What cost per extra 1mph on bike?
Discussion
So, having been seen off by an admittedly much fitter chap on a sexy blingy bike at the weekend, I was wondering if i upgraded my 
bike to a blingy one, would that (and ignoring fitness improvements etc) give me an extra 1, 2 or 17 mph average speed?
So, get off my Allez triple on to (eg) a mid range carbon with 105 or Ultegra, would that extra (eg) £1500 give an extra 0.3, 0.9, 1.5 etc mph?
What do you reckon? Obviously, I am not simply trying to buy extra speed but just want to make my extra speed more 'attainable' and get up to approaching 20mph average if at all possible.....
Any ideas or pointers? (Aside from the obvious MTFU!)
bike to a blingy one, would that (and ignoring fitness improvements etc) give me an extra 1, 2 or 17 mph average speed? So, get off my Allez triple on to (eg) a mid range carbon with 105 or Ultegra, would that extra (eg) £1500 give an extra 0.3, 0.9, 1.5 etc mph?
What do you reckon? Obviously, I am not simply trying to buy extra speed but just want to make my extra speed more 'attainable' and get up to approaching 20mph average if at all possible.....
Any ideas or pointers? (Aside from the obvious MTFU!)
its the same with anything.
a £1000 new bike is probably 10x nicer to ride than a £100 bike
a £2000 bike a bit better than a £1000 bike
After that it comes down to personal preference and comfort
Speed comes with feel, comfort, gearing and training. if you're fast on a £600 bike, you will be fast on a more expensive bike once you have dialled into it and get into the sweet spot.
If your fast on a £600 bike and you get on a £5000 bike but it just doesnt feel right or comfortable and you just dont "get on with it", you wont be as fast over a long distance.
Only when you feel confident and happy can you then train harder and faster.
This is why a lot of people train on SS, because your legs burn and you build up massive muscles so you can go out and get up that hill a little bit faster.
a £1000 new bike is probably 10x nicer to ride than a £100 bike
a £2000 bike a bit better than a £1000 bike
After that it comes down to personal preference and comfort
Speed comes with feel, comfort, gearing and training. if you're fast on a £600 bike, you will be fast on a more expensive bike once you have dialled into it and get into the sweet spot.
If your fast on a £600 bike and you get on a £5000 bike but it just doesnt feel right or comfortable and you just dont "get on with it", you wont be as fast over a long distance.
Only when you feel confident and happy can you then train harder and faster.
This is why a lot of people train on SS, because your legs burn and you build up massive muscles so you can go out and get up that hill a little bit faster.
As team GB would say - Incremental gains.. Maybe .something of a MPH. The extra cash will save you half the weight of a full water bottle!
Unless you are a TDF contender, whats the point? Enjoy what you have...
Generally, for non professional, the most gains are from hard work/dedication/reg training/lose a few pounds.
Unless you are a TDF contender, whats the point? Enjoy what you have...
Generally, for non professional, the most gains are from hard work/dedication/reg training/lose a few pounds.
The bike would account for very little. Maybe if it was significantly lighter and you were doing massive amounts of climbing. And then it would be the kind of differences that you'd need a stop watch to measure, not whether you can leave your riding buddies for dead or manage to hang on in the chaingang that'd been previously too fast.
However, the psychological and mental boost from being on a nicer bike, certainly during the adjustment period really will make you quicker. Fastest rides I've ever done have been when I've just gone out with some newly aquired, expensive, bling kit.
Just read any report of people trying a new bike here or anywhere else...all the same, regardless of how good/bad the actual bike is or what they're coming from. "Goes up hills like a goat", "soaks up bumps", "just have to think about pressing the pedals and it leaps forward like a scalded cat", "instant power transfer", "handles like it's on rails", "inspires confidence descnending". I'm sure these people believe these things, but 99.9% of it is perception over actual performance increase.
But hey, if the bike causes the rider to ride harder, the results are the same as a bike that rides faster.
However, the psychological and mental boost from being on a nicer bike, certainly during the adjustment period really will make you quicker. Fastest rides I've ever done have been when I've just gone out with some newly aquired, expensive, bling kit.
