Considering a Giulia Veloce - Any Thoughts?

[stuart_83]

Oh, and the car I rejected isn't listed in Alfa stock anywhere, isn't on Autotrader, hasn't gone through the auction house I had to transfer it to, and hasn't been taxed since I gave it up in May.

It was due to be repaired by the supplying dealer before it went to auction, so I guess they've still not been able to rectify the fault.

[G.Fraser]

Crikey, what a story! It's testament to the Giulia that you still think so highly of it after all the hassle you've had, which I appreciate you sharing. I'm pleased you've found happiness with the 4 series though which also sounds fantastic! a 440 is pretty sweet

[stuart_83]

Yep, absolutely cracking car. I'm sure they'll have ironed out all the issues by now.

I nearly accepted the finance company's (FCA finance) offer of a replacement car once they'd accepted the rejection ... After four weeks of stress, sleepless nights and lies from most Alfa's departments it's amazing that I actually considered it for 24 hours. That's how good the car is.

Don't get me wrong, the 440i is lovely and I'm over the moon with it - it's just more of a GT than a lightweight drivers car.

[MarkJS]

stuart_83 said:

Yep, absolutely cracking car. I'm sure they'll have ironed out all the issues by now.

I nearly accepted the finance company's (FCA finance) offer of a replacement car once they'd accepted the rejection ... After four weeks of stress, sleepless nights and lies from most Alfa's departments it's amazing that I actually considered it for 24 hours. That's how good the car is.

Don't get me wrong, the 440i is lovely and I'm over the moon with it - it's just more of a GT than a lightweight drivers car.

I watched your thread about your situation over on Alfa Owner, Stuart (and the treatment you received by certain people who can’t hear a bad word said about the beloved AR).

I think the Giulia is almost a brilliant car but simply not a finished product. The 440i was on my shortlist and I do wish I’d bought another BMW instead of the Alfa Romeo.

As I’ve said, the Alfa Romeo is a cracking drive, but not enough to forgive the many (mainly small) niggles on the list that seems to grow by the week.

I’m glad you’re enjoying the 440i - I’m a little envious.

[stuart_83]

MarkJS said:

I watched your thread about your situation over on Alfa Owner, Stuart (and the treatment you received by certain people who can’t hear a bad word said about the beloved AR).

I think the Giulia is almost a brilliant car but simply not a finished product. The 440i was on my shortlist and I do wish I’d bought another BMW instead of the Alfa Romeo.

As I’ve said, the Alfa Romeo is a cracking drive, but not enough to forgive the many (mainly small) niggles on the list that seems to grow by the week.

I’m glad you’re enjoying the 440i - I’m a little envious.

Yeah, I ended up leaving the forum in the end as people started to get really hostile and I was a bit broken after all was said and done. It was a real low point, especially giving up a car / brand I loved on principle.

I don't think anyone bothered to check when I signed up for AO as the Giulia wasn't my first Alfa ... I had a GT years ago and the other half had a 147 for about 5 years. We even visited the AR museum when we visited Milan a few years back, so I was a 'proper' Alfisti.

They kind of assumed I was a PCP / badge hunter when the truth is the complete opposite. I only wanted a Giulia Veloce and pretty much bought it on the spur of the moment when I visited the dealer. If I hadn't, I'd still be in my Octavia now. I had absolutely no interest in PCP'ing a car, and it was the Alfa that convinced me as I just had to have that car.

Contrary to how the thread may have come across, I was nothing but polite and courteous to everyone I dealt with at AR, both written and verbally, no matter how much they pushed me. And wow they pushed me! I just can't believe the lengths I had to go to just to prove my case. It was a bit intense. Admittedly I really struggled at the time and happy to admit I'm 'on the spectrum' so it made some things really difficult to deal with.

Oh well, over and done with now, and more than happy in the 440i. Again, completely different car and feel, but at the time it was that or back to hot hatches, and the deal on the 440i was too good to turn down.

[MarkJS]

stuart_83 said:

Yeah, I ended up leaving the forum in the end as people started to get really hostile and I was a bit broken after all was said and done. It was a real low point, especially giving up a car / brand I loved on principle.

