty, ridiculous things that couldn't be a result of previous abuse.
The thing is that a friend recently got rid of an S Class of similar age for similar petty but frustrating reasons and I've heard of another SL that's the same. On the other hand a couple of people I know with C Class models have found them faultless.
And meanwhile, my partner's Skoda just gets serviced once a year and trundles on faultlessly.
I like the car immensely and, thinking it might just be a bit of a 'Friday afternoon' car was thinking of swapping it for a newer lower mileage SL in the hope of retaining the joy of the vehicle but losing the silly niggles with it.
However, I'm wondering whether modern 'high end' Mercedes just aren't very well put together.
Anyone care to share their experiences, good or bad?
The thing is that a friend recently got rid of an S Class of similar age for similar petty but frustrating reasons and I've heard of another SL that's the same. On the other hand a couple of people I know with C Class models have found them faultless.
And meanwhile, my partner's Skoda just gets serviced once a year and trundles on faultlessly.
I like the car immensely and, thinking it might just be a bit of a 'Friday afternoon' car was thinking of swapping it for a newer lower mileage SL in the hope of retaining the joy of the vehicle but losing the silly niggles with it.
However, I'm wondering whether modern 'high end' Mercedes just aren't very well put together.
Anyone care to share their experiences, good or bad?
I had a 2017 S213 E220d AMG Line from new for 3 years and put 42,000 miles on it - it was perfect, never went wrong, faultless, bulletproof.
When that lease was up I purchased another 2017 S213 E220d AMG Line (Premium Plus) bought it with 23,000 miles and it's now up to 29,000.
A couple of issues:
1. The wing mirror puddle lights failed - (not covered under 12 month Approved Used Mercedes Warranty) (£476)
2. Throttle pedal electrical connector failed - (not covered under 12 month Approved Used Mercedes Warranty) (£416)
3. One element in headed rear screen failed (IS covered under 12 month Approved Used Mercedes Warranty) (£XXX)
To be completely fair to my main dealer (Marshalls Mercedes, Southampton) they have been brilliant in offering some goodwill with regards to the non-warrantied items. A pleasure to deal with!
The manufactured dates (not registered dates) were only 9 months apart with my current car being 9 months older.
When that lease was up I purchased another 2017 S213 E220d AMG Line (Premium Plus) bought it with 23,000 miles and it's now up to 29,000.
A couple of issues:
1. The wing mirror puddle lights failed - (not covered under 12 month Approved Used Mercedes Warranty) (£476)
2. Throttle pedal electrical connector failed - (not covered under 12 month Approved Used Mercedes Warranty) (£416)
3. One element in headed rear screen failed (IS covered under 12 month Approved Used Mercedes Warranty) (£XXX)
To be completely fair to my main dealer (Marshalls Mercedes, Southampton) they have been brilliant in offering some goodwill with regards to the non-warrantied items. A pleasure to deal with!
The manufactured dates (not registered dates) were only 9 months apart with my current car being 9 months older.
I have definitely noticed quality dropping on everything S-class and down. I am still in my Shooting Brake CLS 63 AMG-S because I don't want an S-class or AMG GT. I want another fast estate but the E-class interior doesn't do it for me.
The SL is the old man of the current Merc lineup and development seems to be completely under resourced so it doesn't surprise me to hear you've had niggles.
It looks like the new one has finally brought it up to date so I'm keen to see how that turns out.
The SL is the old man of the current Merc lineup and development seems to be completely under resourced so it doesn't surprise me to hear you've had niggles.
It looks like the new one has finally brought it up to date so I'm keen to see how that turns out.
Ari said:
I like the car immensely and, thinking it might just be a bit of a 'Friday afternoon' car was thinking of swapping it for a newer lower mileage SL in the hope of retaining the joy of the vehicle but losing the silly niggles with it.
The good thing about buying a used one is you get to try the car first. I know someone very wealthy who says he won't buy new for exactly that reason.Ari said:
I bought a 3 year old SL a year ago and seem to have nothing but niggly build quality issues with it. Really stupid things like in the centre console there's a cubby - push the little button and the twin lids open vertically. Except one of them has stopped working (they're not powered, they're on springs). The centre speaker started buzzing, errors with the intelligent headlight system, a squeaking window, really petty, ridiculous things that couldn't be a result of previous abuse.
