Alfa 156 - what to look out for?

Alfa 156 - what to look out for?

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acme

Original Poster:

2,971 posts

197 months

Thursday 6th April 2017
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Apologies if this has been done to death, I've had a look incl SOTW.

We're potentially looking at an Alfa 156, would prefer a 2.5 but few around so suspect it'll be a 2.0, other than the usual old car things to check what should I be looking out for. I've got the impression the two things are cambelt changes (& ancillaries) & suspension resembles chocolate, though at £1-£1.5k changing it isn't worth it.

Any suggestions/advice would be appreciated, cheers.

yellow cento tom

51 posts

97 months

Thursday 6th April 2017
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You've got the two main points covered really. The suspension arms are not too expensive to replace if you find a good specialist or can also be done at home if you are good on the tools. I can tell you living with one with knackered arms soon becomes tiresome so listen out for creaking and knocking. The 2.0 twinspark is the one to go for (if you can't find a v6 that is 😉) and they do drink a bit of oil so check levels regularly. Floorpans can get a bit rusty so have a poke around for anything nasty . Hope this is of help to you

Tom

acme

Original Poster:

2,971 posts

197 months

Thursday 6th April 2017
quotequote all
yellow cento tom said:
You've got the two main points covered really. The suspension arms are not too expensive to replace if you find a good specialist or can also be done at home if you are good on the tools. I can tell you living with one with knackered arms soon becomes tiresome so listen out for creaking and knocking. The 2.0 twinspark is the one to go for (if you can't find a v6 that is ??) and they do drink a bit of oil so check levels regularly. Floorpans can get a bit rusty so have a poke around for anything nasty . Hope this is of help to you

Tom
Many thanks Tom, appreciated. I did wonder re suspension but seemingly the noise will give it away.

You know what they say about not being a proper petrolhead 'til you've owned an Alfa!

DamienB

1,189 posts

218 months

Thursday 6th April 2017
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2.0 TS is a safer bet than a 2.0 JTS. And parts to keep them going generally cheaper. Everybody says avoid Selespeeds, I've got one, no issues, I think any that are still around are probably good ones.

Floor pan rust - difficult to spot as they go from inside out so by the time they're visibly rusty underneath, they're well rotten. Bumper support brackets rust from the bottom up, as do the lower trailing corners of the front wheel arches if they've had a good stone chip hammering. You may see some rust bubbles on the roof along the windscreen edge, nothing to worry about, roof isn't galvanised so stones can chip down to the metal there and easy enough to clean up/repaint.

Suspension squeaks / bangs / clunks - if you're lucky it's the upper front wishbones, if you're unlucky the lower front wishbones (twice the price) and if you're really unlucky it's the front anti-roll bar bushes (sub frame off, 500 quid please).

Thermostat - if it doesn't get up to 90 degrees within a few minutes, probably knackered stat. 40 quid or so, not a difficult job. Don't get a 20 quid one.

Cam belt - 36K/3 years, about 350 quid. If the engine sounds a bit like a diesel from start-up it's the variator, add £100+ to your cambelt change bill.

Tend to emit light steam when cold so don't worry about a bit of white smoke on startup unless it is thick and prolonged.

Check oil level, walk away if low. Ask how much it uses and how often they check it. 1l per 1000 miles is the worst you should expect according to the manual but I wouldn't worry about 1l/800 or so and be delighted with less. Twinsparks like 10w40, JTS 10w60.

Should idle cleanly at 800 or so, up to 1200 if cold until it warms up. If it varies or coughs while idling, walk away. TS engines will rev quite happily to the redline, JTS similar but are a bit more pokey than the TS before 4000. Neither should have any flat spots or feel gutless at any point.

DIY servicing easy enough but expect swearing at the air filter (rusty air box lid screws / broken air box lid), contortionist requirements for pollen filter.

Passenger/rear windows seize through lack of use. Sportwagon tailgate wiper seizes through water getting in but pretty straightforward to replace albeit at least 50 quid for a second hand good motor.