I don't think anyone bothered to check when I signed up for AO as the Giulia wasn't my first Alfa ... I had a GT years ago and the other half had a 147 for about 5 years. We even visited the AR museum when we visited Milan a few years back, so I was a 'proper' Alfisti.

They kind of assumed I was a PCP / badge hunter when the truth is the complete opposite. I only wanted a Giulia Veloce and pretty much bought it on the spur of the moment when I visited the dealer. If I hadn't, I'd still be in my Octavia now. I had absolutely no interest in PCP'ing a car, and it was the Alfa that convinced me as I just had to have that car.

Contrary to how the thread may have come across, I was nothing but polite and courteous to everyone I dealt with at AR, both written and verbally, no matter how much they pushed me. And wow they pushed me! I just can't believe the lengths I had to go to just to prove my case. It was a bit intense. Admittedly I really struggled at the time and happy to admit I'm 'on the spectrum' so it made some things really difficult to deal with.

Oh well, over and done with now, and more than happy in the 440i. Again, completely different car and feel, but at the time it was that or back to hot hatches, and the deal on the 440i was too good to turn down.

You came across in the best possible way considering the circumstances, Stuart.

And, people judging other people on how they’ve funded a product really is absurd.

Enjoy the 440i safe in the knowledge that you did the right thing.

[G.Fraser]

Absolutely! You seem a thoroughly decent chap! All the best to you mate!

[omniflow]

Not read the thread on AO - because I've not been on AO for about 8 years. I got really fed up of the site - lots and lots of very annoying people on there. I am on my 10th Alfa, and currently have 3, but I don't go near that forum. I'm also extremely sceptical about the love shown for one particular specialist on that forum. If I put my tinfoil hat on, I might even suggest that not all the posts praising them are as genuine as they look.

AlfaBB on the other hand, is a really great site, and a great resource. It's a bit North America focused, but it's still really friendly.

[stuart_83]

omniflow said:

Not read the thread on AO - because I've not been on AO for about 8 years. I got really fed up of the site - lots and lots of very annoying people on there. I am on my 10th Alfa, and currently have 3, but I don't go near that forum. I'm also extremely sceptical about the love shown for one particular specialist on that forum. If I put my tinfoil hat on, I might even suggest that not all the posts praising them are as genuine as they look.

AlfaBB on the other hand, is a really great site, and a great resource. It's a bit North America focused, but it's still really friendly.

Does that specialist happen to be run by a guy who's name rhymes with Fred?

If so, I used them once for my GT. Never again. Rude, arrogant, complete timewaster and horrendously expensive for the work carried out. Plus the way they bigged themselves up and tried to put down their competitors was disgusting. They (the owner) has an incredibly shady past too.

Started using Motormech in Birmingham for the GT - couldn't recommend them more.


Thanks for the kind words guys, it wasn't a nice experience, and having the AO forum essentially turn on me once it was resolved didn't help. Won't be going back there.

Edited by stuart_83 on Monday 6th August 21:35

[ITP]

Such a shame that you are forced out of the car you really want. 440i is not a bad next best though!
If only a significant proportion of alfa dealers actually cared (and alfa themselves for that matter) it should, and probably could, have been an easy fix and you could have still been in a veloce.
I have also experienced idiocy from alfa dealers in the past, but be aware, I have also experienced blatant lies and what can only be described as downright theft from BMW dealers too in the past.

The difference between the two (in my experience, I must add) is that as soon as you walk into BMW they are just looking to lift as much cash from your pocket as possible through fair means or foul, your car will come back better than it went in, but with loads of new parts fitted it didn’t need.
Alfa dealers just don’t want to do anything at all, and when they do your car usually comes back worse than it went in, having not fixed the original problem but also adding more.

Don’t have a BMW anymore but still have an Alfa, but never goes anywhere near a main dealer, plenty of good specialists, so no problem.
I quite fancy a veloce in a couple of years when they’re out of warranty!

[Bilos]

MarkJS said:

stuart_83 said:

Yeah, I ended up leaving the forum in the end as people started to get really hostile and I was a bit broken after all was said and done. It was a real low point, especially giving up a car / brand I loved on principle.

I don't think anyone bothered to check when I signed up for AO as the Giulia wasn't my first Alfa ... I had a GT years ago and the other half had a 147 for about 5 years. We even visited the AR museum when we visited Milan a few years back, so I was a 'proper' Alfisti.

