BMW Thefts

Author
Discussion

anonymous-user

38 months

Friday 20th April 2012
quotequote all
Listen chaps, it's easy! Just remove one of the CAN bus wires from your J1962 OBD socket. The wires push backwards out of the plastic connector by pushing down a little locking tab. Then just tape said wire back onto the loom with a bit of electrical insulating tape.


Said thief is not going to be spending time with his head upsidedown in your footwells trying to find out why his tool can get coms with your car for any length of time. If your dealler needs to communicate with the car, they can just spend a min putting the contact back into place:



Remove either pin 6 (CAN low) or 14 (CAN high)


Devil2575

13,400 posts

172 months

Friday 20th April 2012
quotequote all
giggity said:
The problem is China are making cheap clones ...
How many times do we hear this. I've read it three time today on PH alone. How about doing something about the huge wave of cheap ripoffs/clones and copies coming out of China.


Contigo

3,085 posts

193 months

Friday 20th April 2012
quotequote all
Max_Torque said:
Listen chaps, it's easy! Just remove one of the CAN bus wires from your J1962 OBD socket. The wires push backwards out of the plastic connector by pushing down a little locking tab. Then just tape said wire back onto the loom with a bit of electrical insulating tape.


Said thief is not going to be spending time with his head upsidedown in your footwells trying to find out why his tool can get coms with your car for any length of time. If your dealler needs to communicate with the car, they can just spend a min putting the contact back into place:



Remove either pin 6 (CAN low) or 14 (CAN high)
Top Tip there Max.

CoolHands

16,104 posts

179 months

Friday 20th April 2012
quotequote all
Devil2575 said:
How many times do we hear this. I've read it three time today on PH alone. How about doing something about the huge wave of cheap ripoffs/clones and copies coming out of China.
It wouldn't matter where the tool is made. It's not illegal to make / own / distribute a tool that communicates with / reprogrammes / or does anything else you want to a vehicle's ecu. To think that way is a complete non-starter.

JT1982

8 posts

128 months

Saturday 21st April 2012
quotequote all
Hi, I am sorry to hear your car has also been stolen. Ours was too, without the key: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=113...

I have contacted Watchdog already. I hope that victims will do likewise so that if they have a mass of similar situations they will publish a story on this. This seems to be the only way to get the wider public to become aware of this issue which BMW deny.

I will also be making a written complaint to BMW this week. Speaking to them on the phone is like talking to a brick wall.

I contacted their Customer Service by telephone several times already, however was fobbed off with the "all ours cars comply with EU regulations", "you cannot prove your car's alarm didnt go off" and "there is no evidence that BMW are at fault".

Here's the humdinger... I was also recommended to contact my local dealership to find out if my car needed a software update and that the dealership would do this if needed. I explained how this was even remotely possible as my car had been STOLEN and wasn't in my possesion hence the reason for my call...and any software update that may have helped was too late...to which the response was "well we can't help you then".

One word describes BMW in my opinion...INCOMPETENT.

s3fella

10,523 posts

171 months

Saturday 21st April 2012
quotequote all
Cars have always been nickable, IME. In the 70s and 80s we had aftermarket stuff to help hold onto your property. But cara still got nicked, with it or without it. When we got insurance immobilisers, we had to spend 500 quid on aftermarket alarms etc to get insurance, when decent cars were 10k. We did not moan or whine, we just did it, it was part of buying and owning a car.
So the great EU got involved and made car makers fit these systems as standard..... What do the thieves do, do they stop nicking cars......no, they break in with bats and beat the owners up for the keys!!
All we have here is the late 80 s and 90 s back again, cars going without keys. It does not matter, IMO whether a car is lifted onto a truck and taken, or just taken using a laptop, it is stil taken. All this whining about BMW being incompetent etc is wrong, they have a product that was good enough for owners to buy, and some clever toe rags are nicking them. The method is iMO immaterial, audis were being half inched left right and centre round my way a few years back, stolen with keys, car jacking etc. now BMWs are being targetted. Just take some, sensible precautions as we did in yEars gone by and you limit the chances of your bm going walkies, but if they really really want it, guess what, they will get it. Same as they did for the last 50 years!
Get a decent steering lock, remove a relay or get a hiddent switch . If you don't want to do that, accept that the car is at risk, the same as it has been for the last 10 years whilst theft with keys have been rife.
It's not BMWs fault, it's the thieves fault. If you want to stop them, don't bh about it, just take some of the sensible advice metered out here and make it more difficult. But that is all you can do, make it more difficult.



