I want a Busso-engined Alfa - but which one?
Discussion
ITP said:
GTA's are really into the realm of second cars now. Not because they are not good as daily drivers, they are great (apart from abysmal mpg), but because of the issues mentioned above.
As they are increasing in value and some bits are tricky to source, bumpers, lights etc amongst other things, its a risky game exposing your pride and joy to the daily grind in case some muppet runs into you. You could be off the road for ages, or worse written off, waiting for bits. Then you'd be arguing over value with your insurance.
I put mine (147GTA, low miles, very nice cond) into webuyanycar for a laugh the other day.............1k
(BTW, apparently an ECU solution is available now for 3.2's though....at a price).
Unfortunately this is all too correct.... I had my 147 GTA written off last year. Was my daily. Had her for 11 months. No issues. 49k on the clock. Then Postman Pat smashed into the rear of me whilst sat stationary and that was it. As they are increasing in value and some bits are tricky to source, bumpers, lights etc amongst other things, its a risky game exposing your pride and joy to the daily grind in case some muppet runs into you. You could be off the road for ages, or worse written off, waiting for bits. Then you'd be arguing over value with your insurance.
I put mine (147GTA, low miles, very nice cond) into webuyanycar for a laugh the other day.............1k
(BTW, apparently an ECU solution is available now for 3.2's though....at a price).
Can't get parts, insurance companies don't know what they are worth. First off I was told its worth £1200 then £6000 and I finally got £8000. That was after going through all complaint avenues. £8000 for a 54 plate GTA with less than 50k on the clock! Still makes my blood boil.
GTV V6 soon replaced it but unfortunately had to go as simply wasn't comfy enough now I've an old mans back problems at the age of 25. Was a lovely drive though - more capable than the GTA for sure. But not as special in my eyes. Relatively good value mind! Driven a few GT V6s in my hunt returning to a Busso and will be my next move if I cant resurrect my GTA from its grave as offer much of the comforts with the same soundtrack!
Jack2106 said:
Unfortunately this is all too correct.... I had my 147 GTA written off last year. Was my daily. Had her for 11 months. No issues. 49k on the clock. Then Postman Pat smashed into the rear of me whilst sat stationary and that was it.
Can't get parts, insurance companies don't know what they are worth. First off I was told its worth £1200 then £6000 and I finally got £8000. That was after going through all complaint avenues. £8000 for a 54 plate GTA with less than 50k on the clock! Still makes my blood boil.
GTV V6 soon replaced it but unfortunately had to go as simply wasn't comfy enough now I've an old mans back problems at the age of 25. Was a lovely drive though - more capable than the GTA for sure. But not as special in my eyes. Relatively good value mind! Driven a few GT V6s in my hunt returning to a Busso and will be my next move if I cant resurrect my GTA from its grave as offer much of the comforts with the same soundtrack!
Hmm. This is one of the things on my mind. I'd really like a GTV, but a large percentage of my driving is motorway miles and I've heard mixed reports on the comfort. Can't get parts, insurance companies don't know what they are worth. First off I was told its worth £1200 then £6000 and I finally got £8000. That was after going through all complaint avenues. £8000 for a 54 plate GTA with less than 50k on the clock! Still makes my blood boil.
GTV V6 soon replaced it but unfortunately had to go as simply wasn't comfy enough now I've an old mans back problems at the age of 25. Was a lovely drive though - more capable than the GTA for sure. But not as special in my eyes. Relatively good value mind! Driven a few GT V6s in my hunt returning to a Busso and will be my next move if I cant resurrect my GTA from its grave as offer much of the comforts with the same soundtrack!
Chris71 said:
Hmm. This is one of the things on my mind. I'd really like a GTV, but a large percentage of my driving is motorway miles and I've heard mixed reports on the comfort.