They kind of assumed I was a PCP / badge hunter when the truth is the complete opposite. I only wanted a Giulia Veloce and pretty much bought it on the spur of the moment when I visited the dealer. If I hadn't, I'd still be in my Octavia now. I had absolutely no interest in PCP'ing a car, and it was the Alfa that convinced me as I just had to have that car.

Contrary to how the thread may have come across, I was nothing but polite and courteous to everyone I dealt with at AR, both written and verbally, no matter how much they pushed me. And wow they pushed me! I just can't believe the lengths I had to go to just to prove my case. It was a bit intense. Admittedly I really struggled at the time and happy to admit I'm 'on the spectrum' so it made some things really difficult to deal with.

Oh well, over and done with now, and more than happy in the 440i. Again, completely different car and feel, but at the time it was that or back to hot hatches, and the deal on the 440i was too good to turn down.

You came across in the best possible way considering the circumstances, Stuart.

And, people judging other people on how they’ve funded a product really is absurd.

Enjoy the 440i safe in the knowledge that you did the right thing.

Wow, sounds like a shocking experience; poor show by AR and from AO members.

Agree with your sentiments about the Veloce, cracking car. I was planning on getting a BMW 335d touring (brilliant car) as I wanted another estate and a diesel for economy, but at the last minute I thought I’d test drive the Veloce just for the hell of it. After a 30 minute drive I’d decided that the estate was not necessary and sod the economy.

I’ve had my car since 5th Jan, driven 9800 miles and have no regrets. Well built, I’m not too bothered by the infotainment (it works well enough for me) provides wonderful B road blasts and shows reasonable economy - average over 8500 miles is 35.1 and recent round trip from Essex to Nottingham achieved 46.2.
Dealer has been fine (old school fiat retailer) and luckily i’ve no experience of dealing with AR direct.

I would recommend a Veloce, but from what I’ve Read the experience around it can be hit and miss.

[MarkJS]

ITP said:

Such a shame that you are forced out of the car you really want. 440i is not a bad next best though!
If only a significant proportion of alfa dealers actually cared (and alfa themselves for that matter) it should, and probably could, have been an easy fix and you could have still been in a veloce.
I have also experienced idiocy from alfa dealers in the past, but be aware, I have also experienced blatant lies and what can only be described as downright theft from BMW dealers too in the past.

The difference between the two (in my experience, I must add) is that as soon as you walk into BMW they are just looking to lift as much cash from your pocket as possible through fair means or foul, your car will come back better than it went in, but with loads of new parts fitted it didn’t need.
Alfa dealers just don’t want to do anything at all, and when they do your car usually comes back worse than it went in, having not fixed the original problem but also adding more.

Don’t have a BMW anymore but still have an Alfa, but never goes anywhere near a main dealer, plenty of good specialists, so no problem.
I quite fancy a veloce in a couple of years when they’re out of warranty!

Yes, I’ve had some pretty poor experiences with BMW dealers in the past.

If you have access to a good indy it might be slightly more attractive, but owning a Veloce (or any Giulia) outside the warranty period frightens the life out of me.

I’ll probably move mine on at around 2 years - it would be sooner but that would be even more crazy financially.

Edited by MarkJS on Tuesday 7th August 16:49

[stuart_83]

To be fair the two Alfa Dealers I dealt with were fantastic - it was Alfa Romeo themselves who should hang their heads in shame.

I'll be moving the BMW on after 3 years I think as it's on PCP and I wouldn't want to run it without a warranty. I'll probably just hand it back. This is my first PCP deal so I'll look at my options at the end of the term.

If Alfa have got their act together by 2021 I might consider going back, especially with the 350bhp Giulia Coupe on the horizon.

[MarkJS]

stuart_83 said:

To be fair the two Alfa Dealers I dealt with were fantastic - it was Alfa Romeo themselves who should hang their heads in shame.

I'll be moving the BMW on after 3 years I think as it's on PCP and I wouldn't want to run it without a warranty. I'll probably just hand it back. This is my first PCP deal so I'll look at my options at the end of the term.

If Alfa have got their act together by 2021 I might consider going back, especially with the 350bhp Giulia Coupe on the horizon.

With Sergio Marchionne gone, there is a slight possibility that they won’t exist...