Just read any report of people trying a new bike here or anywhere else...all the same, regardless of how good/bad the actual bike is or what they're coming from. "Goes up hills like a goat", "soaks up bumps", "just have to think about pressing the pedals and it leaps forward like a scalded cat", "instant power transfer", "handles like it's on rails", "inspires confidence descnending". I'm sure these people believe these things, but 99.9% of it is perception over actual performance increase.
But hey, if the bike causes the rider to ride harder, the results are the same as a bike that rides faster.
Jimboka said:
Generally, for non professional, the most gains are from hard work/dedication/reg training/lose a few pounds.
I agree. A few months back I went for a 75 km ride with a few mates and a guy on a Carerra hybrid with flat pedals (his only bike) wiped the floor with all of us. In my case it was to be expected. The guys on the £2k carbon bikes were gutted. They cycle 10 miles a day, the mate with a hybrid does closer to 40 and the difference in base fitness from doing the miles was obvious. 
A friend of mine has only started cycling within the past 2 months.
He started off on a cheap Specialized bike but he broke the front deraileur so I loaned him my spare bike.
We are now averaging 2 mph more. Genuinely Monday and tuesday of last week we avg 16mph. Thursday, Friday and Sat we avg 18mph. Same weather conditions and same flat course.
I think the main reason for the improvement was placebo: he percieved that the bike would be better so pushed himself harder. Although it is considerably lighter than his bike, it also has smoother gears and better wheels and tyres.
He started off on a cheap Specialized bike but he broke the front deraileur so I loaned him my spare bike.
We are now averaging 2 mph more. Genuinely Monday and tuesday of last week we avg 16mph. Thursday, Friday and Sat we avg 18mph. Same weather conditions and same flat course.
I think the main reason for the improvement was placebo: he percieved that the bike would be better so pushed himself harder. Although it is considerably lighter than his bike, it also has smoother gears and better wheels and tyres.
Slaav said:
So, having been seen off by an admittedly much fitter chap on a sexy blingy bike at the weekend, I was wondering if i upgraded my bike to a blingy one, would that (and ignoring fitness improvements etc) give me an extra 1, 2 or 17 mph average speed?
So, get off my Allez triple on to (eg) a mid range carbon with 105 or Ultegra, would that extra (eg) £1500 give an extra 0.3, 0.9, 1.5 etc mph?
What do you reckon? Obviously, I am not simply trying to buy extra speed but just want to make my extra speed more 'attainable' and get up to approaching 20mph average if at all possible.....
Any ideas or pointers? (Aside from the obvious MTFU!)
The best upgrade I made to my Allez Sport was the wheels. I ditched the standard jobbies for a set of Easton EA50SL and they made a noticeable difference. Paired with some decent Schwalbe Ultremos they roll incredibly well. Was I quicker? Hard to tell really as I didn't have quite as much data logging onboard as I do now, but I still notice the difference when I go back to the bog-standard wheels during the winter. bike to a blingy one, would that (and ignoring fitness improvements etc) give me an extra 1, 2 or 17 mph average speed? So, get off my Allez triple on to (eg) a mid range carbon with 105 or Ultegra, would that extra (eg) £1500 give an extra 0.3, 0.9, 1.5 etc mph?
What do you reckon? Obviously, I am not simply trying to buy extra speed but just want to make my extra speed more 'attainable' and get up to approaching 20mph average if at all possible.....
Any ideas or pointers? (Aside from the obvious MTFU!)
Oh, and tri-bars help as well, but I know 'the rules' frown upon such witchcraft!
the best way is to vary your training rides and routes. if you are just riding the smae routes, you mihgt get a bit faster but your body gets yused to expending energy at certain points of the ride and psychologically, you know these hills are coming up.
try riding off in one direction for a few miles and see after an hour where you end up, if you have a smartphone, just get it to direct you home but seriously, just vary your routes and you will get faster, you dont needto buy anything.........
try riding off in one direction for a few miles and see after an hour where you end up, if you have a smartphone, just get it to direct you home but seriously, just vary your routes and you will get faster, you dont needto buy anything.........