Sounds familiar.I've a CLS Shooting Brake, bought it at around 1yr old/8k miles, and despite having the highest list price and being the Mercedes with the highest model 'rank' I've ever had, it's been the most disappointing for niggles and build quality.
Drivers seat back creaks, creaks from OSF A pillar, footbrake often refuses to release, fan only clears 3/4 of windscreen (no air to other 1/4), lacquer on the alloys tarnishing, creaky tailgate struts, creak from steering wheel cowl. Some of these things are intermittent, but there's always something driving me crazy.
Just doesn't feel as solid as any E-Class I've previously owned, and it'll probably be my last Mercedes, as the local dealers just aren't interested in trying to remedy issues like this.
yellowbentines said:
Sounds familiar.
I've a CLS Shooting Brake, bought it at around 1yr old/8k miles, and despite having the highest list price and being the Mercedes with the highest model 'rank' I've ever had, it's been the most disappointing for niggles and build quality.
Drivers seat back creaks, creaks from OSF A pillar, footbrake often refuses to release, fan only clears 3/4 of windscreen (no air to other 1/4), lacquer on the alloys tarnishing, creaky tailgate struts, creak from steering wheel cowl. Some of these things are intermittent, but there's always something driving me crazy.
Just doesn't feel as solid as any E-Class I've previously owned, and it'll probably be my last Mercedes, as the local dealers just aren't interested in trying to remedy issues like this.
I think I've seen you post this before somewhere and it surprises me as I've had two CLS Shooting Brakes and no issues with either. Just goes to show how it can vary from car to car.I've a CLS Shooting Brake, bought it at around 1yr old/8k miles, and despite having the highest list price and being the Mercedes with the highest model 'rank' I've ever had, it's been the most disappointing for niggles and build quality.
Drivers seat back creaks, creaks from OSF A pillar, footbrake often refuses to release, fan only clears 3/4 of windscreen (no air to other 1/4), lacquer on the alloys tarnishing, creaky tailgate struts, creak from steering wheel cowl. Some of these things are intermittent, but there's always something driving me crazy.
Just doesn't feel as solid as any E-Class I've previously owned, and it'll probably be my last Mercedes, as the local dealers just aren't interested in trying to remedy issues like this.
dimots said:
I have definitely noticed quality dropping on everything S-class and down. I am still in my Shooting Brake CLS 63 AMG-S because I don't want an S-class or AMG GT. I want another fast estate but the E-class interior doesn't do it for me.
The SL is the old man of the current Merc lineup and development seems to be completely under resourced so it doesn't surprise me to hear you've had niggles.
It looks like the new one has finally brought it up to date so I'm keen to see how that turns out.
Agreed, the model dates back to 2014 I think (facelifted at 2016). However I'd have thought that would make it more likely to be good as they've had time to iron out production issues. I'd think the very first of a new model would be riskier. Happy to be educated though, that's just my impression. The SL is the old man of the current Merc lineup and development seems to be completely under resourced so it doesn't surprise me to hear you've had niggles.
It looks like the new one has finally brought it up to date so I'm keen to see how that turns out.
From what I've seen and read about the new one, I'm really not keen. 4 cylinder engines and a canvas roof, and a bit more 'sporty' (car manufacturers seem desperate to please journalists who all think they're racing drivers, rather than the people who actually buy them who, in the main, probably have no knowledge or interest in 'on the limit' handling).
The current model suits me perfectly, it's exceptionally comfortable and refined, excellent ride (handling won't challenge a hard driven 911, but neither will I), plenty quick enough even with the 'base' engine mine has, which is a 3 litre twin turbo V6, sounds great, is a hard top coupe most of the time but turns into a proper convertible.
Hence thinking, maybe buy as near to new as I can get/afford and just keep it for ever (had my last car, a 2009 SLK 280, for 8 years and it was near faultless - far more has gone wrong with this car in 12 months than the entire ownership period of the SLK, which had a six figure mileage when I reluctantly parted with it for this car).
Hence the question, because if it's just going to dish up more of the same, why bother?
However that throws up another problem because there is genuinely no other car that I can think of that suits what I want as well as the SL. Porsches are too sporty (and too expensive), BMW 6 Series isn't an especially elegant car and has the canvas tent, as does a Bentley, which I definitely can't afford! Audi don't do anything at all like it in a convertible, Jaguars aren't especially well finished (and I suspect are even more of a liability long term), what else is there?