Don't pay any mind to faded badges or paint flaking off the wing mirror mounts, they all do that, no indication of the quality of the rest of the car at all.

At 100K or so you can expect to be looking at needing a new radiator in the near future, maybe clutch.

Brakes are pretty crap as standard, can be improved with decent pads.

Similarly headlights are pretty crap but nightbreakers make a big difference.

If computer display on dash fades to overall red when warm, there's a fix (that I haven't tried) or you can swap it for a facelift edition's display unit which doesn't have the problem.

Facelift interior on can have cruise control added with a plug and play stalk (70 quid or so) if it's missing on the model you get.

Edited by DamienB on Thursday 6th April 18:44

rxe

6,700 posts

102 months

Thursday 6th April 2017
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I've spent most of the day under a 156....

Rust is the biggest problem now. These are anything up to 20 years old, all of them are rusty, the only question is how bad is it. Age is no indicator - the 51 plate I was rebuilding is a hell of a lot less rusty than my 03 plate GTA. Floor pan drain holes will be gone (if not fixed already), front sills are another weak point. The big problem is that you need to go over it with a needle scaler to find it, you can have cars that look superficially OK, but have the integrity of a colander. They rot from the inside out, so it is very hard to spot. If you do get a reasonable one (and my 51 plate is a good 'un), invest in a few gallons of Dinitrol...

Unless it has been well loved, the suspension will be knackered. Original shocks will be sloppy and the spring supports on the rear ones have a nasty habit of looking fine, but being awfully corroded - this drops the spring onto the tyre when you go over a bump which is never helpful. Front wish bones go, but aren't hard to replace. Front ARB bushes make a terrible racket and are a pig to sort. The good news is the parts are cheap-ish for good pattern items (Birth, TRW, Febi or Delphi, avoid anything else). The bad news is that due to corrosion and slightly challenging Italian design, a lot of the jobs require a level of confidence and experience that most amateurs and many garages don't have. If I bought one, I would plan on tossing every rubber suspension component in the bin unless it was recently replaced. Of course, the reward is a very fine handling car when it is sorted.

Engines - I would say V6 every time. Doesn't use much more petrol, more reliable, doesn't use oil and the best soundtrack this side of a £40K car.

Other than that, they're fine. There are some strange failures, but these are well documented on sites like Alfaowner. ECUs are good, electrics are generally good, interiors are good, and if you have a cloth one, then a leather replacement can be picked up for peanuts.

Loads of upgrade potential. My 51 plate is getting Eibach Pro Street Coilovers, Eibach ARBs and a limited slip diff. It's also getting the "hand me down" 305 mm brakes from the GTA. Oh, and a remapped ECU. Its going to make a comedy diesel estate....

Vitorio

4,296 posts

142 months

Friday 7th April 2017
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DamienB said:
Check oil level, walk away if low. Ask how much it uses and how often they check it. 1l per 1000 miles is the worst you should expect according to the manual but I wouldn't worry about 1l/800 or so and be delighted with less. Twinsparks like 10w40, JTS 10w60.
As an addendum, switching to 10w60 is sometimes suggested on oil-drinking TS engines, it will reduce oil consumption, but requires a more agressive driving style to keep it all lubricated nicely.

And yes, high oil consumption (or an owner that doesnt check etc..) is tricky, running a 2.0 TS with oil below the low mark pretty much guarantees lunched big end bearings.

acme

Original Poster:

2,971 posts

197 months

Friday 7th April 2017
quotequote all
Many many thanks for the last couple of in depth posts, really appreciated. I've added these to my items to check and will let you know how we get on this weekend, hopefully viewing a couple tomorrowsmile

Cheers

acme

Original Poster:

2,971 posts

197 months

Friday 7th April 2017
quotequote all
Sorry to show my absolute ignorance, but what's the difference between a TS and a JTS?

