Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 2

[TheHeretic]

ViperPict said:

I can read fine, just glaze over with your whiney nonsense for some reason...

OK VP. You are an oracle, and I am a whiner. Got it.

[thinfourth2]

ViperPict said:

It just shows how ignorant you are to the actual situation and how all your views are based on paranoia.

Well sadly i can't base my views on anything else as the only info coming from the YES lot is semaphore

[ViperPict]

TheHeretic said:

ViperPict said:

I can read fine, just glaze over with your whiney nonsense for some reason...

OK VP. You are an oracle, and I am a whiner. Got it.

Now that we have that sort we can get somewhere...

[TheHeretic]

Agreed... Now give us some pearls of wisdom on the appropriate subject. We await your wisdom.

[ViperPict]

TheHeretic said:

Agreed... Now give us some pearls of wisdom on the appropriate subject. We await your wisdom.

That, if independence gets the YES vote, we'll manage not too bad on our own.

[TheHeretic]

ViperPict said:

That, if independence gets the YES vote, we'll manage not too bad on our own.

No-one said otherwise depending on the economic, and domestic policies that a new government would undertake. That is what is up for discussion.

[Edinburger]

TheHeretic said:

ViperPict said:

That, if independence gets the YES vote, we'll manage not too bad on our own.

No-one said otherwise depending on the economic, and domestic policies that a new government would undertake. That is what is up for discussion.

And other than the naysayers on here, there's not been much talk about those matters as yet.

[TheHeretic]

Edinburger said:

And other than the naysayers on here, there's not been much talk about those matters as yet.

Round and round we go... Well, when your politicians decide to actually start a discussion has already been part of this discussion, in the meantime, many people have tried to broach these things, to very little response.

EU membership
Fiscal policy
Defence policy
Taxation policy
National currency
and so on, and so forth.

All these things, and many more can be found within these threads. All of these things are perfectly valid discussion topics when it comes to a potential independent nation. All of these things we will apparently have to wait for the get go by Alex. When he is ready, THEN we can talk about it, seemingly, as the pro-independence people seem reticent to talk about it in this thread.

It does beg the question... If you do not want to talk about these things on this thread, then what do you want to talk about on this thread?

[Edinburger]

TheHeretic said:

Edinburger said:

And other than the naysayers on here, there's not been much talk about those matters as yet.

Round and round we go... Well, when your politicians decide to actually start a discussion has already been part of this discussion, in the meantime, many people have tried to broach these things, to very little response.

EU membership
Fiscal policy
Defence policy
Taxation policy
National currency
and so on, and so forth.

All these things, and many more can be found within these threads. All of these things are perfectly valid discussion topics when it comes to a potential independent nation. All of these things we will apparently have to wait for the get go by Alex. When he is ready, THEN we can talk about it, seemingly, as the pro-independence people seem reticent to talk about it in this thread.

It does beg the question... If you do not want to talk about these things on this thread, then what do you want to talk about on this thread?

Aye, aye, I know all that. I’m talking about open public debate rather than a anonymous keyboard warriors and self-proclaimed experts.

But then, that's why we have two years to go.

Oh, and I have been involved in several discussions here on many of those topics.

[ViperPict]

TheHeretic said:

Edinburger said:

And other than the naysayers on here, there's not been much talk about those matters as yet.

Round and round we go... Well, when your politicians decide to actually start a discussion has already been part of this discussion, in the meantime, many people have tried to broach these things, to very little response.

EU membership
Fiscal policy
Defence policy
Taxation policy
National currency
and so on, and so forth.

All these things, and many more can be found within these threads. All of these things are perfectly valid discussion topics when it comes to a potential independent nation. All of these things we will apparently have to wait for the get go by Alex. When he is ready, THEN we can talk about it, seemingly, as the pro-independence people seem reticent to talk about it in this thread.

It does beg the question... If you do not want to talk about these things on this thread, then what do you want to talk about on this thread?

We go back to the basic issue. You are caught up in the deterministic approach, I am not. We have fundamentally different ways of approaching this but you can't get your head around that and insist that I try and explain all the detail using your restrictive philosophy. How about you use the theory I propose to tell me why independence won't work?