I used mine for a 45/60 min each way commute and it was fine - too little sideways support when tackling roundabouts with gusto. Got stuck in traffic on the way to and from Goodwood once (prob. 3 hrs each way) and I felt that the next day. They suffer from road noise on the motorway if the window alignment is not spot-on. I'd recommend a six speed for motorway cruising.
Headroom can also be a problem depending on build.
Chris Type R said:
Chris71 said:
Hmm. This is one of the things on my mind. I'd really like a GTV, but a large percentage of my driving is motorway miles and I've heard mixed reports on the comfort.
I used mine for a 45/60 min each way commute and it was fine - too little sideways support when tackling roundabouts with gusto. Got stuck in traffic on the way to and from Goodwood once (prob. 3 hrs each way) and I felt that the next day. They suffer from road noise on the motorway if the window alignment is not spot-on. I'd recommend a six speed for motorway cruising.
Headroom can also be a problem depending on build.
I am at least fairly average in height/build, so that shouldn't be an issue unless they're especially 'Italian' in Turin.
I would spend some time looking at a few GTs with a checklist- servicing, paperwork, belt change etc. A lot of GT3.2s fell in to the hands of people who think they are a relatively budget way in to performance and do t look after them well. Be aware of the £3K car. That will need some money spent on it.
Timing was kind to me. I found my GT for sale outside Autolusso. A full engine rebuild, service, cam belt, alloys refurbished,low mileage and an epic colour...I decided I had to have it. The only regret was to chop in a much loved late run 159 1750 TISW to get my hands on it. THE only way to convince the other half of course and now find myself with another 159 SW for daily duties albeit a DERV.
I say go for it! The V6 is just epic once the needle gets past 4000 rpm. Just be aware you'll have to take on a bit of looking after it, frequent oil checks. But the enjoyment of opening things up far out ways the hassle.
Timing was kind to me. I found my GT for sale outside Autolusso. A full engine rebuild, service, cam belt, alloys refurbished,low mileage and an epic colour...I decided I had to have it. The only regret was to chop in a much loved late run 159 1750 TISW to get my hands on it. THE only way to convince the other half of course and now find myself with another 159 SW for daily duties albeit a DERV.
I say go for it! The V6 is just epic once the needle gets past 4000 rpm. Just be aware you'll have to take on a bit of looking after it, frequent oil checks. But the enjoyment of opening things up far out ways the hassle.
waynedear said:
A mate is selling a rather nice blue 155 V6
Got a link? I'd probably go for something newer, to be honest (unless I magically gained Alfetta/75 QV type money) but always good to have a nose.Think I'm leaning towards a 156. We've now moved into 'said house and I'm starting to think I should leave a bit more money aside for that than I originally budgeted, plus I'm coming to terms with how bloody far away I am from everything now and how much time I'm going to spend on the motorway ... so the lower price and added comfort of a good 156 V6 over a cheap GTV probably makes more sense. Probably.
What do people think of this one?
Cam belt needs doing on age, so it's quite strong money, but looks to be a nice one and it's local(ish) to me, whereas the rest of them seem to pop up miles away.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...
As said, that looks a decent car, although I am not well versed in the V6 ( just 1.8TS and more recently a 156JTDM ). As always its the underside and suspension that will determine the worth.
I would be tempted though ! By the way, those look like 17" Teledials but it may be the photos. If so they are quite rare.
I would be tempted though ! By the way, those look like 17" Teledials but it may be the photos. If so they are quite rare.
arguti said:
J886ATV said:
Bit old skool but what about a 75 3.0 v6 (if you can find one)
All of the above fun but with RWD as well
Decent ones are not cheap anymore and relatively rare or tucked away....sold my decent one around 4 years ago for around £2500!All of the above fun but with RWD as well
Doh! So, the owner said there's no rust. The fresh MOT is indeed clear of advisories, but the one that was refused yesterday says:
Reason(s) for failure
Nearside Obligatory mirror insecure (8.1.1)
Rear Exhaust has a major leak of exhaust gases (7.1.2)
Exhaust emissions carbon monoxide content after 2nd fast idle excessive (7.3.D.3)
Offside Front position lamp(s) not working (1.1.A.3b)
Advisory notice item(s)
both front inner wings are quite rusty around the brake pipe brackets as are both front chassis legs but a pass and advise on the day
Dropped him a line to clarify, but sounds like a) it's rusty and b) the seller might have been a touch economical with the truth.
