Big Brake Upgrade for Early DB9 / Vantage

Big Brake Upgrade for Early DB9 / Vantage

Author
Discussion

Squaremeal

Original Poster:

180 posts

138 months

Tuesday 5th December 2017
quotequote all
Just for interest I thought I'd jot down some of my thoughts and opinions about this upgrade which I hope maybe of interest.

For the purposes of this post I won't go into CCB upgrades - simply because of my Luddite prejudices in regard to CCBs for road use! - Oh and the extra expense of such an upgrade!

But I diverge!

Early DB9's and Vantages have 355mm Brembo brake disks with four piston callipers. The Vantage S introduced an upgraded braking system (DB9 moved to CCB's) which can be retro fitted to the earlier models.

Why do the upgrade? Certainly speaking from my experience with the DB9 I was never that happy with the brakes. They exhibited a very wooden feel and were difficult to modulate with jerky stops all too common at lower speeds. Indeed I often felt I had something like this on the car rather than the performance braking system the Aston demanded.



These characteristics considerably detracted my enjoyment of spirited driving. In addition brake fade became noticeable on such drives. All of which proved to be a real chore on mountain roads - I'm not a track day person.

The brake upgrade tackles these issues in two ways:

Firstly the front brakes, which at least in a DB9 do most of the work, are upgraded from Brembo 355mm to Brembo 380mm. The heavy duty disk is now bell mounted and the larger disk provides a bigger braking surface and more resistance to braking before fade. Additionally the new disks save about 0.4kg per corner in unsprung weight - the upgraded callipers may negate this however.



Secondly the front brake callipers are upgraded from a Brembo four piston to a very rigid (solid cast) Brembo six piston calliper complete with a larger brake pad fitment. There is now more pad surface to modulate and a stiffer more accurate calliper to transfer your braking demands. This dramatically improves braking performance and feel.

The upgrade kit is available from Brembo directly however I would recommend expert fitting (many reputable Aston specialists offer this upgrade) as I understand there are a few little gotchas on fitment and... well, it's the brake (oh and one other thing. The upgrade provides the perfect opportunity to check the condition of the front bearings whilst the upgrade is being undertaken)!

The upgrade is quite pricey (the parts alone see to that) - however if you really drive your car I cannot recommend it highly enough. It dramatically transformed my Aston.

On a recent blast across the Alps I suffered no brake fade. The increased braking power and feel of well modulated brakes (as opposed to the "wooden" feeling original set up) also added to my confidence in the DB making the journey all the more enjoyable.

Finally the upgrade does provide a nice cosmetic boost to the car, with the purposefully filled out front wheels displaying the new bell housings. It also offers the opportunity to personalise your Aston with bespoke calliper colours as you're replacing the front set anyway so some painting will always be needed.

In my case I wanted red callipers but not the bright red standard Aston colour. I wanted a darker red to complement the shade of the rear lights. It's a small touch but I couldn't be happier

Finally a special thanks to Mike and the Bamford Rose boys for installing such a worthwhile upgrade and helping source the colour I wanted.







Edited by Squaremeal on Wednesday 6th December 13:13

Likeomg

164 posts

97 months

Tuesday 5th December 2017
quotequote all
Not to mention they fill the wheel so much better and look the part...


i always hate seeing big rims with tiny discs... i feel porsche is normally a culprit for this

i've done a big upgrade on a pointless car before just because i didn't like the look of the small discs / callipers idea

MaverickV12

1,084 posts

137 months

Tuesday 5th December 2017
quotequote all
Nice write up.....

Nothing wrong with my brakes that a quick wire brush couldn't sort out.....



May I ask what you did about the handbrake callipers?



..... but more importantly ..... tell us about the blast across the Alps ..... smile

telum01

987 posts

114 months

Tuesday 5th December 2017
quotequote all
I'm planning to do this exact same job on my grey Vantage - even the same shade of red. I've been swapping through a few sets of brake pads to manage different driving conditions, and finally decided the best thing for me was to upgrade everything in one go. What sold me on it was the size difference in pads for the 4- and 6-piston front calipers. Going to a 6-piston set gives a massive increase in pad surface area.


Evysojf

51 posts

90 months

Tuesday 5th December 2017
quotequote all
Very nice! Thanks for the write up and info. Have had similar thoughts myself after a couple of squeaky bum moments. I agree that the standard brake performance doesn't quite match the sports pack chassis.

Rappa

625 posts

269 months

Tuesday 5th December 2017
quotequote all
Good write up.

As said before what was the trip across the Alps like?