[London424]

ViperPict said:

TheHeretic said:

Edinburger said:

And other than the naysayers on here, there's not been much talk about those matters as yet.

Round and round we go... Well, when your politicians decide to actually start a discussion has already been part of this discussion, in the meantime, many people have tried to broach these things, to very little response.

EU membership
Fiscal policy
Defence policy
Taxation policy
National currency
and so on, and so forth.

All these things, and many more can be found within these threads. All of these things are perfectly valid discussion topics when it comes to a potential independent nation. All of these things we will apparently have to wait for the get go by Alex. When he is ready, THEN we can talk about it, seemingly, as the pro-independence people seem reticent to talk about it in this thread.

It does beg the question... If you do not want to talk about these things on this thread, then what do you want to talk about on this thread?

We go back to the basic issue. You are caught up in the deterministic approach, I am not. We have fundamentally different ways of approaching this but you can't get your head around that and insist that I try and explain all the detail using your restrictive philosophy. How about you use the theory I propose to tell me why independence won't work?

Sure, go for it. Explain away.

[ViperPict]

London424 said:

ViperPict said:

TheHeretic said:

Edinburger said:

And other than the naysayers on here, there's not been much talk about those matters as yet.

Round and round we go... Well, when your politicians decide to actually start a discussion has already been part of this discussion, in the meantime, many people have tried to broach these things, to very little response.

EU membership
Fiscal policy
Defence policy
Taxation policy
National currency
and so on, and so forth.

All these things, and many more can be found within these threads. All of these things are perfectly valid discussion topics when it comes to a potential independent nation. All of these things we will apparently have to wait for the get go by Alex. When he is ready, THEN we can talk about it, seemingly, as the pro-independence people seem reticent to talk about it in this thread.

It does beg the question... If you do not want to talk about these things on this thread, then what do you want to talk about on this thread?

We go back to the basic issue. You are caught up in the deterministic approach, I am not. We have fundamentally different ways of approaching this but you can't get your head around that and insist that I try and explain all the detail using your restrictive philosophy. How about you use the theory I propose to tell me why independence won't work?

Sure, go for it. Explain away.

I am asking TH to explain why my approach is in error. Are you also suggesting that he should or misinterpretting what I wrote?

[TheHeretic]

ViperPict said:

We go back to the basic issue. You are caught up in the deterministic approach, I am not. We have fundamentally different ways of approaching this but you can't get your head around that and insist that I try and explain all the detail using your restrictive philosophy. How about you use the theory I propose to tell me why independence won't work?

For the nth time, I never said Independence will not work. If you can find that particular quote, go ahead. As for your deterministic approach stuff, and how we can't actually discuss anything in the future as 'who knows what could happen', if you don't want to discuss it, don't, but either explain your stance, or stop trying to divert and block discussion by bringing it up, as it basically means nothing. You are in this thread for a reason. It is either to discuss independence implication, or it is merely to wave a flag. If the former, great. If the latter, then we will k ow to ignore you.

I am quite happy with you having your view, and me having mine, but pretending that your approach is the best, and all others are inferior, and unworthy is frankly pathetic. You haven't, thus far, actually bothered to explain anything about your position, other than 'yay, independence!'.

[London424]

ViperPict said:

London424 said:

ViperPict said:

TheHeretic said:

Edinburger said:

And other than the naysayers on here, there's not been much talk about those matters as yet.

Round and round we go... Well, when your politicians decide to actually start a discussion has already been part of this discussion, in the meantime, many people have tried to broach these things, to very little response.

EU membership
Fiscal policy
Defence policy
Taxation policy
National currency
and so on, and so forth.

All these things, and many more can be found within these threads. All of these things are perfectly valid discussion topics when it comes to a potential independent nation. All of these things we will apparently have to wait for the get go by Alex. When he is ready, THEN we can talk about it, seemingly, as the pro-independence people seem reticent to talk about it in this thread.

It does beg the question... If you do not want to talk about these things on this thread, then what do you want to talk about on this thread?

We go back to the basic issue. You are caught up in the deterministic approach, I am not. We have fundamentally different ways of approaching this but you can't get your head around that and insist that I try and explain all the detail using your restrictive philosophy. How about you use the theory I propose to tell me why independence won't work?

Sure, go for it. Explain away.