[Speedraser]

Interesting thread. Last week I bought a new Giulia Ti Sport (basically the Veloce in the States). Stromboli Grey, Performance Pack, 5-hole 19" wheels, AWD (it would've taken several months to order RWD here). Early impressions are that it's great! It's my first Alfa. I've always liked them, but they haven't exactly been easy to get in the States for a couple decades... The test drive sold me immediately -- IMO it's SO much better to drive than any of its competitors. I love that it does NOT have an iPad stuck on top of the dash, and that it has knobs and buttons (rather than a touch screen that requires you to look at it -- rather than the road -- to operate). I do wish they offered the manual 'box here, though for an auto the 'box is very good and the alumin(i)um paddles are superb. Btw, BMW lost me the moment they started making cars that fake their engine sound.

[V6Alfisti]

MarkJS said:

Yes, I’ve had some pretty poor experiences with BMW dealers in the past.

If you have access to a good indy it might be slightly more attractive, but owning a Veloce (or any Giulia) outside the warranty period frightens the life out of me.

I’ll probably move mine on at around 2 years - it would be sooner but that would be even more crazy financially.

Edited by MarkJS on Tuesday 7th August 16:49

Not a dig but genuinely interested by the fear of owning the car outside of warranty without a decent indy. Why is that? I thought there were only a few reported cases of glitches with the Giulia and some shocker/lemon type stories you get with all makes.

I have loads of older newer gen Alfa's and they have been pretty easy/cheap to fix. The stuff that does go wrong are run of the mill things like suspension bush wear and tear rather than anything particularly Alfa focussed. Not saying that I would give up my great Alfa indy, but being without one just feels like being in the same situation with any car i.e likely to be overcharged/computer says £x situation.

Also the beauty of Alfa and actually VAG products is the third party cables/applications you can buy to give you dealer level access to your car. i.e http://www.multiecuscan.net/ . I have it but never used it, as frankly the car just works (90k 2004 Alfa GT JTS)

[MarkJS]

V6Alfisti said:

MarkJS said:

Yes, I’ve had some pretty poor experiences with BMW dealers in the past.

If you have access to a good indy it might be slightly more attractive, but owning a Veloce (or any Giulia) outside the warranty period frightens the life out of me.

I’ll probably move mine on at around 2 years - it would be sooner but that would be even more crazy financially.

Edited by MarkJS on Tuesday 7th August 16:49

Not a dig but genuinely interested by the fear of owning the car outside of warranty without a decent indy. Why is that? I thought there were only a few reported cases of glitches with the Giulia and some shocker/lemon type stories you get with all makes.

I have loads of older newer gen Alfa's and they have been pretty easy/cheap to fix. The stuff that does go wrong are run of the mill things like suspension bush wear and tear rather than anything particularly Alfa focussed. Not saying that I would give up my great Alfa indy, but being without one just feels like being in the same situation with any car i.e likely to be overcharged/computer says £x situation.

Also the beauty of Alfa and actually VAG products is the third party cables/applications you can buy to give you dealer level access to your car. i.e http://www.multiecuscan.net/ . I have it but never used it, as frankly the car just works (90k 2004 Alfa GT JTS)

No offence taken. To answer your question I just think it’s a pretty poor quality product in comparison to every other car I’ve owned - and I don’t enjoy saying that (I also made the decision to buy one after all). And I don’t see that situation improving over time & mileage. The current list of issues that I have:

The bonnet will not currently open. I have opened the bonnet a couple of times since collection so I know it used to be ok.
Alarm goes off for no reason probably 3/4 times per week. This is a very common problem if you look at any Alfa Romeo forums – so, when I ordered my car I asked if the alarm could be ‘turned down’ (apparently this can be done) and was told by the dealer not to worry as the factory was now doing this to all cars as a matter of course. Yeah, right.
The Infotainment sometimes pairs with my phone – sometimes it doesn’t. Currently won’t show SMS’s from iPhone 8, but would with iPhone 6s – it’s not an Apple thing either as I have the same problem with my partners Samsung. Our Volvo & previous BMW work/ed faultlessly with any phone paired with them.
Infotainment shuts down intermittently and won’t return to normal unless you leave the car shut down for a period of time – not ideal when you’re relying on the navigation to get you where you need to be - and simply disconcerting when it happens.
(BTW - my car is running the latest version of software & maps etc)
Drivers door sill kick-plate won’t stay stuck down and needs to be re-glued.
Underside of the boot-lid paint (Alfa Red) is transferring to the rubber seals.
Boot-lid is supposed to spring gently open when opening using the remote – the springs aren’t strong enough to make this happen unless the car is parked dead flat.
Nearside door mirror rarely unfolds completely upon ignition so some fiddling has to be done as I need the mirror to get out of my tightly configured drive.
Rear view mirror wobbles.
Fuel gauge and fuel range display bear no relation to how much fuel is actually in the tank. I have also had the fuel range display show - - - miles and then filled the car to find that there was over 2 gallons still in the tank.
There is a rattle from within the dashboard when the car is fired up. I’ve managed to trace this to the blower/fan and if I put the blower in Max setting for about 10 seconds and then return it to a normal speed, the rattle stops. I have to do this every morning.
Rusting wheel weights on 3 out of 4 wheels.
All Trip A & Trip data were simply deleted the other day for no reason.

Now don’t get me wrong - I am well aware that most of the above are very superficial issues (niggles?) and most could also be called first-world problems, but I do struggle to find them acceptable on a £40K+, 3-month-old car that has covered only 3000 miles. Also, my car is not a Monday morning/Friday afternoon build vehicle as there are lots & lots of consistent, more serious issues that affect many owners out there and my car isn’t showing any of those. Thankfully.

In comparison, I did 80k miles over 6 years in my E92 BMW that preceded the Giulia with the only fault being blocked washer jets due to a clogged filter in the fluid reservoir.

[stuart_83]

The main problem I found is actually getting Alfa to fix the car.

When mine went in for the first stretch (10 days) Alfa Italy wouldn't let the dealer touch the car ... they weren't allowed to take the dash off without the car being inspected by one of their "flying doctors" who wasn't available for another two weeks. Even after he'd visited it was a slow daily update between the garage and Alfa Italy, as in :

Alfa Italy : "Try this"
Garage : "Ok, done that"
Wait 24 hours for a response .....
Alfa Italy : "Ok, now try this"

So any problem, no matter how small cannot be fixed in anything considered as a decent timeframe. They're just not set up to support the cars at all.

I ended up rejecting mine based on the fact that I'd had next to no use of it in the first two months of ownership and how poorly Alfa had dealt with the issue. And the fact they couldn't fix it! The actual issue itself just became my get out of jail free card.

So yeah, I'd be terrified of the bills involved in getting a leaking seal or something looked at out of Warranty. I saw the job card for my rattle and it was insane.

[MarkJS]

stuart_83 said:

The main problem I found is actually getting Alfa to fix the car.

When mine went in for the first stretch (10 days) Alfa Italy wouldn't let the dealer touch the car ... they weren't allowed to take the dash off without the car being inspected by one of their "flying doctors" who wasn't available for another two weeks. Even after he'd visited it was a slow daily update between the garage and Alfa Italy, as in :

Alfa Italy : "Try this"
Garage : "Ok, done that"
Wait 24 hours for a response .....
Alfa Italy : "Ok, now try this"

So any problem, no matter how small cannot be fixed in anything considered as a decent timeframe. They're just not set up to support the cars at all.

I ended up rejecting mine based on the fact that I'd had next to no use of it in the first two months of ownership and how poorly Alfa had dealt with the issue. And the fact they couldn't fix it! The actual issue itself just became my get out of jail free card.

So yeah, I'd be terrified of the bills involved in getting a leaking seal or something looked at out of Warranty. I saw the job card for my rattle and it was insane.

Yep, visiting a dealer already fills me with dread. The supplying dealer was very good during the purchase process to be fair, but they are over 90 miles from me. My nearest dealer is Arnold Clark and they were useless when I first enquired about buying a car - let alone the task of looking after it.

It will of course end up there for servicing and/or if something goes pop - I have a feeling that the latter is fairly likely.

[James P]

Apart from the additions to the spec being treated as options, is there any reason why the Veloce ti is so expensive to lease? I’ve been split between the Veloce and the QV but if the ti is circa £130 more a month than the QV it makes no sense.