I don't think this is new. I have a 2007 S600 and the invoices and warranty work it had between 0 and 6 years old were staggering, and my experience of the things that are dying now it's older strongly suggest that any myth about Mercedes quality is exactly that; a myth.
How does this strike you for the vaccum system on your one hundred thousand pound car:
When I saw this I thought "some bodging monkey has been at it" but no, that's standard.
A closer look so you can see one of the many cable ties used around the engine bay. The best or nothing, eh?
I was doing this work because the ignition system on these dies every 80k, in no small part because they use consumer grade electrolytic capacitors in a component that sits in the valley of the engine, so they eventually explode.
Today I've been dealing with the 4 miles of hoses for the pneumatic seats that are poor quality so start fracturing and splitting at ten years old.
The Americans view all German cars (and most European cars generally) as fragile, overpriced crap and I can't disagree with them. I think they're generally fine for 6 years and two runs through the in-house finance mill, and beyond that they simply don't care. Great to drive when they're working though
How does this strike you for the vaccum system on your one hundred thousand pound car:
When I saw this I thought "some bodging monkey has been at it" but no, that's standard.
A closer look so you can see one of the many cable ties used around the engine bay. The best or nothing, eh?
I was doing this work because the ignition system on these dies every 80k, in no small part because they use consumer grade electrolytic capacitors in a component that sits in the valley of the engine, so they eventually explode.
Today I've been dealing with the 4 miles of hoses for the pneumatic seats that are poor quality so start fracturing and splitting at ten years old.
The Americans view all German cars (and most European cars generally) as fragile, overpriced crap and I can't disagree with them. I think they're generally fine for 6 years and two runs through the in-house finance mill, and beyond that they simply don't care. Great to drive when they're working though
I seem to recall that from mid nineties to about the mid noughties, Mercedes really suffered from bean counters cutting quality thinking that the brand alone was enough to sell anything. They were wrong.
It's reckoned that from the late noughties on, quality was supposed to have been taken seriously again, which certainly felt to be the case for my 2009 SLK, less so, sadly, for the 2016 SL...
It's reckoned that from the late noughties on, quality was supposed to have been taken seriously again, which certainly felt to be the case for my 2009 SLK, less so, sadly, for the 2016 SL...
Ari said:
I seem to recall that from mid nineties to about the mid noughties, Mercedes really suffered from bean counters cutting quality thinking that the brand alone was enough to sell anything. They were wrong.
It's reckoned that from the late noughties on, quality was supposed to have been taken seriously again, which certainly felt to be the case for my 2009 SLK, less so, sadly, for the 2016 SL...
The W221 S-Class like mine was heralded as a return to form after the pitiful W220 series, and by all accounts it is much better. At the very least you didn't see them with streaks of rust down the side while they were still in warranty like the earlier models It's reckoned that from the late noughties on, quality was supposed to have been taken seriously again, which certainly felt to be the case for my 2009 SLK, less so, sadly, for the 2016 SL...
dimots said:
I think I've seen you post this before somewhere and it surprises me as I've had two CLS Shooting Brakes and no issues with either. Just goes to show how it can vary from car to car.
Same, faultless over loads of miles. But that was five years ago and based on a w212 and old engines and tech. New mercs are skin deep tech and chintz - intended to last the length of a warranty, and PCP, so they have steady cash flow.
I had a 2016 SLC from new, had problems with the automatic emergency braking system which kept activating on clear roads, other creaks and niggles, and the final straw was the roof sticking halfway open which meant it couldn't be driven or locked. Dealer was shocking to deal with - service manager had the cheek to tell me he was having to shift other customers bookings to fit my car in and what an imposition this was for him. After this I traded it back to the dealer, and concluded that their reputation is indeed a myth.
Tresco said:
Just for balance I have a 2015 AMG GTS which has been faultless.
They can do it when they want to. It’s just a shame that they don’t extend that level of build through the range. Remember when Merc were known for super-basic standard spec? Everything was optional but they built the base car properly. It would be nice if they could return to that model and build cars that last instead of delivering flashy specced-up crap.
Ari said:
Agreed, the model dates back to 2014 I think (facelifted at 2016). However I'd have thought that would make it more likely to be good as they've had time to iron out production issues. I'd think the very first of a new model would be riskier. Happy to be educated though, that's just my impression.