I am asking TH to explain why my approach is in error. Are you also suggesting that he should or misinterpretting what I wrote?

I have misunderstood. I was hoping you were going to use your theory to explain why it will work. Not have someone use your theory about why it won't.

Seeing as I don't know your theory can you explain it?

[Wombat3]

ViperPict said:

London424 said:

ViperPict said:

TheHeretic said:

Edinburger said:

And other than the naysayers on here, there's not been much talk about those matters as yet.

Round and round we go... Well, when your politicians decide to actually start a discussion has already been part of this discussion, in the meantime, many people have tried to broach these things, to very little response.

EU membership
Fiscal policy
Defence policy
Taxation policy
National currency
and so on, and so forth.

All these things, and many more can be found within these threads. All of these things are perfectly valid discussion topics when it comes to a potential independent nation. All of these things we will apparently have to wait for the get go by Alex. When he is ready, THEN we can talk about it, seemingly, as the pro-independence people seem reticent to talk about it in this thread.

It does beg the question... If you do not want to talk about these things on this thread, then what do you want to talk about on this thread?

We go back to the basic issue. You are caught up in the deterministic approach, I am not. We have fundamentally different ways of approaching this but you can't get your head around that and insist that I try and explain all the detail using your restrictive philosophy. How about you use the theory I propose to tell me why independence won't work?

Sure, go for it. Explain away.

I am asking TH to explain why my approach is in error.

Let me help you with that - its short (indeed devoid of) facts and, in turn, very long on fairy dust and bullst.

Alternatively, using your exact same theory, why is it that you can determine that the balance of probablilities is that the result will definitly be positive when it could equally as well be argued (using the very same fairy dust and bullst) that it will be entirely negative?

All that is required here is a little evidence to support your statements (and a lot less fairy dust and bullst).

As a Scientist (alledgedly) one would expect a good base of fact based research in order to support your assertions - it is entirely lacking. Furthermore there is much social, political and economic history not to mention hard and current data that drives a coach and horses through your fairy dust and bullst.

Nonetheless you seem to think it a brilliant idea for several million people to risk their futures and wellbeing on nothing more than your fairy dust and bullst. And in there lies a significant amount of empirical evidence that you are in fact stark, staring mad. Logic therefore dictates that your fairy dust & bullst theories really do have no credibility whatsoever.

Does that help?

[thinfourth2]

TheHeretic said:

ViperPict said:

We go back to the basic issue. You are caught up in the deterministic approach, I am not. We have fundamentally different ways of approaching this but you can't get your head around that and insist that I try and explain all the detail using your restrictive philosophy. How about you use the theory I propose to tell me why independence won't work?

For the nth time, I never said Independence will not work. If you can find that particular quote, go ahead. As for your deterministic approach stuff, and how we can't actually discuss anything in the future as 'who knows what could happen', if you don't want to discuss it, don't, but either explain your stance, or stop trying to divert and block discussion by bringing it up, as it basically means nothing. You are in this thread for a reason. It is either to discuss independence implication, or it is merely to wave a flag. If the former, great. If the latter, then we will k ow to ignore you.

I am quite happy with you having your view, and me having mine, but pretending that your approach is the best, and all others are inferior, and unworthy is frankly pathetic. You haven't, thus far, actually bothered to explain anything about your position, other than 'yay, independence!'.

While cleaning our some chicken st i had a sudden revelation

I actually understand where VP is coming from

Once you have a think about it, it all becomes very obvious and completely clear

VPs thoughts and beliefs about the future of scotland cannot be argued with and no man can prove him wrong

In fact i believe to argue with him might be illegal


He thinks that scottish independence is a religious matter and the son of god is going to come from a virgin birth and lead us to glory

[AstonZagato]

thinfourth2 said:

He thinks that scottish independence is a religious matter and the son of god is going to come from a virgin birth and lead us to glory

Are you saying Alex Salmond is pregnant with the messiah? It would explain the belly.

[ViperPict]

TheHeretic said:

ViperPict said:

We go back to the basic issue. You are caught up in the deterministic approach, I am not. We have fundamentally different ways of approaching this but you can't get your head around that and insist that I try and explain all the detail using your restrictive philosophy. How about you use the theory I propose to tell me why independence won't work?