NelsonR32

1,571 posts

155 months

Saturday 21st April 2012
quotequote all
BMW have dropped an absolutely massive bk here and there response to this is shocking. You can't code an modern Audi key without being linked up to Germany via an Approved Dealer. Seems Audi thought about bladeless keys allot more harder than they did.

Shame that BMW's response to common problems (E46 boot floors, VANO's problems, fuel pump problems on 35i engines) always seems to be deny, deny and deny.


theaxe

3,503 posts

206 months

Saturday 21st April 2012
quotequote all
Max_Torque said:
Listen chaps, it's easy! Just remove one of the CAN bus wires from your J1962 OBD socket. The wires push backwards out of the plastic connector by pushing down a little locking tab. Then just tape said wire back onto the loom with a bit of electrical insulating tape.


Said thief is not going to be spending time with his head upsidedown in your footwells trying to find out why his tool can get coms with your car for any length of time. If your dealler needs to communicate with the car, they can just spend a min putting the contact back into place:



Remove either pin 6 (CAN low) or 14 (CAN high)
Thanks for that, I assume it wouldn't be too hard to just snip the wire and add a hidden switch. As you say, not too complicated but I can't imagine too many car thieves would bother to figure it out.

Frik

13,336 posts

227 months

Saturday 21st April 2012
quotequote all
Frik said:
Okay, playing devil's advocate for a second, if BMW have no easy solution to this issue (and security solutions are never easy, by definition), what should they be doing?
I'll reiterate my question. Assuming they're working to fix the problem (a fair assumption), what exactly should they be doing in terms of PR that they aren't doing right now?

Rich_W

12,548 posts

196 months

Saturday 21st April 2012
quotequote all
Motorrad said:
Last time I saw the disklok mentioned here someone claimed he could remove one easily without the key. He was asked to provide proof but didn't. I concluded he was talking bks as every report I've ever read involving lost keys involves a lengthy period of cutting and drilling by a locksmith.

Bit of a pain in the arse using one every time you get in and out of your 30k+ daily driver however.
That may have been me. Funnily enough I decided NOT to post on a public forum how to do it. But if you live near South London let me know and I'll come show you. smile 2 Mins absolute tops. Oh and I charge £1000 for this demo :- )

Motorrad said:
The person who claimed the disklok can be defeated quickly and easily said the method used was brute force. Sounds like cr@p to me.
Yep. There's actually TWO methods.

First is to use absolut brute force (though this is dependent on the vehicle it's fitted to) Second is much much simpler and quicker!

paulrussell said:
CoolHands said:
the proper disklok (the round yellow one that covers the steering wheel) has a security key that can't be picked (I own one).
Every lock that uses a key can be picked, though the decent locks take a very long time, so locksmiths use other ways to overcome those locks.
yes

BMW UK said:
“The battle against increasingly sophisticated thieves is a constant challenge for all car makers. Desirable, premium-branded cars, like BMW and its competitors, have always been targeted. BMW has been at the forefront of vehicle security for many years ... This data is used to enhance our defense (sic) systems accordingly. Currently BMW Group products meet or exceed all global legislative criteria concerning vehicle security.”
To be fair to BMW.(and all manufacturers) They are always going to be one step behind the criminals. Cars are "relatively" easy to steal. They are left alone, normally outside for hours on end.

CoolHands said:
mk4 vw golfs and passats have a design flaw whereby you can open the central locking (and thus get in the car without the alarm going off) after you pull out the door lock (which is quite easy to do). You need to 'delock' them. VW never did a damn thing about it, it's up to individual owners to do it. My brother had all his airbags stolen out of his passat via this method (cost a helluva lot back then when passat was a current model).

ripped out:



delocked:



anyway my point is I think manufacturers don't consider themselves 'responsible' if your car gets nicked by whatever method - as there is always going to be some way cars can get nicked. The thief is the responsible party.
1) VW did do something about it. I know this for a absolute fact, as they were on Watchdog at the time and implemented a semi recall for any customers that wanted it. It wasn't perfect, but better than nothing.

