Would you buy an Integrale?
Discussion
Harris_I said:
On the basis of that one quote alone, I would disregard anything else he says about any car.
Speak to an actual expert in the subject (like Keith at Auto Integrale) and you will find the engines are very strong (homologated to win 6 WRCs!), there are occasional but resolvable electrical glitches and rust is something to monitor pro-actively but not the catastrophe predicted by armchair internet experts.
I've owned 2 integrales, the current one for 13 years, never missed a beat. Daily driven for much of my ownership but now generally for pleasure only.
As for driving experience, up until a couple of months ago, I also owned a 996 GT3 which had been heavily modified for track work. For 17 years of ownership I swore I would never sell it but in the end I had to make a decision to keep one or the other. The Lancia got the nod because it is the best road car I've ever owned: small, wieldy, punchy, grippy and characterful.
Sums it up well Harris.Speak to an actual expert in the subject (like Keith at Auto Integrale) and you will find the engines are very strong (homologated to win 6 WRCs!), there are occasional but resolvable electrical glitches and rust is something to monitor pro-actively but not the catastrophe predicted by armchair internet experts.
I've owned 2 integrales, the current one for 13 years, never missed a beat. Daily driven for much of my ownership but now generally for pleasure only.
As for driving experience, up until a couple of months ago, I also owned a 996 GT3 which had been heavily modified for track work. For 17 years of ownership I swore I would never sell it but in the end I had to make a decision to keep one or the other. The Lancia got the nod because it is the best road car I've ever owned: small, wieldy, punchy, grippy and characterful.
And I'd second Keith at Auto Integrale - he's looked after mine since I bought it, and I'm a big fan. He know the cars inside out, and is always honest about what's needed now, versus what might be needed in future.
My Red 16V came from Walkers in 2009 and I'm rather glad I bought it when prices were more sensible as I sure couldn't afford one now. Does spend much more time sleeping in the garage than it does out of it, although it's had good use over the last 12 months. Servicing hasn't been too much of a headache and it's had a few minor mods over the years. Biggest drama 4 years ago when the head gasket failed (less than 200km after a belt n bearing service 
) and the head was wrecked. Still, there's a decent network out there and these cars can be kept maintained and on the road without too much difficulty and for a reasonable cost.
Dropped mine in at Walkers for some service work recently and they had a few on display/for sale
) and the head was wrecked. Still, there's a decent network out there and these cars can be kept maintained and on the road without too much difficulty and for a reasonable cost.Dropped mine in at Walkers for some service work recently and they had a few on display/for sale
I looked at buying a 16v car in 1992/93, when they were about £11,995 ish for a 1989/1990 car...
Tried a red one, via a dealer, owned by someone in the McAlpine family. I was car mad at the time, but it seemed like a money pit to use as a daily. Cambelt was (I believe) an engine out job for example, certainly was then anyway.
Visited Walkers too, but I just didn't feel confident. More about me than the car I think.
Went down the e30 route instead, then onto an M5 etc, but Integrales are cool cars.
Mika Salo had a grey one, and Jock Clear had a red one in latter years. Rowan Atkinson loved his too. Things like that I remember being influenced by...
Tried a red one, via a dealer, owned by someone in the McAlpine family. I was car mad at the time, but it seemed like a money pit to use as a daily. Cambelt was (I believe) an engine out job for example, certainly was then anyway.
Visited Walkers too, but I just didn't feel confident. More about me than the car I think.
Went down the e30 route instead, then onto an M5 etc, but Integrales are cool cars.
Mika Salo had a grey one, and Jock Clear had a red one in latter years. Rowan Atkinson loved his too. Things like that I remember being influenced by...
BlimeyCharlie said:
I looked at buying a 16v car in 1992/93, when they were about £11,995 ish for a 1989/1990 car...
Tried a red one, via a dealer, owned by someone in the McAlpine family. I was car mad at the time, but it seemed like a money pit to use as a daily. Cambelt was (I believe) an engine out job for example, certainly was then anyway.
Visited Walkers too, but I just didn't feel confident. More about me than the car I think.
Went down the e30 route instead, then onto an M5 etc, but Integrales are cool cars.
Mika Salo had a grey one, and Jock Clear had a red one in latter years. Rowan Atkinson loved his too. Things like that I remember being influenced by...
I went down the E30 route too! 325i sport then E46 M3, I would still love an Integrale though, watching Marku Allen and Juha Kankkunen on grandstand in Martini Integrale's was amazing!Tried a red one, via a dealer, owned by someone in the McAlpine family. I was car mad at the time, but it seemed like a money pit to use as a daily. Cambelt was (I believe) an engine out job for example, certainly was then anyway.
Visited Walkers too, but I just didn't feel confident. More about me than the car I think.
Went down the e30 route instead, then onto an M5 etc, but Integrales are cool cars.
