Aston Vs Jag - are we slipping back?
Discussion
lady topaz said:
Since leaving the fold and running the XF, I am being bombarded with invites to the F Type launch and today was invited to go to a Jaguar Driving experience day up in Warwickshire, driving the XKR and XFR.
They certainly want to nail my bum firmly into the Jag camp.
I keep telling the Jag guys that as much as I admire their range, I now have Aston running through my veins.
Although I am not ready to return to a two seater, I priced up the F Type I would go for if in the market, and it came out at over £86,000.
For me this is a non starter when I could get back into a low mileage V12V for the same money.
Yes there are a lot of everyday features that modern Jaguars have, decent sat nav for one and electronic handbrake, exterior cameras etc. To me the lack of some of these features makes the Aston a more individual and desireable prospect.
Di
You are not comparing like with like.They certainly want to nail my bum firmly into the Jag camp.
I keep telling the Jag guys that as much as I admire their range, I now have Aston running through my veins.
Although I am not ready to return to a two seater, I priced up the F Type I would go for if in the market, and it came out at over £86,000.
For me this is a non starter when I could get back into a low mileage V12V for the same money.
Yes there are a lot of everyday features that modern Jaguars have, decent sat nav for one and electronic handbrake, exterior cameras etc. To me the lack of some of these features makes the Aston a more individual and desireable prospect.
Di
Spec a brand new V12 to your liking and you'll not, I wager, see much hangs out of 140-150k. Dealer spec and/or used cars are not a true comparison.
Now, a 60k difference?
When the V8 Vantage was first touted, it was meant to start at 75-80k. I think base price was 86k 5 or 6 years ago. With extras you were looking at 93-100k.
I wasn't doing a comparison, I was saying for me personally, as undoubtedly fine a car the F Type will be, personally I would rather be back in a V12V.
For me there is nothing like the AM brand.
When I left TVR I had a brand new top spec 335i convertible. A far superior car in a lot of respects. After 6 months it left me cold and we went for the V8V.
Loved that car and the V12 more.
With me it is heart over head. There are many superior cars, but none I want more than AM.
Di
For me there is nothing like the AM brand.
When I left TVR I had a brand new top spec 335i convertible. A far superior car in a lot of respects. After 6 months it left me cold and we went for the V8V.
Loved that car and the V12 more.
With me it is heart over head. There are many superior cars, but none I want more than AM.
Di
Interesting I was very recently talking to a serial Jaguar and Aston owner who's very well connected to both brands. He's just sent his latest Aston back and bought an XKR-s which he thinks is a better car in almost every respect.
He still has two Astons and loves his V12 (not sure what model) but quality wise he says the Astons have squeaks,rattles and minor issues that the Jags don't.
He's also had some inexcusable quality issues on his new Astons that frankly I was amazed to hear.
Point is he still loves Astons but he's not blind to their failings.
Personally I think Aston can't survive much longer in the present ownership.
He still has two Astons and loves his V12 (not sure what model) but quality wise he says the Astons have squeaks,rattles and minor issues that the Jags don't.
He's also had some inexcusable quality issues on his new Astons that frankly I was amazed to hear.
Point is he still loves Astons but he's not blind to their failings.
Personally I think Aston can't survive much longer in the present ownership.
^^^ It's difficult to know how much attention to pay to individual stories, unless a pattern emerges.
So this serial Aston/Jag buyer has rattles in his Astons, but not his Jags? Well, my XFR has the dreaded sunroof/headliner rattle (a well-documented issue, not anecdotal), and the dealership seems incapable of getting rid of it, despite multiple attempts.
That being said, my V12V hatch has started to creak over bumps, and my V8V did the same.
It's my impression that both marques have their known issues (as do most cars), and I wouldn't put Jag above Aston for build quality. Are Jags more uniformly built? I suppose so, as they are truly mass-produced. But there are many aspects of my XFR that feel more flimsy and cheap, certainly less robust and of poorer materials than the Aston.
So this serial Aston/Jag buyer has rattles in his Astons, but not his Jags? Well, my XFR has the dreaded sunroof/headliner rattle (a well-documented issue, not anecdotal), and the dealership seems incapable of getting rid of it, despite multiple attempts.
That being said, my V12V hatch has started to creak over bumps, and my V8V did the same.
It's my impression that both marques have their known issues (as do most cars), and I wouldn't put Jag above Aston for build quality. Are Jags more uniformly built? I suppose so, as they are truly mass-produced. But there are many aspects of my XFR that feel more flimsy and cheap, certainly less robust and of poorer materials than the Aston.
yeti said:
I agree. But you need 6000 people a year, every year to think exactly the same. That's becoming increasingly difficult.
Not so sureThat 6000 is across the range and around the world
Aston sells on the "experience" not the technology or performance
Good job to as they are miles behind on those two!
I still can't think what I would replace mine with!
mikey k said:
Not so sure
That 6000 is across the range and around the world
Aston sells on the "experience" not the technology or performance
Good job to as they are miles behind on those two!
I still can't think what I would replace mine with!