2) Fitting the non barrel blank as on the blue car doesn't totally stop the fault.

theaxe said:
Thanks for that, I assume it wouldn't be too hard to just snip the wire and add a hidden switch. As you say, not too complicated but I can't imagine too many car thieves would bother to figure it out.
That'll please BMW warranty. "Hi yes, I've fked my CAN network up properly by cutting random wires can you fix it please" laugh

s3fella said:
Cars have always been nickable, IME. In the 70s and 80s we had aftermarket stuff to help hold onto your property. But cara still got nicked, with it or without it. When we got insurance immobilisers, we had to spend 500 quid on aftermarket alarms etc to get insurance, when decent cars were 10k. We did not moan or whine, we just did it, it was part of buying and owning a car.
So the great EU got involved and made car makers fit these systems as standard..... What do the thieves do, do they stop nicking cars......no, they break in with bats and beat the owners up for the keys!!
All we have here is the late 80 s and 90 s back again, cars going without keys. It does not matter, IMO whether a car is lifted onto a truck and taken, or just taken using a laptop, it is stil taken. All this whining about BMW being incompetent etc is wrong, they have a product that was good enough for owners to buy, and some clever toe rags are nicking them. The method is iMO immaterial, audis were being half inched left right and centre round my way a few years back, stolen with keys, car jacking etc. now BMWs are being targetted. Just take some, sensible precautions as we did in yEars gone by and you limit the chances of your bm going walkies, but if they really really want it, guess what, they will get it. Same as they did for the last 50 years!
Get a decent steering lock, remove a relay or get a hiddent switch . If you don't want to do that, accept that the car is at risk, the same as it has been for the last 10 years whilst theft with keys have been rife.
It's not BMWs fault, it's the thieves fault. If you want to stop them, don't bh about it, just take some of the sensible advice metered out here and make it more difficult. But that is all you can do, make it more difficult.
Don't you bring facts in here. It's not the thieves fault. It's BMW's dammit! laugh

t8cmf

342 posts

144 months

Saturday 21st April 2012
quotequote all
I wish I had as much faith in BMW as some of the people on here have. I don't believe for one minute that Munich are in a state of panic or that BMW UK are investigating this issue at all. They will bury their heads and ride out the storm and in a few months it will have blown over. I don't expect any forthcoming fixes from BMW anytime soon.

A worried 2007 E92 M3 owner. frown

0a

23,702 posts

178 months

Saturday 21st April 2012
quotequote all
BMW should be careful. A neighbour I talk to in the local mentioned "those expensive BMW thefts" to me tonight as his son in law has just purchased an e90 330d.

If they are not careful they could gain a "don't buy one as it will go missing" reputation, and I say this as a real BMW fan.

S8QUATTRO

737 posts

134 months

Sunday 22nd April 2012
quotequote all
Worrying, i've just bought a 320d m sport. Not a high performance model/mega expensive model. Is it just m3/m5 335 and such models being stolen?

Now the BMW is parked on the drive first, with an old school steering lock, followed by a £600 Fiesta blocking it in, then a Ford Focus blocking that in.

There's a near identical petrol model about 6 houses away thats left on the road.

tonker

62,771 posts

232 months

Sunday 22nd April 2012
quotequote all
the fast ones will be to order - but when the dodgy body shops get hold of the kit, they will be acquiring any BMWs to do repairs and mods to 'lesser' models - and it's easier to strip it in a workshop than just nick a bumper.....

baz1985

3,502 posts

229 months

Sunday 22nd April 2012
quotequote all
I make sure a fully valid GAP RTI or Replacement insurance was held on the car. It mitigates any potential substantial financial loss; if you've got emotional attachment then a psychotherapy session or two may help.


Shadow R1

3,731 posts

160 months

Sunday 22nd April 2012
quotequote all
They will be broke for spares, or end up abroad.


s3fella

10,523 posts

171 months

Sunday 22nd April 2012
quotequote all
0a said:
BMW should be careful. A neighbour I talk to in the local mentioned "those expensive BMW thefts" to me tonight as his son in law has just purchased an e90 330d.

If they are not careful they could gain a "don't buy one as it will go missing" reputation, and I say this as a real BMW fan.
And yet his son in law still bought one?

NelsonR32

1,571 posts

155 months

Sunday 22nd April 2012
quotequote all
On the plus side, I might be able to pick up a 335i for a steal in a few months time. If you excuse the pun.

Dave Hedgehog

14,185 posts

188 months

Sunday 22nd April 2012
quotequote all
NelsonR32 said:
On the plus side, I might be able to pick up a 335i for a steal in a few months time. If you excuse the pun.
and you can buy it back again a few weeks later, and then again and ...

