Diving into the world of Alfa's
Discussion
So after many suggestions in a 'What car?' thread, none of which included an Alfa, I feel like now's a good time to get an Alfa. I've always loved the look of them and how well equipped they are for the cash and I wanted some opinions on some options..
I've had a look around and at the moment it's between a GT or 159 (I fancy something bigger a more 'grown up' than a 147). My budget is around £3K which looks like it will only net me a 1.9 JTDM 16v Turismo/Lusso or at a push a Cloverleaf. What I really want is a 159 TI, but that's gonna' be a stretch!
What's the 1.9 JTDM engine like? I want something that'll go when it needs to so I'll probably get a map on it after I purchase if I need to. I've heard the 2.0 JTS engines are the worst ones to go for?
I know there's a BlackLine model that's in budget, but ideally in a perfect world, i really want the red.. I'm in now rush so I can afford to wait for the right one.
Cheers!
I've had a look around and at the moment it's between a GT or 159 (I fancy something bigger a more 'grown up' than a 147). My budget is around £3K which looks like it will only net me a 1.9 JTDM 16v Turismo/Lusso or at a push a Cloverleaf. What I really want is a 159 TI, but that's gonna' be a stretch!
What's the 1.9 JTDM engine like? I want something that'll go when it needs to so I'll probably get a map on it after I purchase if I need to. I've heard the 2.0 JTS engines are the worst ones to go for?
I know there's a BlackLine model that's in budget, but ideally in a perfect world, i really want the red.. I'm in now rush so I can afford to wait for the right one.
Cheers!
Had a GT with the 1.9 JTDm for a while - cost me a small fortune, but I think that was more related to how badly the previous owner(s) had looked after it.
The thing to watch out for on the diesel engine is the inlet manifold. It gets caked up with crap and causes the swirl flaps to break off and enter the engine. No so much of an issue on 2006 and earlier cars as they have a metal manifold with plastic flaps, but quite a wide issue on post 2006 cars including the gorgeous blacklines.
Nothing much else to mention, the car wore it's miles well, parts were cheap etc, usually got about 40mpg, and it handled pretty damn well.
They remap well too, they'll go to about 190bhp max. You'll need to get the EGR valve blanked off and mapped out if it's not been done already as it'll reduce the likelihood of the swirl flap issue occuring, but given the age of the cars now I'd factor in an inlet manifold change at the same time as the cambelt (£700).
Gearboxes are as strong as an Ox, clutches and DMFs go at anywhere from 60k, but no more than any other car of its vintage.
Wishbones are a known weak point, driveshafts can also take the brunt of a remap.
The thing to watch out for on the diesel engine is the inlet manifold. It gets caked up with crap and causes the swirl flaps to break off and enter the engine. No so much of an issue on 2006 and earlier cars as they have a metal manifold with plastic flaps, but quite a wide issue on post 2006 cars including the gorgeous blacklines.
Nothing much else to mention, the car wore it's miles well, parts were cheap etc, usually got about 40mpg, and it handled pretty damn well.
They remap well too, they'll go to about 190bhp max. You'll need to get the EGR valve blanked off and mapped out if it's not been done already as it'll reduce the likelihood of the swirl flap issue occuring, but given the age of the cars now I'd factor in an inlet manifold change at the same time as the cambelt (£700).
Gearboxes are as strong as an Ox, clutches and DMFs go at anywhere from 60k, but no more than any other car of its vintage.
Wishbones are a known weak point, driveshafts can also take the brunt of a remap.
Edited by stuart_83 on Tuesday 17th October 10:25
I would go for a 156 JTDM, ideally the later 150 version.
I have one, and it has been remapped to about 190. If you do that, then be prepared to replace the DMF/clutch at some time in the future ( ie sooner rather than later !) as the extra torque ( which is amazing!) tends to wear those items out. As has been said, an EGR blank/remap ( or get the EGR blank with the holes in ) helps a bit.
And, as has been said many times, if you do not know if it has been done, make sure the cambelt/water pump/etc has been done at the recommended interval.
Another 'must' (IMHO of course !), is a decent 4-wheel alignment by someone who knows what they are doing. You may already know this, but the rear tracking is adjustable as well, and when a 156 is set up properly, they are amazing cars to drive.
I have one, and it has been remapped to about 190. If you do that, then be prepared to replace the DMF/clutch at some time in the future ( ie sooner rather than later !) as the extra torque ( which is amazing!) tends to wear those items out. As has been said, an EGR blank/remap ( or get the EGR blank with the holes in ) helps a bit.
And, as has been said many times, if you do not know if it has been done, make sure the cambelt/water pump/etc has been done at the recommended interval.
Another 'must' (IMHO of course !), is a decent 4-wheel alignment by someone who knows what they are doing. You may already know this, but the rear tracking is adjustable as well, and when a 156 is set up properly, they are amazing cars to drive.
Have a 159sw.
suspension keeps going. one cup holder that gets in the way of the cigarette lighter, no way of opening the boot other than prizing your fingers under the lip which is only there because the car wasn't built well enough for it to be straight. random warning light for pre-heating glowplugs, traction control and hillstart have been known to randomly not work. cruise control sometimes doesn't work. the auto lights come on way too late and go straight to main without a period of side lights, but when they got back down they do go to sidelights, auto wipers need torrential rain to work... the list goes on.
frickin love it though. longest I have ever owned a car, by far. there is no alternative I would have out there.
suspension keeps going. one cup holder that gets in the way of the cigarette lighter, no way of opening the boot other than prizing your fingers under the lip which is only there because the car wasn't built well enough for it to be straight. random warning light for pre-heating glowplugs, traction control and hillstart have been known to randomly not work. cruise control sometimes doesn't work. the auto lights come on way too late and go straight to main without a period of side lights, but when they got back down they do go to sidelights, auto wipers need torrential rain to work... the list goes on.
frickin love it though. longest I have ever owned a car, by far. there is no alternative I would have out there.
We have a 159 Ti SW 2.4. It’s a good car, i’ve not bonded with it like my 156s, but I am a Luddite when it comes to cars. It’s a mile muncher, not a sports car. On long motorway drives it is wonderful, you can punt it through the twisty stuff, but you have to work at it. Interior and exterior are fantastic, when washed there is nothing better on the road than a moody black 159. Downsides - when the engine goes wrong, it’s expensive. Very expensive.
GTs,156s, 147s - they’re all fundamentally the same car. So questions of reliability, handling etc etc come down to differences in size and weight of engine.
1.9 GT with a remap is a good car. No DPF, once the EGR has gone, the manifold will last. Make sure you don’t have metal flaps though (can’t remember which variants had these). Throw money at the suspension if you want it to handle - fix the bushes, consider spring, shock & arb upgrades, get it aligned. Q2 or Quaife is very good.
156 - IMO better value than the GT. Check for rust. I have a 10V (2001) I bought for £380 last year. I’ve chucked about £2k in parts at it (i’m a perfectionist, about £800 of that was strictly necessary), and it keeps up in anything other than a drag race with my 3.2 GTA. Certainly consider a cheap old car + massive overhaul as better value that a tired but much more expensive new one.
4 cylinder petrols are fine if looked after. Unfortunately, most have not been looked after.
GTs,156s, 147s - they’re all fundamentally the same car. So questions of reliability, handling etc etc come down to differences in size and weight of engine.
1.9 GT with a remap is a good car. No DPF, once the EGR has gone, the manifold will last. Make sure you don’t have metal flaps though (can’t remember which variants had these). Throw money at the suspension if you want it to handle - fix the bushes, consider spring, shock & arb upgrades, get it aligned. Q2 or Quaife is very good.
156 - IMO better value than the GT. Check for rust. I have a 10V (2001) I bought for £380 last year. I’ve chucked about £2k in parts at it (i’m a perfectionist, about £800 of that was strictly necessary), and it keeps up in anything other than a drag race with my 3.2 GTA. Certainly consider a cheap old car + massive overhaul as better value that a tired but much more expensive new one.
4 cylinder petrols are fine if looked after. Unfortunately, most have not been looked after.
rxe said:
Make sure you don’t have metal flaps though (can’t remember which variants had these).
General rule is anything up to 56 plate had the metal manifold with plastic flaps ... 07 onwards has the plastic manifold with metal flaps, ie the engine destroyers.Which is a shame as the Blackline (and slight facelift) came out in 2007.
All good advice so far but in the interests of maintaining PH standards of nitpicking, you are not diving in to the world of Alfas, sounds more like you are tentatively researching by tipping your smallest toe into the water before jumping in.
"Diving in" is as below picture. Buying unseen on ebay a bright yellow "project car" that needs a bit of TLC.... !
"Diving in" is as below picture. Buying unseen on ebay a bright yellow "project car" that needs a bit of TLC.... !
Sam3773 said:
I've had a look around and at the moment it's between a GT or 159 (I fancy something bigger a more 'grown up' than a 147).
Cheers!
I'd much rather have a GT than a 147 too but just remember they are virtually identical inside. If you get a GT get the most powerful engine you can find as the cars built on that platform aren't light (159/brera platform is even heavier though!)Cheers!
arguti said:
All good advice so far but in the interests of maintaining PH standards of nitpicking, you are not diving in to the world of Alfas, sounds more like you are tentatively researching by tipping your smallest toe into the water before jumping in.
"Diving in" is as below picture. Buying unseen on ebay a bright yellow "project car" that needs a bit of TLC.... !
It was while trying my hardest to buy a similar state integrale to yours (but in black) I ended up buying a £200 916 Spider the owner also had as he just wouldn't sell the Lancia. Eighteen months in and I'm still a year and a couple of thousand pounds away from finishing........."Diving in" is as below picture. Buying unseen on ebay a bright yellow "project car" that needs a bit of TLC.... !
wal 45 said:
It was while trying my hardest to buy a similar state integrale to yours (but in black) I ended up buying a £200 916 Spider the owner also had as he just wouldn't sell the Lancia. Eighteen months in and I'm still a year and a couple of thousand pounds away from finishing.........
Ha! To make it worse, that's my Alfa 155 Q4 on the lift above. flight147z said:
I'd much rather have a GT than a 147 too but just remember they are virtually identical inside. If you get a GT get the most powerful engine you can find as the cars built on that platform aren't light (159/brera platform is even heavier though!)
A 147 can hold 4 adults. A GT will get your passengers moaning.blueveloce said:
They get under your skin...
Ive had my 156v6 for over 8 years and its been far more reliable than the sceptics would have you believe...
+ 1 to the above...I only owned/drove Alfa V6 cars between 1993 and 2014, and in that period, the only issues I suffered were:Ive had my 156v6 for over 8 years and its been far more reliable than the sceptics would have you believe...
- One broken cam-belt (at least partly my fault, as I was pushing the "optimistic" Alfa replacement schedule of the time)
- One expired alternator (90,000 miles / 13 years)
- Rusting front wings on a 156 GTA
- A couple of legible but fading LCD displays
A bit sad to my eyes that Diesels are seen as a desirable choice in an Alfa, but I guess we all have different viewpoints/priorities.
I've had various Alfa's over the years and never experienced the reliability issues that are sometimes talked about. I always ensure that vehicle has a verifiable history, not necessarily main dealer. Receipts proving that quality parts have been used as using cheap substitutes usually turns out not to be cheap.
Its like most marques, if you look after them then they'll invariably look after you. Skimping on parts and/or maintenance is false economy. You may need to pay a premium for a good one as there's usually a good reason why cheap cars are cheap.
Its like most marques, if you look after them then they'll invariably look after you. Skimping on parts and/or maintenance is false economy. You may need to pay a premium for a good one as there's usually a good reason why cheap cars are cheap.
A.G. said:
Bought my 1.9 diesel GT as a daily driver 6 years ago with 60k on the clock. Its now up to 130k.
In its life, it had a battery at 50k, clutch at 75k, injectors at 90k, oil cooler and another battery at 110k. Otherwise just standard service items, brakes, tyres etc,
Wishbones on these seem to be treated as consumable items, lasting 2 years at the very best. I have had to replace both outer door handle hinges, which is a common fault and both checkstraps are clunky but have been like that for ever and I just live with it.
They have a low long nose and after replacing the under-tray on several occasions due to speed bumps, I eventually threw it in the bin about 4 years ago.
Gets a service once a year at the local garage. Its a rattly old diesel lump but returns 40-42mpg driven fairly hard.
I have kept the Alfa longer than I usually would, as it has been a good reliable little car.I have grown attached to it, so will probably keep it until it dies.
I had to do both hinges on my 147 too. The first time I didn't realise you could buy the hinge alone and replaced the whole handle... That was expensive on mine as I had the matte chrome handles as it was a sport!In its life, it had a battery at 50k, clutch at 75k, injectors at 90k, oil cooler and another battery at 110k. Otherwise just standard service items, brakes, tyres etc,
Wishbones on these seem to be treated as consumable items, lasting 2 years at the very best. I have had to replace both outer door handle hinges, which is a common fault and both checkstraps are clunky but have been like that for ever and I just live with it.
They have a low long nose and after replacing the under-tray on several occasions due to speed bumps, I eventually threw it in the bin about 4 years ago.
Gets a service once a year at the local garage. Its a rattly old diesel lump but returns 40-42mpg driven fairly hard.
I have kept the Alfa longer than I usually would, as it has been a good reliable little car.I have grown attached to it, so will probably keep it until it dies.
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