Mika Salo had a grey one, and Jock Clear had a red one in latter years. Rowan Atkinson loved his too. Things like that I remember being influenced by...
daviekiwi said:
BlimeyCharlie said:
I looked at buying a 16v car in 1992/93, when they were about £11,995 ish for a 1989/1990 car...
Tried a red one, via a dealer, owned by someone in the McAlpine family. I was car mad at the time, but it seemed like a money pit to use as a daily. Cambelt was (I believe) an engine out job for example, certainly was then anyway.
Visited Walkers too, but I just didn't feel confident. More about me than the car I think.
Went down the e30 route instead, then onto an M5 etc, but Integrales are cool cars.
Mika Salo had a grey one, and Jock Clear had a red one in latter years. Rowan Atkinson loved his too. Things like that I remember being influenced by...
I went down the E30 route too! 325i sport then E46 M3, I would still love an Integrale though, watching Marku Allen and Juha Kankkunen on grandstand in Martini Integrale's was amazing!Tried a red one, via a dealer, owned by someone in the McAlpine family. I was car mad at the time, but it seemed like a money pit to use as a daily. Cambelt was (I believe) an engine out job for example, certainly was then anyway.
Visited Walkers too, but I just didn't feel confident. More about me than the car I think.
Went down the e30 route instead, then onto an M5 etc, but Integrales are cool cars.
Mika Salo had a grey one, and Jock Clear had a red one in latter years. Rowan Atkinson loved his too. Things like that I remember being influenced by...
I nearly had a 325i sport, bright red, 1991 car, but there was something about it that didn't add up so I passed it up. A grey one looks amazing, can't think of the official colour.
Had an e46 m3 for 2 years, but don't miss it in many ways, felt like a big car, but glad I had one and used as a daily rather than keep it in a garage etc.
I guess Integrales were just too exotic for me, or rather my wallet, the irony being I was earning the most money then than I ever have done since. I was into them, M5's and ultimately 911 Turbos. Then again, F40's were £60k then as well!
Probably an Integrale was the only car I wish I'd have bought that I didn't. Can't remember when I last saw one either. I'm now running a SLK55 as a daily (though don't do that many miles) and just like cars that are different.
If it helps, my '94 giallo Evo 2 has 125k km (around 78k miles), is meticulously maintained, cosmetically very good but not concourse (some faded badges, a couple of tiny stone chips, that kind of minor stuff). Last year I insured for £60k, this year Keith at Auto Integrale advised me it was 80k.
I'm still not sure I believe that, but he's the most credible source I know. I might ask him again when my insurance is due for renewal in the summer in case he happened to be in a funny mood when I asked him.
I'm still not sure I believe that, but he's the most credible source I know. I might ask him again when my insurance is due for renewal in the summer in case he happened to be in a funny mood when I asked him.
Harris_I said:
Oh but he also said he expects the bubble to pop. Which strangely I'm quite happy about as I'd also rather enjoy the car to its fullest.
I sold my 95 Giallo with about 130k kms in October last year for £77,500. I had spent a fair bit on it over the 8 years I owned it but only on routine maintenance and a new coat of paint. It was a lovely car, totally reliable, cool as anything else out there and a pleasure to own but family circumstances meant that when someone asked me if I'd like to sell it to him I took up his offer. I k ow its gone to a good home and he'll love it as much as I did.During the mid 90s I was going through a divorce and had my two young boys every weekend. The Delta was the ideal car and from then I ran many HF4WDs, 8Vs and 16Vs for nearly ten years as daily drivers. Inevitably a friend would offer to buy my driver so I’d source a replacement.
I found the earlier HFs suffered more rust problems but provided that they were looked after mechanically they were reliable. Some had been abused and I bought a couple of Pentii’s Driving Course Cars that we’re a bit battered underneath but get it serviced by someone who knew what they were doing and no problems.
I’d imagine the same applies today.
I found the earlier HFs suffered more rust problems but provided that they were looked after mechanically they were reliable. Some had been abused and I bought a couple of Pentii’s Driving Course Cars that we’re a bit battered underneath but get it serviced by someone who knew what they were doing and no problems.
I’d imagine the same applies today.
It's good that we are all different otherwise the world would be a dull place.
Your garage lists many current and near current high performance cars, many with 500+bhp, e-powertrains and electronic stability systems. They are fabulous cars and no doubt magnificent machines.
But personally, I gave up coveting the latest supercars from around 2010 onwards. I want to enjoy cars at all speeds and place a high premium on feel (esp steering), feedback (primary controls), throttle response and cornering attitude, noise and something indefinable and subjective: character. That's why (for me) the integrale is possibly the greatest driver's car for the road ever built.
Your garage lists many current and near current high performance cars, many with 500+bhp, e-powertrains and electronic stability systems. They are fabulous cars and no doubt magnificent machines.