And of course a lot depends upon that "experience", not just personal but that of others too because some people are swayed by reviews and more importantly the experience of their friends, colleagues and relations.That 6000 is across the range and around the world
Aston sells on the "experience" not the technology or performance
Good job to as they are miles behind on those two!
I still can't think what I would replace mine with!
Mine is my first Aston, and whilst I love my car my experience has been marred by a succession of minor issues. If we were playing "known issue" bingo, I would have shouted house long ago! Whilst they have all been put right each has required me giving up the car for one or more days, very annoying.. They have all been fit and finish issues, but in my view easily designed out of the assembly process. It is a disgrace that issues identified in the early build cars still exist eg paintwork around door handles. Rattles in dashboards and sat navs can be eliminated at source. Supply chain can be brought into line. I read on another thread that AM set side £5000 per car for warranty. If true then I feel they must be treating that as a target where as long as the figure is not breached then everything is fine in their eyes. Sadly, not in owners who have to suffer this approach ( if that's what they do of course!).
Whilst yes, they have come along way since 2005, there is always room for improvement and many people can accept other differences if cars have a great reputation for quality. But a combination of poor quality reputation togther with those other differences will mean many people will just pick another marque. So for me, any forward plan must have a focus on quality of finish and build too. Known issues are not acceptable over time, even if they are just fit and finish. And they don't need a strategic partner to achieve this, just the management will to make it happen.
mph said:
Interesting I was very recently talking to a serial Jaguar and Aston owner who's very well connected to both brands. He's just sent his latest Aston back and bought an XKR-s which he thinks is a better car in almost every respect.
He still has two Astons and loves his V12 (not sure what model) but quality wise he says the Astons have squeaks,rattles and minor issues that the Jags don't.
He's also had some inexcusable quality issues on his new Astons that frankly I was amazed to hear.
Point is he still loves Astons but he's not blind to their failings.
Personally I think Aston can't survive much longer in the present ownership.
InterestingHe still has two Astons and loves his V12 (not sure what model) but quality wise he says the Astons have squeaks,rattles and minor issues that the Jags don't.
He's also had some inexcusable quality issues on his new Astons that frankly I was amazed to hear.
Point is he still loves Astons but he's not blind to their failings.
Personally I think Aston can't survive much longer in the present ownership.
I did the exact opposite knowing Astons have niggles from new
As per my point earlier jags are technically miles ahead of Aston but just don't give the "experience"
steveatesh said:
And of course a lot depends upon that "experience", not just personal but that of others too because some people are swayed by w and more importantly the experience of their friends, colleagues and relations.
Mine is my first Aston, and whilst I love my car my experience has been marred by a succession of minor issues. If we were playing "known issue" bingo, I would have shouted house long ago! Whilst they have all been put right each has required me giving up the car for one or more days, very annoying.. They have all been fit and finish issues, but in my view easily designed out of the assembly process. It is a disgrace that issues identified in the early build cars still exist eg paintwork around door handles. Rattles in dashboards and sat navs can be eliminated at source. Supply chain can be brought into line. I read on another thread that AM set side £5000 per car for warranty. If true then I feel they must be treating that as a target where as long as the figure is not breached then everything is fine in their eyes. Sadly, not in owners who have to suffer this approach ( if that's what they do of course!).
Whilst yes, they have come along way since 2005, there is always room for improvement and many people can accept other differences if cars have a great reputation for quality. But a combination of poor quality reputation togther with those other differences will mean many people will just pick another marque. So for me, any forward plan must have a focus on quality of finish and build too. Known issues are not acceptable over time, even if they are just fit and finish. And they don't need a strategic partner to achieve this, just the management will to make it happen.
I don't disagreeMine is my first Aston, and whilst I love my car my experience has been marred by a succession of minor issues. If we were playing "known issue" bingo, I would have shouted house long ago! Whilst they have all been put right each has required me giving up the car for one or more days, very annoying.. They have all been fit and finish issues, but in my view easily designed out of the assembly process. It is a disgrace that issues identified in the early build cars still exist eg paintwork around door handles. Rattles in dashboards and sat navs can be eliminated at source. Supply chain can be brought into line. I read on another thread that AM set side £5000 per car for warranty. If true then I feel they must be treating that as a target where as long as the figure is not breached then everything is fine in their eyes. Sadly, not in owners who have to suffer this approach ( if that's what they do of course!).
Whilst yes, they have come along way since 2005, there is always room for improvement and many people can accept other differences if cars have a great reputation for quality. But a combination of poor quality reputation togther with those other differences will mean many people will just pick another marque. So for me, any forward plan must have a focus on quality of finish and build too. Known issues are not acceptable over time, even if they are just fit and finish. And they don't need a strategic partner to achieve this, just the management will to make it happen.
