Usable R129 or 'nicer' r230? - advice please!
Discussion
Afternoon All,
I've grown up around mercs mainly w123s and now mid 30s have come back to where I'm looking for a bit of that old school charm again.
I do a lot of trackdays...(bear with me) but sold my 996.2 GT3 last year as the value just got a bit ridiculous to throw around uninsured so purchased a Caterham 310R. I'm a sadist so I've driven it to Germany and Belgium for trackdays at those famous and I love it...but my wife hates the thing.
I'm not gonna sell the Caterham as I love it for early Sunday blasts but I would like something that is more hospitable for road trips with the other half and general weekend use.
The rationale for an SL is this seems to take the comfort of the S212 e350 CDI that I have but with the open top motoring I've rediscovered a love of with the caterham.
I have a budget of £10kish for purchase which buys me a workable R129 SL320 that will need tidying OR a tasty SL350 R230. Heart says R129 but head says R230 probably one of the last 3.7s to avoid the crank issue on the 3.5s
Any advice? Or am I just in a pipedream and should I give it up?
Thanks
Joseph
I've grown up around mercs mainly w123s and now mid 30s have come back to where I'm looking for a bit of that old school charm again.
I do a lot of trackdays...(bear with me) but sold my 996.2 GT3 last year as the value just got a bit ridiculous to throw around uninsured so purchased a Caterham 310R. I'm a sadist so I've driven it to Germany and Belgium for trackdays at those famous and I love it...but my wife hates the thing.
I'm not gonna sell the Caterham as I love it for early Sunday blasts but I would like something that is more hospitable for road trips with the other half and general weekend use.
The rationale for an SL is this seems to take the comfort of the S212 e350 CDI that I have but with the open top motoring I've rediscovered a love of with the caterham.
I have a budget of £10kish for purchase which buys me a workable R129 SL320 that will need tidying OR a tasty SL350 R230. Heart says R129 but head says R230 probably one of the last 3.7s to avoid the crank issue on the 3.5s
Any advice? Or am I just in a pipedream and should I give it up?
Thanks
Joseph
I did lots of research on this last year as a fun car for my wife and I . I did heaps of internet research and then last year drove 5 cars as a test drive . I over thought it and did not buy any of them. The earlier car felt a bit like an old car to me , 4 speed auto and not a lot of power. The newer cars 3.7 and 3.5. The 3.7 feels lots less powerful once you have driven the 3.5. Of the three the facelift 3.5 is the nicest but Google the engine number range for the timing chain sprocket issue you have highlighted. Last summer the nearest we got was a 2008 car that was £12 k. It remained unsold and was £10k in December.
Above all it's not a very engaging drive , it's smooth and easy to drive , could not be further from your Caterham. I actually decided it's too remote from a driver's car , just boring in the end .
You wait I will buy one yet ..
Above all it's not a very engaging drive , it's smooth and easy to drive , could not be further from your Caterham. I actually decided it's too remote from a driver's car , just boring in the end .
You wait I will buy one yet ..
cliffords said:
I did lots of research on this last year as a fun car for my wife and I . I did heaps of internet research and then last year drove 5 cars as a test drive . I over thought it and did not buy any of them. The earlier car felt a bit like an old car to me , 4 speed auto and not a lot of power. The newer cars 3.7 and 3.5. The 3.7 feels lots less powerful once you have driven the 3.5. Of the three the facelift 3.5 is the nicest but Google the engine number range for the timing chain sprocket issue you have highlighted. Last summer the nearest we got was a 2008 car that was £12 k. It remained unsold and was £10k in December.
Above all it's not a very engaging drive , it's smooth and easy to drive , could not be further from your Caterham. I actually decided it's too remote from a driver's car , just boring in the end .
You wait I will buy one yet ..
The engaging drive isn't what I'm looking for as like you say Caterham takes care of that. For me it's just being able to waft down to the Alps or Tuscany for example. Above all it's not a very engaging drive , it's smooth and easy to drive , could not be further from your Caterham. I actually decided it's too remote from a driver's car , just boring in the end .
You wait I will buy one yet ..
Yeah the 3.5 seems like you need to be Sherlock Holmes on which one you buy.
The r129 for me is as much about how the door shuts etc... I love that reassuring thunk so I'm not looking for speed etc.