The easiest upgrade i've found is very slick tyres pumped to their absolute maximum (over 120psi will do it) so a good track pump with a gauge will help do this, reduce rolling resistance as much as possible and you should get an extra couple of mph. Your fitness is of course the most significant improvement as it will allow you to cruise at a higher speed for longer.
10 miles per day won't really give you a lot of advantagei have found you need to be out hard for an hour at least to start seeing real improvements.
10 miles per day won't really give you a lot of advantagei have found you need to be out hard for an hour at least to start seeing real improvements.
I would say that my commuter/work hack (probably similar to your bike) is 1 min to 1.30 secs slower per 7 miles (Richmond Park) than my expensive bike.
However, I would agree with the above, a decent rider who has worked hard won't have any issue averaging 17mph on any kind of roadbike good or bad.
However, I would agree with the above, a decent rider who has worked hard won't have any issue averaging 17mph on any kind of roadbike good or bad.
Uriel said:
The bike would account for very little. Maybe if it was significantly lighter and you were doing massive amounts of climbing. And then it would be the kind of differences that you'd need a stop watch to measure, not whether you can leave your riding buddies for dead or manage to hang on in the chaingang that'd been previously too fast.
Just like to point out that this is not true.I would not be able to stick the Tuesday chain-gang on my work-bike, not even close.
Uriel said:
What's your work bike and what about it would you say would make the difference? Just curious...the whole 'should I buy aero or light wheel and what are the real world benefits' argument from that other thread really isn't something I'm keen to dredge up!
A Raleigh Avanti Carbon thing with 105 and aksium wheels.Tyres, and the position that it puts me in mostly are the things that slow it down in a huge way, it does weigh more, certainly, but that's not an issue really.
That's pretty much what I'd have expected. So although you may be real work quicker on your race bike, the improvment doesn't really come from the 'bike' as such given that you should be able to achieve the same fit/position on any road bike and tyres aren't really part of the bike as far as comparing make/model and upgrading through the range go.
Obviously there is a differnce and for a lot of people (myself included) that difference is worth paying for, but it's very small and meaningless until you're riding at level and pace that is way beyond a 17mph average trundle down the country lanes.
Even then, think of Gilbert winning all those classics on Canyon's bottom of the range road frame last year. Didn't hold him back much.
Obviously there is a differnce and for a lot of people (myself included) that difference is worth paying for, but it's very small and meaningless until you're riding at level and pace that is way beyond a 17mph average trundle down the country lanes.
Even then, think of Gilbert winning all those classics on Canyon's bottom of the range road frame last year. Didn't hold him back much.
Its the combo of things that make that bike slower, those are probably just the most obvious.
What frame was Gilbert racing on?
Another way of looking at it will be when I get my TT bike seeing how much quicker I am for the same watts/conditions around Richmond Park (and obviously actual events, but this is a good test), it won't be as much as you would think I doubt.
As said above, the faster you get the smaller the gains are, and the more expensive they are to get! The guy I'm buying my TT bike off has bought the same frame a size smaller so he can get a more aggressive position, I would imagine this MIGHT see him go under 19 for a 10 (currently can do a 19.20), so it will be quite a few quid laid out for 30 seconds or so seconds gain.
What frame was Gilbert racing on?
Another way of looking at it will be when I get my TT bike seeing how much quicker I am for the same watts/conditions around Richmond Park (and obviously actual events, but this is a good test), it won't be as much as you would think I doubt.
As said above, the faster you get the smaller the gains are, and the more expensive they are to get! The guy I'm buying my TT bike off has bought the same frame a size smaller so he can get a more aggressive position, I would imagine this MIGHT see him go under 19 for a 10 (currently can do a 19.20), so it will be quite a few quid laid out for 30 seconds or so seconds gain.
There are two fairly well recognised routes to instant gain. First, clipless pedals. Second good wheels.
After that, a laterally stiff frame will help reduce wasted energy going uphill.
And a full on TT rig with a proper fitting will make a fair old difference.
And after that, it's pretty much all down to you.
After that, a laterally stiff frame will help reduce wasted energy going uphill.
And a full on TT rig with a proper fitting will make a fair old difference.
And after that, it's pretty much all down to you.
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