I'm not necessarily looking for a mint 'keeper'. But two grand is a lot to spend on a bangernomics purchase.
Reason(s) for failure
Nearside Obligatory mirror insecure (8.1.1)
Rear Exhaust has a major leak of exhaust gases (7.1.2)
Exhaust emissions carbon monoxide content after 2nd fast idle excessive (7.3.D.3)
Offside Front position lamp(s) not working (1.1.A.3b)
Advisory notice item(s)
both front inner wings are quite rusty around the brake pipe brackets as are both front chassis legs but a pass and advise on the day
Dropped him a line to clarify, but sounds like a) it's rusty and b) the seller might have been a touch economical with the truth.
I'm not necessarily looking for a mint 'keeper'. But two grand is a lot to spend on a bangernomics purchase.
Chris71 said:
Doh! So, the owner said there's no rust. The fresh MOT is indeed clear of advisories, but the one that was refused yesterday says:
Advisory notice item(s)
both front inner wings are quite rusty around the brake pipe brackets as are both front chassis legs but a pass and advise on the day
Dropped him a line to clarify, but sounds like a) it's rusty and b) the seller might have been a touch economical with the truth.
I'm not necessarily looking for a mint 'keeper'. But two grand is a lot to spend on a bangernomics purchase.
I have a 156 GTA.Advisory notice item(s)
both front inner wings are quite rusty around the brake pipe brackets as are both front chassis legs but a pass and advise on the day
Dropped him a line to clarify, but sounds like a) it's rusty and b) the seller might have been a touch economical with the truth.
I'm not necessarily looking for a mint 'keeper'. But two grand is a lot to spend on a bangernomics purchase.
With a 156, it is safe to assume rust in both front wings unless you have concrete evidence that these have been seen to. Also assume rust on both right and left front floors in the absence of evidence that these have been dealt with and with the facelift models there is also likely to be rust between the plate on the back floor and the floor.
None of this is difficult to deal with but budget for it if they have not been attended to. Rather than walk away, if you are happy with the rest of the car, why not use the advisory as a basis for negotiation?
With any (well maintained) Busso you do get a lot of motor for your money
.Peter
psi310398 said:
Chris71 said:
Doh! So, the owner said there's no rust. The fresh MOT is indeed clear of advisories, but the one that was refused yesterday says:
Advisory notice item(s)
both front inner wings are quite rusty around the brake pipe brackets as are both front chassis legs but a pass and advise on the day
Dropped him a line to clarify, but sounds like a) it's rusty and b) the seller might have been a touch economical with the truth.
I'm not necessarily looking for a mint 'keeper'. But two grand is a lot to spend on a bangernomics purchase.
I have a 156 GTA.Advisory notice item(s)
both front inner wings are quite rusty around the brake pipe brackets as are both front chassis legs but a pass and advise on the day
Dropped him a line to clarify, but sounds like a) it's rusty and b) the seller might have been a touch economical with the truth.
I'm not necessarily looking for a mint 'keeper'. But two grand is a lot to spend on a bangernomics purchase.
With a 156, it is safe to assume rust in both front wings unless you have concrete evidence that these have been seen to. Also assume rust on both right and left front floors in the absence of evidence that these have been dealt with and with the facelift models there is also likely to be rust between the plate on the back floor and the floor.
None of this is difficult to deal with but budget for it if they have not been attended to. Rather than walk away, if you are happy with the rest of the car, why not use the advisory as a basis for negotiation?