But personally, I gave up coveting the latest supercars from around 2010 onwards. I want to enjoy cars at all speeds and place a high premium on feel (esp steering), feedback (primary controls), throttle response and cornering attitude, noise and something indefinable and subjective: character. That's why (for me) the integrale is possibly the greatest driver's car for the road ever built.
Harris_I said:
It's good that we are all different otherwise the world would be a dull place.
Your garage lists many current and near current high performance cars, many with 500+bhp, e-powertrains and electronic stability systems. They are fabulous cars and no doubt magnificent machines.
But personally, I gave up coveting the latest supercars from around 2010 onwards. I want to enjoy cars at all speeds and place a high premium on feel (esp steering), feedback (primary controls), throttle response and cornering attitude, noise and something indefinable and subjective: character. That's why (for me) the integrale is possibly the greatest driver's car for the road ever built.
Totally, In my case its more that i’ve been there though Your garage lists many current and near current high performance cars, many with 500+bhp, e-powertrains and electronic stability systems. They are fabulous cars and no doubt magnificent machines.
But personally, I gave up coveting the latest supercars from around 2010 onwards. I want to enjoy cars at all speeds and place a high premium on feel (esp steering), feedback (primary controls), throttle response and cornering attitude, noise and something indefinable and subjective: character. That's why (for me) the integrale is possibly the greatest driver's car for the road ever built.
I think i owned 5 in total, just not very impressive vs R5 T1, e30 m3 or even the 190 cosworth imo and certainly not at the money they demand now, even at 10k 10 years ago they were borderline.Current fleet i love for different reasons that an intergrale can never give, i love speed & theatre, i do tours and track days so they get used properly, they dont trawl round towns being reved, certainly wouldnt bother with them in the traffic jam that is the uk, you need to be in the right place to use these cars
I dont list all my current cars or past owned, but i do have a list
a very wide range of taste in this camp, over many years.Volkswagen Golf 16v GTI GTI 16v
Subaru Impreza STi 4
Peugeot 405 Mi16
Peugeot 205 GTI 1.6
Mazda B2000 Mini Truck convertible
Mazda 323 4x4 turbo 4x4 turbo ralye
TVR Chimaera 4.0
Toyota supra 3.0 Injection
Mazda RX7 Turbo Cabriolet
Audi a3 sport quattro
Mercedes C36 AMG
TVR chimaera 4.0
Mazda RX7 twin turbo 3RD gemeration
Yamaha R1 '03'
Alpine GTA v6 turbo
Lotus esprit 350
BMW R1200 RT
Chevrolet Corvette C5 convertible
Dodge Ram SRT10 quad cab
KTM superduke r
Harley Davidson V-Rod
Suzuki GSXR1000 K3
Honda CBR600 R8
Maserati GranTurismo S 4.7
Aprilia Tuono R
BMW 1200 advenure
Audi S4
Harley Davidson Road King Custom
TVR Grifith 500
Jaguar XJ Portfolio
TVR Chimaera 5.0
Harley Davidson fatboy
Land Rover Range Rover Vogue
Kawasaki ZX7R
MINI Cooper S
E30 m3
Mercedes SL55 55
Chevrolet Corvette C6
Lancia Integrale Evo II
Westfield Seight 3.9 RV8
Ford F150 Lightning
Maserati 4200 spyder Cambio
Mazda RX7 elford turbo Elford Turbo
BMW M5 e39
Ford Falcon XR6 Ute / truck
Harris_I said:
As for driving experience, up until a couple of months ago, I also owned a 996 GT3 which had been heavily modified for track work. For 17 years of ownership I swore I would never sell it but in the end I had to make a decision to keep one or the other. The Lancia got the nod because it is the best road car I've ever owned: small, wieldy, punchy, grippy and characterful.
A great tribute to a great car, car worship at its bestSubjective question but how are prices holding up? They've climbed rapidly over the last few years, are they still climbing, static now or heading for a bit of a fall?
Having just sold a Caterham and possibly selling an 80's Lotus, I may just about have funds for an 8V or 16V but don't want to buy the first one that comes up if there's no rush price wise. Are the prices being asked being achieved?
I'd appreciate your insight.
Thanks
Having just sold a Caterham and possibly selling an 80's Lotus, I may just about have funds for an 8V or 16V but don't want to buy the first one that comes up if there's no rush price wise. Are the prices being asked being achieved?
I'd appreciate your insight.
Thanks
If I was buying an Integrale now I’d first speak to Walkers Garage and other specialists and also look into the Lancia Motor Club to see if their are any private ones. I’d be careful with non specialist cars because there are still cars out there that haven’t been looked after properly.
Buying a cheap Integrale can be an expensive experience.
Buying a cheap Integrale can be an expensive experience.
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