From what I've seen and read about the new one, I'm really not keen. 4 cylinder engines and a canvas roof, and a bit more 'sporty' (car manufacturers seem desperate to please journalists who all think they're racing drivers, rather than the people who actually buy them who, in the main, probably have no knowledge or interest in 'on the limit' handling).
The current model suits me perfectly, it's exceptionally comfortable and refined, excellent ride (handling won't challenge a hard driven 911, but neither will I), plenty quick enough even with the 'base' engine mine has, which is a 3 litre twin turbo V6, sounds great, is a hard top coupe most of the time but turns into a proper convertible.
Hence thinking, maybe buy as near to new as I can get/afford and just keep it for ever (had my last car, a 2009 SLK 280, for 8 years and it was near faultless - far more has gone wrong with this car in 12 months than the entire ownership period of the SLK, which had a six figure mileage when I reluctantly parted with it for this car).
Hence the question, because if it's just going to dish up more of the same, why bother?
However that throws up another problem because there is genuinely no other car that I can think of that suits what I want as well as the SL. Porsches are too sporty (and too expensive), BMW 6 Series isn't an especially elegant car and has the canvas tent, as does a Bentley, which I definitely can't afford! Audi don't do anything at all like it in a convertible, Jaguars aren't especially well finished (and I suspect are even more of a liability long term), what else is there?
Yes it's a nice car, and it fills a specific niche like no other. Much like my CLS, But I get the impression they've been tinkering with the same model for so long it's got to the point where they're more concerned with making it feel modern than making it all it should be.From what I've seen and read about the new one, I'm really not keen. 4 cylinder engines and a canvas roof, and a bit more 'sporty' (car manufacturers seem desperate to please journalists who all think they're racing drivers, rather than the people who actually buy them who, in the main, probably have no knowledge or interest in 'on the limit' handling).
The current model suits me perfectly, it's exceptionally comfortable and refined, excellent ride (handling won't challenge a hard driven 911, but neither will I), plenty quick enough even with the 'base' engine mine has, which is a 3 litre twin turbo V6, sounds great, is a hard top coupe most of the time but turns into a proper convertible.
Hence thinking, maybe buy as near to new as I can get/afford and just keep it for ever (had my last car, a 2009 SLK 280, for 8 years and it was near faultless - far more has gone wrong with this car in 12 months than the entire ownership period of the SLK, which had a six figure mileage when I reluctantly parted with it for this car).
Hence the question, because if it's just going to dish up more of the same, why bother?
However that throws up another problem because there is genuinely no other car that I can think of that suits what I want as well as the SL. Porsches are too sporty (and too expensive), BMW 6 Series isn't an especially elegant car and has the canvas tent, as does a Bentley, which I definitely can't afford! Audi don't do anything at all like it in a convertible, Jaguars aren't especially well finished (and I suspect are even more of a liability long term), what else is there?
It sounds like you'e in the same position as, me being underwhelmed by the recent stuff and not sure where to go next
The Lexus is probably a good shout. Lovely cars those coupes.
Ari said:
I seem to recall that from mid nineties to about the mid noughties, Mercedes really suffered from bean counters cutting quality thinking that the brand alone was enough to sell anything. They were wrong.
It's reckoned that from the late noughties on, quality was supposed to have been taken seriously again, which certainly felt to be the case for my 2009 SLK, less so, sadly, for the 2016 SL...
They weren't wrong though. The 3 pointed star is everywhere. They just focus on PCP/PCH deals, control the market to keep residuals high and lace the cars in 'high tech electronics" and brushed steel. They can even sell rebadged Renault technology at a premium....It's reckoned that from the late noughties on, quality was supposed to have been taken seriously again, which certainly felt to be the case for my 2009 SLK, less so, sadly, for the 2016 SL...
In Dec 2020 they sold just shy of 7500 cars in the UK! It does seem that age is the issue rather than mileage though.... every Merc taxi I use in Germany the drivers rave about them doing 500k in 3 years with no issues. Go figure...
No question, for years now, MB has offered products that nearly get to Honda build quality, but at 2-3x the price. I used to rate Audi, BMW and MB but the days of them offering high quality products are 10+years ago. I went over to Porsche a few years ago to have Panameras instead of A8s, 7 series S Class and again, they have also lost their way since their 2016/17 facelift. Doesn’t leave many places to go!
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