With any (well maintained) Busso you do get a lot of motor for your money
.Peter
Chris71 said:
I know this is a bit of an unfair question without seeing/driving it, but what do you reckon its worth? I figured the high CO is a lambda sensor at least, the belts are in-date but they don't have long ... so there's a very real chance it could be uneconomical to continue at the next MOT or the one after. I was thinking £1,100. Even that's a big dent if it only lasts 12 months, but it's lowish mileage, so might be worth welding...
Chris,If you are not in the business of diy, an independent Alfa specialist should be able to give you an idea of parts costs and a range of labour costs to deal with the bits, but I'd imagine that you are looking at the wrong side of £1k if all the welding needed to deal with floors, wings is actually required. (You might be able to get some bits second hand.) I'd base your offer on that.
If all goes to sh*t after a year or two, there is a reasonably healthy second hand market in 156 parts (especially ECUs, Teledials, engines, interiors, but everything really) and a good condition Busso engine might fetch £750-1000 by itself.
It might pay for itself
.HTH
Peter
For that sort of money the owner should agree to get it on the ramp of the nearest specialist for inspection.
From the advisory - the "front chassis leg" is a bolt on bit that you can get for £30 a side. Bit of a faff to replace them, I'm doing them today on the 156 estate "Project Dogwagon". There's not a 156 in the land where these are not shagged, the only downside with ignoring it is that the undertray hangs lower and the bottom of the bumpers are not secure.
The brake clip - this could be surface rust, or it could be catastrophic, see the thread I linked to on AO. It is very hard to work it out in an MOT - the underseal is about an inch thick there, and it could be perfect behind, or it could be porous.
Check the front sills near the jacking point. People jack the car on the sills and the rust starts. Check the drain holes at the back - really check them with a screwdriver.
For that sort of cash and claimed condition, the owner should be more than happy to have it on a ramp. If I was selling my V6 (higher mileage, but got LSD, Eibach all round, 2 week old cambelt etc...), I'd be wanting not a lot more than that.
Personally, the one that interests me is the one with the busted cambelt on eBay - 56 plate (less rust) and either fixing it or sticking a replacement engine in is easy. 2.5 bussos are 2 a penny, my local specialist binned a load recently, no demand whatsoever for them. I considered getting one (for free) but it would just sit in the corner of the garage taking up space. 3.2s on the other hand....
'
From the advisory - the "front chassis leg" is a bolt on bit that you can get for £30 a side. Bit of a faff to replace them, I'm doing them today on the 156 estate "Project Dogwagon". There's not a 156 in the land where these are not shagged, the only downside with ignoring it is that the undertray hangs lower and the bottom of the bumpers are not secure.
The brake clip - this could be surface rust, or it could be catastrophic, see the thread I linked to on AO. It is very hard to work it out in an MOT - the underseal is about an inch thick there, and it could be perfect behind, or it could be porous.
Check the front sills near the jacking point. People jack the car on the sills and the rust starts. Check the drain holes at the back - really check them with a screwdriver.
For that sort of cash and claimed condition, the owner should be more than happy to have it on a ramp. If I was selling my V6 (higher mileage, but got LSD, Eibach all round, 2 week old cambelt etc...), I'd be wanting not a lot more than that.
Personally, the one that interests me is the one with the busted cambelt on eBay - 56 plate (less rust) and either fixing it or sticking a replacement engine in is easy. 2.5 bussos are 2 a penny, my local specialist binned a load recently, no demand whatsoever for them. I considered getting one (for free) but it would just sit in the corner of the garage taking up space. 3.2s on the other hand....
'
These are the front 'chassis legs', only held on with a couple of 13mm bolts. Im replacing mine on the 156 im rebuilding only because I want it near perfect. They were around £20 from the german ebay. Turn the steering on full lock and get inside the wheel arch and wiggle the abs mount/brake pad wear sensor mounts on the bottom of the side member to check they dont fall off..then check the rest of the underneath while your at it.
Gassing Station | Alfa Romeo, Fiat & Lancia | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff