Built vs Bought
Discussion
Hi guys. I thought I would start a new thread. As the title suggests for next track day season I'm planing to build something to and buy something else. 
Before I get into that here's a little catch up last year I did a kind of "Cheap Car Challenge" as part of the charity track day club my friend Frank Hall organised.
I took my £230 eBay Bravo HLX and with some Toyo T1R tyres, brake pads and Coupe Bangle Grinder wheels I posted a time of 1:41.3
Had an Abarth in June setting a 1:34.1
Went a bit bonkers in September and got my best lap time down to 1:24.8
That's enough about that. If you would like to know more my HLX thread is here...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Instead of a cheap car challenge I'm doing a "Built vs Bought". Even though at £250 my Fiat Cinquecento Sporting is a bit of a bargain. This is the build car the bought will be along sometime soon-ish and is destined to be a worthy successor to my mighty Bravo.
Why was the Cinquecento so cheap?
Well she had a sticky brake issue. At first I thought it was the piston getting stuck, but it looks almost brand new. Then I thought it could be the line or knackered master cylinder.
I took the pads out and pressed the pedal to get the piston out as far as possible to inspect the sides and sure enough it was brand new but would not under any method go back.
My only resort was to crack the bleed nipple and push the piston back into the caliper allowing the fluid to flow out that way.
All of a sudden a blob of white stuff (probably grease from where the new piston had been fitted) pustulated out of the nipple like one of those whitehead popping YouTube clips. It gathered into a clump in the bleed line and the piston was slow to retract. I blew the bleed line gear of the obstruction, reassembled the brakes and they now work perfectly.
The grease floating around inside the caliper must have been acting like a caliper anueurysm or one way valve and it was a fluke I cleared it.
Plans are t-jet or N/A 1368cc 16V conversion, brakes, suspension, lightening and all within half the book price of the "Bought" car.
But that's a long way off as yet due to the Winter Equinox celebrations and other stuff and indeed things that are bound to get in the way.
More teething issues as you would expect from a £250 car. The alternator wasn't giving enough voltage to the battery...
...before taking the new looking alternator off I rounded up the usual suspects. Cleaning terminals, the earth strap and making sure the plug to back of the alternator was clean.
That didn't work so it was time to dig around in my shed for the alternator from the Guff Cinquecento.
Now like most modern cars the Cinquecento's engine and ancillaries are pre-assembled and fitted in one. So to get to the alternator adjuster and mounting bolt you need to remove the battery (and put it on charge)...
...the drivers side front wheel, inner wheel arch liner...
...support the front of the car at the rear of the front subframe so you can use the jack to lower the engine enough to remove the mount...
...you will need a 17mm for the big nut, 16mm for the bolt and 13mm for the small nut, then 16mm again to remove the alternator itself.
Someone had fitted the wrong one. This "V" belt pulley alternator is from a Panda or Cinquecento 900 not the 1108cc Sporting.
Once the Guff alternator was fitted and the car put back together...
...she's making a healthy and consistent 14.2V with the headlights, interior fan (on full) and stereo on (Classic FM).
Before I get into that here's a little catch up last year I did a kind of "Cheap Car Challenge" as part of the charity track day club my friend Frank Hall organised.
I took my £230 eBay Bravo HLX and with some Toyo T1R tyres, brake pads and Coupe Bangle Grinder wheels I posted a time of 1:41.3
Had an Abarth in June setting a 1:34.1
Went a bit bonkers in September and got my best lap time down to 1:24.8
That's enough about that. If you would like to know more my HLX thread is here...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Instead of a cheap car challenge I'm doing a "Built vs Bought". Even though at £250 my Fiat Cinquecento Sporting is a bit of a bargain. This is the build car the bought will be along sometime soon-ish and is destined to be a worthy successor to my mighty Bravo.
Why was the Cinquecento so cheap?
Well she had a sticky brake issue. At first I thought it was the piston getting stuck, but it looks almost brand new. Then I thought it could be the line or knackered master cylinder.
I took the pads out and pressed the pedal to get the piston out as far as possible to inspect the sides and sure enough it was brand new but would not under any method go back.
My only resort was to crack the bleed nipple and push the piston back into the caliper allowing the fluid to flow out that way.
All of a sudden a blob of white stuff (probably grease from where the new piston had been fitted) pustulated out of the nipple like one of those whitehead popping YouTube clips. It gathered into a clump in the bleed line and the piston was slow to retract. I blew the bleed line gear of the obstruction, reassembled the brakes and they now work perfectly.
The grease floating around inside the caliper must have been acting like a caliper anueurysm or one way valve and it was a fluke I cleared it.
Plans are t-jet or N/A 1368cc 16V conversion, brakes, suspension, lightening and all within half the book price of the "Bought" car.