Sean

Squaremeal

Original Poster:

180 posts

138 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
quotequote all
telum01 said:
I'm planning to do this exact same job on my grey Vantage - even the same shade of red. I've been swapping through a few sets of brake pads to manage different driving conditions, and finally decided the best thing for me was to upgrade everything in one go. What sold me on it was the size difference in pads for the 4- and 6-piston front calipers. Going to a 6-piston set gives a massive increase in pad surface area.

Wow... thanks for that contribution. The picture says it all.

If you don't mind I'll borrow that pic when I cross post into sixspeed.

Evysojf

51 posts

90 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
quotequote all
With the increased size of the chamfer on the larger pads, am I right to assume that this upgrade is less susceptible to brake squeal too then? And has anyone had this upgrade long enough to know... Vantage s owners?

telum01

987 posts

114 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
quotequote all
Squaremeal said:
Wow... thanks for that contribution. The picture says it all.

If you don't mind I'll borrow that pic when I cross post into sixspeed.
I had originally taken the picture to comment on a post on 6speed a couple months ago so it is over there:
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/aston-martin/4...

I've got a bunch more pictures and discussion of pads elsewhere, and a video or two covering it (with another about to be made this weekend), so the info is out there. I don't want to hijack the thread any more than I have - I was just posting the comparison pic to help people understand a major factor for why the brake upgrade is so worthwhile.

Evysojf said:
With the increased size of the chamfer on the larger pads, am I right to assume that this upgrade is less susceptible to brake squeal too then? And has anyone had this upgrade long enough to know... Vantage s owners?
It's pretty much eliminates it entirely. The OEM pads for the 4-piston front calipers aren't chamfered at all, which is the main reason why those pads squeal (and is one of the major complaints of the pads - the others being dust and cost). The pads in the picture are both Porterfield R4-S pads, which is why the 4-piston pads (bottom) are chamfered.



Ken Figenus

5,678 posts

116 months

Tuesday 12th December 2017
quotequote all
Guess those are Porterfield pads Rich? Will be putting those pads on and a new set of slotted disks on the Rapide in new year.

As an aside a set of Rapide disks and six pots may also be worth looking into (new or used) as an upgrade for a DB9? Rapide (despite being DB9 based) has six pots and huge disks - on 20" wheels mind.

telum01

987 posts

114 months

Tuesday 12th December 2017
quotequote all
Yes sir, they're both Porterfield R4-S pads.

The 6-piston calipers and larger rotors are going to be an upgrade for a V8 Vantage or DB9 that has 4-piston front brake calipers. The only downside aside from cost is the additional weight, but it's a worthwhile tradeoff given the better braking performance.

SS972

591 posts

182 months

Tuesday 12th December 2017
quotequote all
Ken Figenus said:
Guess those are Porterfield pads Rich? Will be putting those pads on and a new set of slotted disks on the Rapide in new year.

As an aside a set of Rapide disks and six pots may also be worth looking into (new or used) as an upgrade for a DB9? Rapide (despite being DB9 based) has six pots and huge disks - on 20" wheels mind.
Pretty sure the wheel PCD are different between DB9 and Rapide

Phuketpaul

122 posts

31 months

Saturday 30th October 2021
quotequote all
I'm looking to fit the 6 pot calipers and 380 or 405mm discs to my 2006 DB9, as the standard brakes do not inspire confidence.

I assume the bolts have different spacing for the 2 different calipers (the 6 pots look identical to my RS6 calipers and the bolt spacing is about 60mm larger), does anyone sell the brackets or would I need to get a bespoke set built?

8Tech

2,136 posts

197 months

Saturday 30th October 2021
quotequote all
You may get wheel interference with 405mm discs, my 400mm discs with the 8-pots just clear with 20" wheels. 21" wheels would be a safer bet for 405's.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Looks like the OP has has later spec AM calipers installed on Wilwood style off the shelf discs

Edited by 8Tech on Saturday 30th October 14:49


Edited by 8Tech on Saturday 30th October 14:50

Phuketpaul

122 posts

31 months

Saturday 30th October 2021
quotequote all
8Tech said:
You may get wheel interfearance with 405mm discs, my 400mm discs with the 8-pots just clear with 20" wheels. 21" wheels would be a safer bet for 405's.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I have 410mm discs on my RS6 with the same calipers and 20" wheels with a reasonable amount of clearance, the calipers don't protrude too far beyond the disc.

The RS6 comes optionally with 420mm CC discs with 8 pots and they fit too.


8Tech

2,136 posts

197 months

Saturday 30th October 2021
quotequote all
Phuketpaul said:
8Tech said:
You may get wheel interfearance with 405mm discs, my 400mm discs with the 8-pots just clear with 20" wheels. 21" wheels would be a safer bet for 405's.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I have 410mm discs on my RS6 with the same calipers and 20" wheels with a reasonable amount of clearance, the calipers don't protrude too far beyond the disc.