Thanks for the tips though! I'm quite cut throat with buying cars so will find one if I do go for it and pull the trigger
cliffords said:
If you are going that far the 3.7 real world is about 23 mpg the 3.5 may see 30 on a autoroute. I drove a 3.5 for almost 60 miles thanks to a really friendly owner . I filled it back up for her afterwards and full to full those 60 miles some on DC was about 18 litres
Thanks pal. I used to have a Cayenne Turbo so I don't mind bad fuel on an occasional use carI owned an R129 SL500 (97 car) for 5 years and have recently bought a 2012 R230 SL500.
I loved the earlier car which was charming, useable, fast enough and comfortable. It did feel old though and the removable roof was tiresome - mine had a glass pano which was comically heavy. Reliability was good with the only issues I had being the temperature sensor for the air con failing and the roof locked itself open which required attention but I can't remember what it was. It was much better when I used it regularly and the roof failed one spring having not been used for several months over winter. It was starting to show rust along the edges of the front wings when I sold it which being an old car is par for the course I guess.
My R230 feels equally well built but is much more up to date, quiet, refined and much faster. The later 7 speed gearbox while not perfect is miles ahead of the 5 speeder in terms of shift quality and extracting the best from the engine. Everything feels well engineered and the ride/ handling balance is better - despite wearing 19" wheels it's comfortable on ABC suspension but doesn't roll about like the earlier car. Having only owned it for 3 weeks I can't comment on reliability yet but if it reflects how the build quality feels I can't see it being an issue beyond consumables providing it's well used and looked after.
To summarise, as much as I enjoyed the R129 I prefer the R230 - I've immediately bonded with it and love the schizophrenic coupe/convertible hard top which with pano feels light and airy even when roof up.
I loved the earlier car which was charming, useable, fast enough and comfortable. It did feel old though and the removable roof was tiresome - mine had a glass pano which was comically heavy. Reliability was good with the only issues I had being the temperature sensor for the air con failing and the roof locked itself open which required attention but I can't remember what it was. It was much better when I used it regularly and the roof failed one spring having not been used for several months over winter. It was starting to show rust along the edges of the front wings when I sold it which being an old car is par for the course I guess.
My R230 feels equally well built but is much more up to date, quiet, refined and much faster. The later 7 speed gearbox while not perfect is miles ahead of the 5 speeder in terms of shift quality and extracting the best from the engine. Everything feels well engineered and the ride/ handling balance is better - despite wearing 19" wheels it's comfortable on ABC suspension but doesn't roll about like the earlier car. Having only owned it for 3 weeks I can't comment on reliability yet but if it reflects how the build quality feels I can't see it being an issue beyond consumables providing it's well used and looked after.
To summarise, as much as I enjoyed the R129 I prefer the R230 - I've immediately bonded with it and love the schizophrenic coupe/convertible hard top which with pano feels light and airy even when roof up.
Venisonpie said:
I owned an R129 SL500 (97 car) for 5 years and have recently bought a 2012 R230 SL500.
I loved the earlier car which was charming, useable, fast enough and comfortable. It did feel old though and the removable roof was tiresome - mine had a glass pano which was comically heavy. Reliability was good with the only issues I had being the temperature sensor for the air con failing and the roof locked itself open which required attention but I can't remember what it was. It was much better when I used it regularly and the roof failed one spring having not been used for several months over winter. It was starting to show rust along the edges of the front wings when I sold it which being an old car is par for the course I guess.
My R230 feels equally well built but is much more up to date, quiet, refined and much faster. The later 7 speed gearbox while not perfect is miles ahead of the 5 speeder in terms of shift quality and extracting the best from the engine. Everything feels well engineered and the ride/ handling balance is better - despite wearing 19" wheels it's comfortable on ABC suspension but doesn't roll about like the earlier car. Having only owned it for 3 weeks I can't comment on reliability yet but if it reflects how the build quality feels I can't see it being an issue beyond consumables providing it's well used and looked after.
To summarise, as much as I enjoyed the R129 I prefer the R230 - I've immediately bonded with it and love the schizophrenic coupe/convertible hard top which with pano feels light and airy even when roof up.
Thanks fella this is a great. I loved the earlier car which was charming, useable, fast enough and comfortable. It did feel old though and the removable roof was tiresome - mine had a glass pano which was comically heavy. Reliability was good with the only issues I had being the temperature sensor for the air con failing and the roof locked itself open which required attention but I can't remember what it was. It was much better when I used it regularly and the roof failed one spring having not been used for several months over winter. It was starting to show rust along the edges of the front wings when I sold it which being an old car is par for the course I guess.