But that's a long way off as yet due to the Winter Equinox celebrations and other stuff and indeed things that are bound to get in the way.
More teething issues as you would expect from a £250 car. The alternator wasn't giving enough voltage to the battery...
...before taking the new looking alternator off I rounded up the usual suspects. Cleaning terminals, the earth strap and making sure the plug to back of the alternator was clean.
That didn't work so it was time to dig around in my shed for the alternator from the Guff Cinquecento.
Now like most modern cars the Cinquecento's engine and ancillaries are pre-assembled and fitted in one. So to get to the alternator adjuster and mounting bolt you need to remove the battery (and put it on charge)...
...the drivers side front wheel, inner wheel arch liner...
...support the front of the car at the rear of the front subframe so you can use the jack to lower the engine enough to remove the mount...
...you will need a 17mm for the big nut, 16mm for the bolt and 13mm for the small nut, then 16mm again to remove the alternator itself.
Someone had fitted the wrong one. This "V" belt pulley alternator is from a Panda or Cinquecento 900 not the 1108cc Sporting.
Once the Guff alternator was fitted and the car put back together...
...she's making a healthy and consistent 14.2V with the headlights, interior fan (on full) and stereo on (Classic FM).
Today I finally had chance to give the Cinquecento a wash and proper introduction.
At under 59,000 miles and extensive history file she's on the edge of the classic market but with twelve previous owners (making me lucky thirteen I guess) and no sunroof she's a prime candidate for modifications.
The condition of the seats would suggest the mileage is a little off, typical 90's Fiat with lacquer peel and several shades of Broom Yellow. Also one of the previous owners either had very small feet or a big sense of humor.
As I was at work and had very little to do I went photoshopping.
Don't worry even though the suggestion has been made this will not be "Guff III". Maybe.
Here's a throwback to my £999 Challenge BMW and MGB race car...
...and as the Bravo looked good (in my opinion) in Abarth colours...
At under 59,000 miles and extensive history file she's on the edge of the classic market but with twelve previous owners (making me lucky thirteen I guess) and no sunroof she's a prime candidate for modifications.
The condition of the seats would suggest the mileage is a little off, typical 90's Fiat with lacquer peel and several shades of Broom Yellow. Also one of the previous owners either had very small feet or a big sense of humor.
As I was at work and had very little to do I went photoshopping.
Don't worry even though the suggestion has been made this will not be "Guff III". Maybe.
Here's a throwback to my £999 Challenge BMW and MGB race car...
...and as the Bravo looked good (in my opinion) in Abarth colours...
More healthy and safe things today.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/H4-XENON-SUPER-YELLOW-10...
Yellow higher rated bulbs. The other higher rated H4's I have seen are nearly always blue. If my local MOT guy sees blue bulbs inside the lens it's an instant fail.
I do not like LED bulbs where they can be seen. People who put LED side light, number plate light, indicator bulbs or after market DRL's on older cars because they look cool are the fidget spinner in a vape cloud of the automotive world.
With that in mind my Cinquecento is a tad on the quiet side (at the moment) so a reverse beeper bulb and modern standard tail light, brake light and fog light bulbs are a good idea. We already know the Womlings are out there.
I've taken the reverse beeping bulb and Cre LED fog light bulb from my Bravo and...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-P21-5W-1157-BAY15D-5...
...a pair of these are on their way.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/H4-XENON-SUPER-YELLOW-10...
Yellow higher rated bulbs. The other higher rated H4's I have seen are nearly always blue. If my local MOT guy sees blue bulbs inside the lens it's an instant fail.
I do not like LED bulbs where they can be seen. People who put LED side light, number plate light, indicator bulbs or after market DRL's on older cars because they look cool are the fidget spinner in a vape cloud of the automotive world.
With that in mind my Cinquecento is a tad on the quiet side (at the moment) so a reverse beeper bulb and modern standard tail light, brake light and fog light bulbs are a good idea. We already know the Womlings are out there.
I've taken the reverse beeping bulb and Cre LED fog light bulb from my Bravo and...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-P21-5W-1157-BAY15D-5...
...a pair of these are on their way.
Headlight breakdown and (possible) restoration.
Take a heat gun round the edge of the glass lens until it is malleable enough to remove.
Break the little clips inside the unit holding the reflector in place.
It's the only way but they do leave little studs behind to glue the lens back in later.
If you're single or want to be. remember the lenses are dish washer safe.
Take a heat gun round the edge of the glass lens until it is malleable enough to remove.
Break the little clips inside the unit holding the reflector in place.
It's the only way but they do leave little studs behind to glue the lens back in later.
If you're single or want to be. remember the lenses are dish washer safe.
So the plan was to visit my vinyl cutting guys and get some high temperature chrome stuff cut to these templates.