For the nth time, I never said Independence will not work. If you can find that particular quote, go ahead. As for your deterministic approach stuff, and how we can't actually discuss anything in the future as 'who knows what could happen', if you don't want to discuss it, don't, but either explain your stance, or stop trying to divert and block discussion by bringing it up, as it basically means nothing. You are in this thread for a reason. It is either to discuss independence implication, or it is merely to wave a flag. If the former, great. If the latter, then we will k ow to ignore you.

I am quite happy with you having your view, and me having mine, but pretending that your approach is the best, and all others are inferior, and unworthy is frankly pathetic. You haven't, thus far, actually bothered to explain anything about your position, other than 'yay, independence!'.

We continually go back to your inability to understand or accept my fundamental stance, that complex systems theory would dictate that, in most liklihood, Scotland would be in about the same position economically post-independence. And I have explained that many times but you just ignore it or don't have the capacity to understand it. But with the opportunity to make decisions purely concerning Scottish interest and not being subjected to policy that only considers Scotland in the minority. And that is not (what has become the trendy phrase in this thread amongst Unionists), flag waving!

It is not diverting anything, it is my fundamental belief, END OF! You just can't grasp that!

P.S. Your rhetoric in this thread VERY heavily comes down into the Unionist camp. You don't exactly take a balanced stance in the argument!

[TheHeretic]

So your non-deterministic stance is 'it will be the same'. Your reasoning for this is what, exactly? Are you taking into consideration all I listed earlier? Issues with the EU, fiscal policy, etc?

I am amazed that even after you 'chastise' me for being just wrong, and all that other junk, you still give zero explanation for your stance. Not a jot. I have, every time, explained why I feel that if X then Y. I do not see that an unreasonable. Can you please tey to be reasonable.

[ViperPict]

Wombat3 said:

ViperPict said:

London424 said:

ViperPict said:

TheHeretic said:

Edinburger said:

And other than the naysayers on here, there's not been much talk about those matters as yet.

Round and round we go... Well, when your politicians decide to actually start a discussion has already been part of this discussion, in the meantime, many people have tried to broach these things, to very little response.

EU membership
Fiscal policy
Defence policy
Taxation policy
National currency
and so on, and so forth.

All these things, and many more can be found within these threads. All of these things are perfectly valid discussion topics when it comes to a potential independent nation. All of these things we will apparently have to wait for the get go by Alex. When he is ready, THEN we can talk about it, seemingly, as the pro-independence people seem reticent to talk about it in this thread.

It does beg the question... If you do not want to talk about these things on this thread, then what do you want to talk about on this thread?

We go back to the basic issue. You are caught up in the deterministic approach, I am not. We have fundamentally different ways of approaching this but you can't get your head around that and insist that I try and explain all the detail using your restrictive philosophy. How about you use the theory I propose to tell me why independence won't work?

Sure, go for it. Explain away.

I am asking TH to explain why my approach is in error.

Let me help you with that - its short (indeed devoid of) facts and, in turn, very long on fairy dust and bullst.

Alternatively, using your exact same theory, why is it that you can determine that the balance of probablilities is that the result will definitly be positive when it could equally as well be argued (using the very same fairy dust and bullst) that it will be entirely negative?

All that is required here is a little evidence to support your statements (and a lot less fairy dust and bullst).

As a Scientist (alledgedly) one would expect a good base of fact based research in order to support your assertions - it is entirely lacking. Furthermore there is much social, political and economic history not to mention hard and current data that drives a coach and horses through your fairy dust and bullst.

Nonetheless you seem to think it a brilliant idea for several million people to risk their futures and wellbeing on nothing more than your fairy dust and bullst. And in there lies a significant amount of empirical evidence that you are in fact stark, staring mad. Logic therefore dictates that your fairy dust & bullst theories really do have no credibility whatsoever.

Does that help?

Becuase there is not a sufficiently large 'disturbance' that will cause a fundamental 'system shift'. After the inevitable fluctuations immediately post-independence have settled down, we will be in much the same economic situation. But with a government that is better positioned to provide in the other areas that define 'quality of life' by being able to make ALL decisions solely based on our unique situation (in the same way that all country's situations are unique).