Both my roadster have had a LONG list of niggles
The first one cost the factory over £15k in warranty claims
Second is heading that way as well
But I'm resigned to that and will end up with a well sorted car
I think the answer is very simple really. A 'good' car is a car that does exactly what YOU want
it to do. To some that may be the ability to get 5 kids and the dog in, to others it must be able
to do 180mph, and to some it may well be just the way it looks or makes you feel. A 'good' car is one that fulfils your expectations of a car. To some of my farmer mates unless it can go across a ploughed
field it is not a good car, to them a Ferrari is not a good car or even of any use at all.
it to do. To some that may be the ability to get 5 kids and the dog in, to others it must be able
to do 180mph, and to some it may well be just the way it looks or makes you feel. A 'good' car is one that fulfils your expectations of a car. To some of my farmer mates unless it can go across a ploughed
field it is not a good car, to them a Ferrari is not a good car or even of any use at all.
verminator said:
I think the answer is very simple really. A 'good' car is a car that does exactly what YOU want
it to do. To some that may be the ability to get 5 kids and the dog in, to others it must be able
to do 180mph, and to some it may well be just the way it looks or makes you feel. A 'good' car is one that fulfils your expectations of a car. To some of my farmer mates unless it can go across a ploughed
field it is not a good car, to them a Ferrari is not a good car or even of any use at all.
Then my 2005 DB9 must be a good car as it does everything I want and makes me feel good. It may be an early example, but it is very well sorted with no technical issues and no rattles, despite the appalling state of our local roads. I had two XF's before the DB9 and both suffered from quality control problems and too many annoying rattles. The biggest problem with owning an Aston Martin is what the hell can follow it!it to do. To some that may be the ability to get 5 kids and the dog in, to others it must be able
to do 180mph, and to some it may well be just the way it looks or makes you feel. A 'good' car is one that fulfils your expectations of a car. To some of my farmer mates unless it can go across a ploughed
field it is not a good car, to them a Ferrari is not a good car or even of any use at all.
mikey k said:
I don't disagree
Both my roadster have had a LONG list of niggles
The first one cost the factory over £15k in warranty claims
Second is heading that way as well
But I'm resigned to that and will end up with a well sorted car
Wow sounds worse than mine! But again a perfect example of stuff that AM can do right now to improve reputation AND make cars more efficiently a a result when considered end to end. Both my roadster have had a LONG list of niggles
The first one cost the factory over £15k in warranty claims
Second is heading that way as well
But I'm resigned to that and will end up with a well sorted car
yeti said:
At 50 grand for my second hand DB9 - nothing.
At 200 grand for a 310quish... ohh, suddenly there are lot of choices
1yr old 458 Spider probably
There's only a couple of cars I'd consider at £200k, and it wouldn't include the new Vanquish. It would be the MP4-12C Spider or the SLS Roadster At 200 grand for a 310quish... ohh, suddenly there are lot of choices
1yr old 458 Spider probably
But I'd still have a new DB9 volante over them!
I agree with the comment above that a good car is one that suits the requirements of the owner.
I looked at a whole load of cars to replac my Boxster with over the last month & tried a variety. I thought I'd fall in love with the Aston having lusted after one for ages, but it left me cold as it was so heavy, impractical and visibility was poor. I preferred the R8 in fact which was far easier to drive and in my opinion, in the metal, better looking. I know these views won't be commonly held especially on an Aston forum! But as I'd be the one driving it every day it matters.
In the end the best car for me was the 997 C4S because for what I was spending, it was the best all round car considering I drive it every day on motorways & often in traffic. For my pricepoint, the Vantage couldn't even look at the Jag equivalent - 4.3 2007 Vantage vs 5.0 2010 XKR. The XKR could nearly keep up with a 997 turbo and wouldn't kill me with running costs, the technology onboard wiped the floor with the Aston - adaptive cruise, DAB radio, touchscreen satnav, air cooled seats - these matter in a daily driver & make driving so much more pleasent. However if it was a toy for the weekend as a lot of Vantages are, that was the one that felt like the most special event to drive along with it's quirky rev counter, unreadable speedometer, and surrounded by a symphony of buzzes and rattles. It was a main dealer car btw.
I looked at a whole load of cars to replac my Boxster with over the last month & tried a variety. I thought I'd fall in love with the Aston having lusted after one for ages, but it left me cold as it was so heavy, impractical and visibility was poor. I preferred the R8 in fact which was far easier to drive and in my opinion, in the metal, better looking. I know these views won't be commonly held especially on an Aston forum! But as I'd be the one driving it every day it matters.
In the end the best car for me was the 997 C4S because for what I was spending, it was the best all round car considering I drive it every day on motorways & often in traffic. For my pricepoint, the Vantage couldn't even look at the Jag equivalent - 4.3 2007 Vantage vs 5.0 2010 XKR. The XKR could nearly keep up with a 997 turbo and wouldn't kill me with running costs, the technology onboard wiped the floor with the Aston - adaptive cruise, DAB radio, touchscreen satnav, air cooled seats - these matter in a daily driver & make driving so much more pleasent. However if it was a toy for the weekend as a lot of Vantages are, that was the one that felt like the most special event to drive along with it's quirky rev counter, unreadable speedometer, and surrounded by a symphony of buzzes and rattles. It was a main dealer car btw.
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