My R230 feels equally well built but is much more up to date, quiet, refined and much faster. The later 7 speed gearbox while not perfect is miles ahead of the 5 speeder in terms of shift quality and extracting the best from the engine. Everything feels well engineered and the ride/ handling balance is better - despite wearing 19" wheels it's comfortable on ABC suspension but doesn't roll about like the earlier car. Having only owned it for 3 weeks I can't comment on reliability yet but if it reflects how the build quality feels I can't see it being an issue beyond consumables providing it's well used and looked after.
To summarise, as much as I enjoyed the R129 I prefer the R230 - I've immediately bonded with it and love the schizophrenic coupe/convertible hard top which with pano feels light and airy even when roof up.
R129 owner here.
I'm very happy with my 1998 SL320 pano roof as a modern classic. I'm doing 2K a year, summer use mainly on a classic car policy.
Bought a very good example to start with, which is the key and will work out more cost effective in the long run.
I'd say it depends on what you want. A younger "drive and forget" type car, or a older modern classic which more involving in the ownership experience. Even with the best cars, there's always small "to do" list. This year I need my front bumper sprayed and the timing cover gasket replaced.
The R129 offers the basics of modern ownership with regards to comforts and safety (ABS and air con etc) , but some charm to let you know its a slightly older car.
If I was to offer some criticism, at 6'3" tall I find the leg room only just enough. Wish I could push and tip the seat back a little further !
I'm very happy with my 1998 SL320 pano roof as a modern classic. I'm doing 2K a year, summer use mainly on a classic car policy.
Bought a very good example to start with, which is the key and will work out more cost effective in the long run.
I'd say it depends on what you want. A younger "drive and forget" type car, or a older modern classic which more involving in the ownership experience. Even with the best cars, there's always small "to do" list. This year I need my front bumper sprayed and the timing cover gasket replaced.
The R129 offers the basics of modern ownership with regards to comforts and safety (ABS and air con etc) , but some charm to let you know its a slightly older car.
If I was to offer some criticism, at 6'3" tall I find the leg room only just enough. Wish I could push and tip the seat back a little further !
I’m 18 months into R230 ownership, a late 2005 SL350.
I was also thinking about R129s but was surprised by what good value R230s were.
It’s taken a while to be sure it’s a keeper but it has really grown on me and does the hard top GT and open top cruiser roles equally well.
As a 3.7 it has the 5 speed auto box which is smooth although not the quickest witted. Suits the laid back nature of the car though. The V6 doesn’t have the torque of the 500 but has plenty of go should you need it.
Outright figures are not that dissimilar, the V6 being lighter due to standard (non ABC) suspension.
Mine came on 18s but I swapped to 17s which ride better and cut down on road noise.
An R129 500SL would definitely appeal, but the R230 is a far more modern car and feels opulent inside and out. Makes any journey something of an occasion. Most 2004MY onwards R230s are galvanised as well, which should bode well for longevity.
Whichever you choose you will have a special car…good luck.
Gratuitous shot of mine:
I was also thinking about R129s but was surprised by what good value R230s were.
It’s taken a while to be sure it’s a keeper but it has really grown on me and does the hard top GT and open top cruiser roles equally well.
As a 3.7 it has the 5 speed auto box which is smooth although not the quickest witted. Suits the laid back nature of the car though. The V6 doesn’t have the torque of the 500 but has plenty of go should you need it.
Outright figures are not that dissimilar, the V6 being lighter due to standard (non ABC) suspension.
Mine came on 18s but I swapped to 17s which ride better and cut down on road noise.
An R129 500SL would definitely appeal, but the R230 is a far more modern car and feels opulent inside and out. Makes any journey something of an occasion. Most 2004MY onwards R230s are galvanised as well, which should bode well for longevity.
Whichever you choose you will have a special car…good luck.
Gratuitous shot of mine:
R230, bonnet, bootlid, door skins and front wings are aluminium.
I have seen references to galvanised in quarters 2 and 3 of 2004 (only), though no knowledge as to whether that's accurate.
If you're considering an R230, you might wish to research Fire Opal Red / Mars Red paint issues, if not already aware.