TallbutBuxomly

12,254 posts

200 months

Sunday 22nd April 2012
quotequote all
I dont have a bmw but do love bmw's and have many a time considered replacing my audi or getting a bm to run alongside.

So i sent the head of bmw uk an email...


Hi

Firstly my apologies for emailing you directly Mr Abbott however I feel an email to customer services will be either lost in the ether or ignored.

There is a growing PR issue for BMW at the moment with some of your latest cars being stolen using cloned BMW keys. I realise BMW may be aware of this however it is starting to spread across internet forums and is according to certain posts becoming a problem for BMW with various now ex owners stating that they will not be buying another BMW.
In the UK it is going to mean that certain BMW's that may not be in a very high insurance group will start attracting very high and unfavourable insurance quotes putting people off buying them as much as the possibility of theft.

Pistonheads is one of the biggest if not the biggest online motoring forum and in fact BMW have hosted many Pistonheads Sunday Services. Please note this thread from the forum...
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...

And this one please take special note of last post from the individual who's car was stolen...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

and this one from a bmw specific forum..
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66...

There are others I am sure however I haven't the time to find them all and you haven't the time to read them all either I expect.

As you can see people are talking and this is going to become a bigger and bigger problem for bmw from a PR perspective especially if picked up by watchdog uk. The internet spreads thing like wildfire. People are unhappy as BMW are seen to be non reactive and non fussed about the issue.

I would suggest getting BMW's PR dept onto this and have them get the message out to the press. Possibly along the lines of " BMW are aware of a new trend in vehicle thefts and are investigating the methods used with a view to rectifying any potential security shortfalls as quickly as possible."

BMW's unlike other makes are bought by people passionate about the marque and as such they talk to each other and in this modern tech age bad news spreads very fast. It takes years to build a reputation it takes nowhere near as long to destroy it.

Thanks


The response...


Dear Mr X

Thank you for your email dated April 17, 2012 addressed to Mr Tim Abbott, Managing Director of BMW UK which has been forwarded to me for a response. I am sorry that you have had cause to contact under such circumstances and that this issue has caused you concern. I would however like to thank you for taking the time to contact us regarding this matter,

I wish to assure you that all BMW products sold within the UK Market comply with all EU safety and security requirements. In the UK specifically we ensure that the vehicles are tested against Thatcham requirements. However there are likely to be instances where a determined criminal can establish methods to gain entry into a BMW or any other manufacturers vehicle, regrettably this is outside of our control. I am sure you will appreciate that BMW cannot be held responsible for any incidents of this nature. However, BMW and its partners continue to work closely with the Police to monitor all methods of vehicle theft to ensure our products always remain in the hands of the rightful owner.

Once again, I am sorry you have had cause to contact us under such circumstances and I trust that the information provided is of use.

Yours sincerely

BMW UK

Or to put in simple terms bmw really couldnt give a flying fk about the problem or the bad pr it is generating.....

My response....

Mr Bell.

Sorry to say this is not the response I was hoping for but the response I was expecting. The simple fact is criminals have found a gaping flaw in the security system of certain bmw's between 07 and 2011 and present where they can steal the cars with ease without even breaking the cars windows.

They simply user a jammer to block the car from locking then plug a key coder into the obd port and code a blank key to the car. They then use this key to start the car and drive it away and no one is any the wiser till the owner goes to use the car and finds it gone. The alarm never goes off.

The question therefore has to be raised. Where are they getting the blank bmw keys from? The obd key programming kit is available online for around 300 quid.

I am also led to believe that they can gain access by breaking the window and reaching in and plugging the code kit into the obd without tripping the alarm as there is a black spot in the cars interior security sensor system apparently according to a bmw technician.

Ignoring the issue and claiming that the cars all conform to EU safety and security requirements DOES not address the problem. There is a distinct security flaw in bmw's system. There is no code required by the cars obd system to allow a person to recode a new key to the car and apparently you can break a window reach in and plug the obd device into the car without tripping the alarm system and code a new key to the car.

If BMW wishes to bury their head in the sand over this issue and lose lots and lots of present and future customers it is your choice. However I suspect this is going to go much the same way as the BMW cracking alloy wheel issue highlighted on BBC watchdog only it's going to be a much bigger PR problem as no one is going to want to buy a car which can be easily stolen due to a gaping flaw in its security system.

Thank you for your response however.

Sincerely