Suspect I should hold my head in shame at that question!

Cheers

yellow cento tom

51 posts

97 months

Friday 7th April 2017
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I may be wrong but I think the JTS has a different head than the TS unit and has a lot more sensors and electric crud to meet nee regulstions around 2002.The TS engine is more robust and considerd more favourable of the two.

acme

Original Poster:

2,971 posts

197 months

Monday 10th April 2017
quotequote all
yellow cento tom said:
I may be wrong but I think the JTS has a different head than the TS unit and has a lot more sensors and electric crud to meet nee regulstions around 2002.The TS engine is more robust and considerd more favourable of the two.
Thanks again, so the general advice is to forget the JTS?

Tried to look at two this weekend, one had sold, the other was such a joke we didn't bother, cambelt change, err no, AC working, err, the pumps working.......

yellow cento tom

51 posts

97 months

Monday 10th April 2017
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I would have a TS over a JTS personally,however I have never driven a JTS engine Alfa. Trouble is the 156's are a bit thin on the ground now and decent examples are now in the hands of enthusiasts or get snapped up quickly. Just keep your eyes peeled in all the right places. Auto Italia magazine usually has a couple of decent examples for sale and at least you know it's been in good hands.

Pat H

8,056 posts

255 months

Monday 10th April 2017
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Most 156s are neglected because the cost of a front suspension rebuild and a cam belt change will be more than the car is worth.

I used to have a 156 with the heavy 2.4 diesel lump, which was quick in a straight line, but hated bends and chewed up front suspension at an alarming rate.

By the time I sold it at 100,000 miles, it was on it's third set of top and bottom arms and on it's second front ARB.



I am presently running a 2002 156 2.5 V6. I've owned it for five years and have covered about 60,000 miles in it.

It has just turned 100,000 miles.

It needed top and bottom arms and ARB at 70,000. It is easier to replace the whole ARB than try to fit new bushes. They aren't designed for just the bushes to be replaced.

In any event, it is a good excuse to fit a GTA ARB, which makes a noticeable difference, but will upset the handling if you don't fit a matching one to the rear.

Mine needed a radiator at 90,000 miles and I have just replaced the original exhaust.

It suffered an ECU failure last year, which was an expensive day out, but apart from that it's been reliable.

Front tyres lead a short but cheerful life. Petrol is 28mpg for mixed commuting.


Performance is adequate, but it is the beautifully flexible motor which makes the car. It sounds wonderful and is so tractable, yet spins smoothly to 7000rpm. The cabin is fantastic and the quality of the leather trim is excellent. Rust is increasingly a concern.


To be honest, they are a crap car to try to run on a budget. They need far more maintenance than something like a Focus, which will steer, ride and handle more nicely. For me, it's all about the engine, the charming cabin and the character.

The V6 is a lot more durable than the TS and requires a lot less maintenance. They don't use oil and the timing belt interval can be stretched to 5 years or 50,000 miles, which is a lot more than the 3 years and 36,000 miles for a TS. The V6 also has fewer spark plugs and no variator.

The main advantage to a TS is that they are lighter, steer better and are generally less prone to wearing out the suspension.


I would take the time to find a decent V6. If I was going to settle for a TS, then I would also look at 147s, as you get more choice and can buy a younger car.

Never driven a JTS, but the direct injection and EGR system allegedly make them prone to coking up. Another advantage to looking at 147s is that they weren't cursed with the JTS motor in the same way as the 156 and Phase 3 GTVs.


DamienB

1,189 posts

218 months

Monday 10th April 2017
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Pat H said:
I used to have a 156 with the heavy 2.4 diesel lump, which was quick in a straight line, but hated bends and chewed up front suspension at an alarming rate.
My 2.4 JTD loved bends and went through suspension bushes at the same rate as the two petrol ones I've owned since...