The high temperature stuff is too thick to bend and the thinner stuff would melt due to the heat of the bulbs. VHT chrome paint isn't all that and good chrome paint can't handle the heat from the bulbs either.
Hmmmmm...
...exhaust repair tape?
Not ideal but a lot better than it was I guess.
The high temperature stuff is too thick to bend and the thinner stuff would melt due to the heat of the bulbs. VHT chrome paint isn't all that and good chrome paint can't handle the heat from the bulbs either.
Hmmmmm...
...exhaust repair tape?
Not ideal but a lot better than it was I guess.
Edited by Liquid Knight on Thursday 7th December 17:14
Now I know some of you are into this sort of thing so before you reassemble the headlight...
...you can put as many LED side lights, auxiliary indicators or even DRL's in as you want.
Make sure they don't get in the way of the main headlight beams and are "E" marked for the MOT.
Confession time. I haven't stuck the lens back to the light unit. To be honest the tape looks crap. Crap is marginally better than terrible and if it were closer and I was desperate I would consider the tape fix for MOT purposes only. The reflector bowels are chrome and copper coated steel so could be re-coated but that would be more expensive and faff than getting a pair of left hand drive lights from my family in Italy and swapping lenses. That's the plan for later.
...you can put as many LED side lights, auxiliary indicators or even DRL's in as you want.
Make sure they don't get in the way of the main headlight beams and are "E" marked for the MOT.
Confession time. I haven't stuck the lens back to the light unit. To be honest the tape looks crap. Crap is marginally better than terrible and if it were closer and I was desperate I would consider the tape fix for MOT purposes only. The reflector bowels are chrome and copper coated steel so could be re-coated but that would be more expensive and faff than getting a pair of left hand drive lights from my family in Italy and swapping lenses. That's the plan for later.
Not much in the way of progress to report. The Cinquecento has done 1,007 miles since I bought the old girl and teething problems aside no further issues.
Those 1,007 have cost me £100 in petrol so far. Warming up on cold days, traffic and everything it still works out...
£100 / £1.19 (per liter) / 5.5 = 15.28 gallons
1,007 miles / 15.28 gallons = 65.9 mpg
Not bad eh?
Worth a celebratory meme.
Those 1,007 have cost me £100 in petrol so far. Warming up on cold days, traffic and everything it still works out...
£100 / £1.19 (per liter) / 5.5 = 15.28 gallons
1,007 miles / 15.28 gallons = 65.9 mpg
Not bad eh?
Worth a celebratory meme.
With this in mind...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8Y7te7boDk
...I did this...
...at work today.
Just waiting for springs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8Y7te7boDk
...I did this...
...at work today.
Just waiting for springs.
Not lowering my Cinquecento.
I took a before shot to see if the car would end up like my photoshopping yesterday.
Opened the box and...
Rule 2: check the part before you take anything apart.
...the springs didn't look right. Sure enough the standard springs are two centimeters wider at the base and one coil less. So instead of being -40mm these would be +80mm if they could be fitted.
So as I had the car on ramps I got horny and fitted my Maserati dual tone. Now the Womlings will be in for a shock if they pull out in front or cut me up.
I took a before shot to see if the car would end up like my photoshopping yesterday.
Opened the box and...
Rule 2: check the part before you take anything apart.
...the springs didn't look right. Sure enough the standard springs are two centimeters wider at the base and one coil less. So instead of being -40mm these would be +80mm if they could be fitted.
So as I had the car on ramps I got horny and fitted my Maserati dual tone. Now the Womlings will be in for a shock if they pull out in front or cut me up.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-punto-convertible/...
Great news!
I have the loom, ecu, inlet manifold and other bits I'll need in the Punto Convertible.
Bad news.
https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/fiat_punto_c...
There are only 68 left? Crap! That's right on the boarder line of being too rare to mess about with.
I guess I will wait to see the cars condition before I decide.
1/ Donor.
2/ Test mule for the 1368 conversion.
3/ Restoration
4/ MOT and sell for a Spring/Summer profit.
Great news!
I have the loom, ecu, inlet manifold and other bits I'll need in the Punto Convertible.
Bad news.
https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/fiat_punto_c...
There are only 68 left? Crap! That's right on the boarder line of being too rare to mess about with.
I guess I will wait to see the cars condition before I decide.
1/ Donor.
2/ Test mule for the 1368 conversion.
3/ Restoration
4/ MOT and sell for a Spring/Summer profit.
I've just had a look at the MOT history and the Punto has been very poorly neglected all it's life.
Donor would be best from the lists, and lists of previous advisories that were left unaddressed.
https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history
Donor would be best from the lists, and lists of previous advisories that were left unaddressed.
https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history
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