There are some lovely examples around, ie a one-owner, full MB history, low mileage 500 recently sold (privately) near me. Eventually. It was such a good car that I was tempted, even though I had absolutely no need for it; somebody had a good buy. Likewise a similar one-owner SL55, eventually went for auction. There are, however, some horrors around, as well.
I have seen references to galvanised in quarters 2 and 3 of 2004 (only), though no knowledge as to whether that's accurate.
If you're considering an R230, you might wish to research Fire Opal Red / Mars Red paint issues, if not already aware.
There are some lovely examples around, ie a one-owner, full MB history, low mileage 500 recently sold (privately) near me. Eventually. It was such a good car that I was tempted, even though I had absolutely no need for it; somebody had a good buy. Likewise a similar one-owner SL55, eventually went for auction. There are, however, some horrors around, as well.
I've been looking at SLKs but often SLs pitch up in searches. I think you can get a workable R129 for £7k without too much effort - they seem to remain on sale for ages. I'm not convinced that there is much difference between a £7k and a £15k R129, its more down to each individual car and you will be able to find some good cars for less than the £10k (I think) - obviously SL320 and not the 500s.
Either model is now an old car and will need work, usually expensive "SL prices". The R230 is definitely more complex and with more electronics than the R129.
I've only driven R129s, many years ago. They felt special and an event at the time, didn't buy as it ws too "old fogey" for me back then!
Thanks all loads of good comments here. Ive found a few of both I like the look of. Once the weather clears up going to get and view a few.
Caterham I have for driving dynamics and thrills so the SL.is purely for summer wafting and touring. So not worried at all about driving dynamics
Caterham I have for driving dynamics and thrills so the SL.is purely for summer wafting and touring. So not worried at all about driving dynamics
It sounds like the OP wants / needs the later car.
There’s a gulf of difference between the 129 and the 230. Don’t forget the 129s gestation period was years long, as was its production (12 years or so). The 230 represented another big technological leap, but quality control wasn’t the same as the earlier car. Maybe, with its SBC, ABC etc, it tried to be too clever, who knows.
I would imagine this will blight the 230s slipping easily into being a regarded “classic”, as the niggles and maintenance costs (and electrical maladies) will outweigh the value of the car (AMG cars excepted).
Anyway, both splendid in their own right of course - a steel-sprung early 350 would be a fine buy for a daily driver.
There’s a gulf of difference between the 129 and the 230. Don’t forget the 129s gestation period was years long, as was its production (12 years or so). The 230 represented another big technological leap, but quality control wasn’t the same as the earlier car. Maybe, with its SBC, ABC etc, it tried to be too clever, who knows.
I would imagine this will blight the 230s slipping easily into being a regarded “classic”, as the niggles and maintenance costs (and electrical maladies) will outweigh the value of the car (AMG cars excepted).
Anyway, both splendid in their own right of course - a steel-sprung early 350 would be a fine buy for a daily driver.
MickyveloceClassic said:
It sounds like the OP wants / needs the later car.
There’s a gulf of difference between the 129 and the 230. Don’t forget the 129s gestation period was years long, as was its production (12 years or so). The 230 represented another big technological leap, but quality control wasn’t the same as the earlier car. Maybe, with its SBC, ABC etc, it tried to be too clever, who knows.
I would imagine this will blight the 230s slipping easily into being a regarded “classic”, as the niggles and maintenance costs (and electrical maladies) will outweigh the value of the car (AMG cars excepted).
Anyway, both splendid in their own right of course - a steel-sprung early 350 would be a fine buy for a daily driver.
All cars have weak spots, for example some R129s suffered with deteriorating wiring harnesses.There’s a gulf of difference between the 129 and the 230. Don’t forget the 129s gestation period was years long, as was its production (12 years or so). The 230 represented another big technological leap, but quality control wasn’t the same as the earlier car. Maybe, with its SBC, ABC etc, it tried to be too clever, who knows.
I would imagine this will blight the 230s slipping easily into being a regarded “classic”, as the niggles and maintenance costs (and electrical maladies) will outweigh the value of the car (AMG cars excepted).
Anyway, both splendid in their own right of course - a steel-sprung early 350 would be a fine buy for a daily driver.
As time goes on cost effective fixes become known in any classic car community….ABC & SBC systems are well understood and issues which were originally expensive to remedy can be sorted these days for considerably less cost.
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