The RS6 comes optionally with 420mm CC discs with 8 pots and they fit too.

Obviously depends on the inner profile of the wheel and the caliper overhang over the disc. Your Audi wheel is pretty flat in from the rim whereas my wheels step in to reduce the diameter available.

Phuketpaul

122 posts

31 months

Saturday 30th October 2021
quotequote all
Just measured the clearance, I have 40mm minimum clearance to the rim so assuming the 6 pots don't use any additional room I could potentially use upto 435mm discs with these wheels.

However as the Aston is lighter ( and more evenly balanced front to rear) and much slower than the RS6 380 or 405 would be quite sufficient.


Squaremeal

Original Poster:

180 posts

138 months

Sunday 31st October 2021
quotequote all
8Tech said:
You may get wheel interference with 405mm discs, my 400mm discs with the 8-pots just clear with 20" wheels. 21" wheels would be a safer bet for 405's.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Looks like the OP has has later spec AM calipers installed on Wilwood style off the shelf discs

Edited by 8Tech on Saturday 30th October 14:49


Edited by 8Tech on Saturday 30th October 14:50
They aren't Wilwoods - they are Brembo's - the same OEM larger floating disks same as used on the period Vantage S.

Also if you want a shock have a look at the picture in this section of the Bamford Website - look at the difference in brake pad size!

https://bamfordrose.com/road-car-upgrades/v12-upgr...



Edited by Squaremeal on Sunday 31st October 06:53

Wilky7

58 posts

193 months

Thursday 4th November 2021
quotequote all
Squaremeal said:
Just for interest I thought I'd jot down some of my thoughts and opinions about this upgrade which I hope maybe of interest.

For the purposes of this post I won't go into CCB upgrades - simply because of my Luddite prejudices in regard to CCBs for road use! - Oh and the extra expense of such an upgrade!

But I diverge!

Early DB9's and Vantages have 355mm Brembo brake disks with four piston callipers. The Vantage S introduced an upgraded braking system (DB9 moved to CCB's) which can be retro fitted to the earlier models.

Why do the upgrade? Certainly speaking from my experience with the DB9 I was never that happy with the brakes. They exhibited a very wooden feel and were difficult to modulate with jerky stops all too common at lower speeds. Indeed I often felt I had something like this on the car rather than the performance braking system the Aston demanded.



These characteristics considerably detracted my enjoyment of spirited driving. In addition brake fade became noticeable on such drives. All of which proved to be a real chore on mountain roads - I'm not a track day person.

The brake upgrade tackles these issues in two ways:

Firstly the front brakes, which at least in a DB9 do most of the work, are upgraded from Brembo 355mm to Brembo 380mm. The heavy duty disk is now bell mounted and the larger disk provides a bigger braking surface and more resistance to braking before fade. Additionally the new disks save about 0.4kg per corner in unsprung weight - the upgraded callipers may negate this however.



Secondly the front brake callipers are upgraded from a Brembo four piston to a very rigid (solid cast) Brembo six piston calliper complete with a larger brake pad fitment. There is now more pad surface to modulate and a stiffer more accurate calliper to transfer your braking demands. This dramatically improves braking performance and feel.

The upgrade kit is available from Brembo directly however I would recommend expert fitting (many reputable Aston specialists offer this upgrade) as I understand there are a few little gotchas on fitment and... well, it's the brake (oh and one other thing. The upgrade provides the perfect opportunity to check the condition of the front bearings whilst the upgrade is being undertaken)!

The upgrade is quite pricey (the parts alone see to that) - however if you really drive your car I cannot recommend it highly enough. It dramatically transformed my Aston.

On a recent blast across the Alps I suffered no brake fade. The increased braking power and feel of well modulated brakes (as opposed to the "wooden" feeling original set up) also added to my confidence in the DB making the journey all the more enjoyable.

Finally the upgrade does provide a nice cosmetic boost to the car, with the purposefully filled out front wheels displaying the new bell housings. It also offers the opportunity to personalise your Aston with bespoke calliper colours as you're replacing the front set anyway so some painting will always be needed.

In my case I wanted red callipers but not the bright red standard Aston colour. I wanted a darker red to complement the shade of the rear lights. It's a small touch but I couldn't be happier

Finally a special thanks to Mike and the Bamford Rose boys for installing such a worthwhile upgrade and helping source the colour I wanted.







Edited by Squaremeal on Wednesday 6th December 13:13
Great write up. Do you mind me asking how much this set up cost?

Squaremeal

Original Poster:

180 posts

138 months

Thursday 4th November 2021
quotequote all
About £5.7k excluding VAT.