Pat H said:
To be honest, they are a crap car to try to run on a budget. They need far more maintenance than something like a Focus, which will steer, ride and handle more nicely. For me, it's all about the engine, the charming cabin and the character.
A couple of friends drive Focuses. They're barely any cheaper to keep going once the mileage has been piled on them (both have had one each go terminal on them with inexplicable engine faults that no garage could figure out), and while you may say 'crap' I'd say 'challenging' on a budget. You can save a lot of money by getting your hands dirty and learning some basic jobs. And having driven both a well sorted 156 is waaaay more fun never mind looking a million times sexier.

mac96

3,715 posts

142 months

Monday 10th April 2017
quotequote all
To the above lists of regular faults to watch out for I can add another - perhaps you can live with it, but annoying and not easy to track down: slow battery drain, not noticeable if car used daily, but if used only at weekends- battery flat.

And the common cause is a fault in the rev counter. Replacements used to be readily available- not sure if still the case.

Vitorio

4,296 posts

142 months

Tuesday 11th April 2017
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DamienB said:
A couple of friends drive Focuses. They're barely any cheaper to keep going once the mileage has been piled on them (both have had one each go terminal on them with inexplicable engine faults that no garage could figure out), and while you may say 'crap' I'd say 'challenging' on a budget. You can save a lot of money by getting your hands dirty and learning some basic jobs. And having driven both a well sorted 156 is waaaay more fun never mind looking a million times sexier.
yes

do the oil, filters and plugs yourself and other small jobs and you will save a good bunch.

The front upper wishbones and cambelt (and other various engine jobs) might be best left to a good alfa indy, but handling the small stuff yourself takes the sting out of maintenance.

S10GTA

12,645 posts

166 months

Tuesday 11th April 2017
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It's been mentioned many times above, but rust is the big one. They are awful for it. I appreciate they are 20 years old now, but still, in this day and age I'm utterly shocked at how rotten they can be.

acme

Original Poster:

2,971 posts

197 months

Tuesday 11th April 2017
quotequote all
One thing we've noticed is that there seem to be far more 1.8's about, are they TS's only, i.e. not the more troublesome (as is being suggested here) JTS?

Cheers

DamienB

1,189 posts

218 months

Tuesday 11th April 2017
quotequote all
mac96 said:
To the above lists of regular faults to watch out for I can add another - perhaps you can live with it, but annoying and not easy to track down: slow battery drain, not noticeable if car used daily, but if used only at weekends- battery flat.

And the common cause is a fault in the rev counter. Replacements used to be readily available- not sure if still the case.
Not known that to be an issue in the interior/exterior facelift models, just the older ones. Plenty of bits on ebay still.

DamienB

1,189 posts

218 months

Tuesday 11th April 2017
quotequote all
acme said:
One thing we've noticed is that there seem to be far more 1.8's about, are they TS's only, i.e. not the more troublesome (as is being suggested here) JTS?

Cheers

Yes, 1.8 was TS only. A well regarded variant of the engine, not as gutless as the 1.6, no balance belt like the 2.0 so cheaper cam belt changes. But I'd still take a 2.0 in preference. Some say there's little difference in performance between 1.8 and 2.0, I disagree.

rxe

6,700 posts

102 months

Wednesday 12th April 2017
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On the ARBs - if you're replacing one, then polybush the original, don't buy a new one.

The mounts come apart after a few seconds with a 10mm drill, polybushes go right in, and that is the problem solved for the lifetime of the car.

If I'd gone to the trouble of extracting the front ARB, I'd definitely put Eibach or GTA versions in, ideally Eibach which is probably the second best upgrade you can make to the car. Best upgrade is shocks - Alfa seemed to get these wrong from the outset, too soft, leading the car to get unsettled, frequently bottoming out on lumpy roads.

My V6 has Eibach -30 springs, B6 dampers, Eibach ARBs and an LSD. The only cornering limitation in the dry is my ability to stay in the driver's seat. I really need to get it on a (wide) track, as I have no idea how it lets go. Before the upgrades, it just understeered.