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E61 M5, 'Red Cog' with no symptoms.

E61 M5, 'Red Cog' with no symptoms.

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ecain63

Original Poster:

9,269 posts

97 months

Sunday 26th December 2010
quotequote all
On top of my tailgate wiring issue, which will be resolved by the stealer on the 4th Jan (glass opening switch now doesnt work at all) ive had the 'Red Cog of Death' come up on the dash today. The strange thing is that there were no symptoms or reductions in performance that i could see / feel.

It was a cold night last night and as has occured after previous cold nights or heavy frosts the gear changes have been a little slow for the first half a mile or so. According to other owners the sluggish changes when cold are fairly common so long as they dont feel abrupt. My 'Red Cog' appeared as i changed from 1st to 2nd coming out of my street. I'd already gone from Reverse to 1st so it wasnt the first change of the journey.

The warning stayed on the dash for 15 seconds or so then disappeared. I checked the control messages afew minutes later and there was a nice, green OK - No Faults indicator there. As i said, there was no loss of performance, the gear changes were smooth in all settings and M mode was as brutal as always.

I thought the E61 and all 65 plate onward E60's were more resilient. Ive had no 'Orange Cog' either which surely would be the usual progression. Any chance this could be related to my wiring issue or maybe a software fault?

Eddie

Edited by ecain63 on Sunday 26th December 16:36

Beedub

1,870 posts

148 months

Sunday 26th December 2010
quotequote all
ecain you not having the best of luck with this car at all, being a z4m owner i cant help you but do hope you get these niggles sorted so you can enjoy you m5!!

ecain63

Original Poster:

9,269 posts

97 months

Sunday 26th December 2010
quotequote all
Thanks mate, i hope so too. Ive done a bit of reading now and im hoping its just a software fault / trip. Took the car out again earlier and had no issues. I WILL be telling BMW about it though.

Beedub

1,870 posts

148 months

Monday 27th December 2010
quotequote all
just make sure you get bmw to sort EVERYTHING, they can and should put these things right, let them deal with it, like i say i REALLY hope you get these nigglles sorted, i will definatly be worth the effort so keep truckin and lean on your dealer.

ecain63

Original Poster:

9,269 posts

97 months

Monday 27th December 2010
quotequote all
A little more research last night and today has revealled a link between the 'excessive battery drain' message ive been suffering (caused by my tailgate wiring problem) and spurious 'Red Cog' faults. I had no Red Cog today despite my fiddling and testing of every setting. The tailgate glass switch is completely inoperable however, but it did open itself a couple of times in the supermarket car park today. Im thinking this is the root of my problems. 4th of Jan is a bloody long way away.

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robsti

8,464 posts

128 months

Monday 27th December 2010
quotequote all
By next Xmas you will be having your Xmas dinner with a new best friend, BMW warranty manager! wink

Edited by robsti on Monday 27th December 14:32

ecain63

Original Poster:

9,269 posts

97 months

Monday 27th December 2010
quotequote all
robsti said:
By next Xmas you will be having your Xmas dinner with a new best friend, BMW warranty manager! wink

Edited by robsti on Monday 27th December 14:32
My experience with Warranty and Service managers is already legendary. When i had my RS6 the Audi Warranty and Servise manager was only interested in attending my funeral by the time i'd finished with him. I always got my car fixed though, whether it was by Audi or via a 3rd party instructing Audi on my behalf. The BMW service team at my local stealer have been thoroughly introduced to my ways and things seem to be working so here's hoping.

It not the faults that annoy me though, its the whole experience of driving a car that should be perfect, but in reality worries the life out of you on a daily basis. I dont think that there is a performance family car that is any different so its best to just accept the hastles and make sure the warranty is sound. If only the loan cars were a direct comaprison, then the repair period might also be less stressful. A Mini One just doesnt cut it!!

robsti

8,464 posts

128 months

Monday 27th December 2010
quotequote all
ecain63 said:
robsti said:
By next Xmas you will be having your Xmas dinner with a new best friend, BMW warranty manager! wink

Edited by robsti on Monday 27th December 14:32
My experience with Warranty and Service managers is already legendary. When i had my RS6 the Audi Warranty and Servise manager was only interested in attending my funeral by the time i'd finished with him. I always got my car fixed though, whether it was by Audi or via a 3rd party instructing Audi on my behalf. The BMW service team at my local stealer have been thoroughly introduced to my ways and things seem to be working so here's hoping.

It not the faults that annoy me though, its the whole experience of driving a car that should be perfect, but in reality worries the life out of you on a daily basis. I dont think that there is a performance family car that is any different so its best to just accept the hastles and make sure the warranty is sound. If only the loan cars were a direct comaprison, then the repair period might also be less stressful. A Mini One just doesnt cut it!!
Good luck!
Merry Xmas.

ecain63

Original Poster:

9,269 posts

97 months

Monday 27th December 2010
quotequote all
Thanks mate, Happy New Year too.

ecain63

Original Poster:

9,269 posts

97 months

Saturday 8th January 2011
quotequote all
Ive been topping up the m5board with feedback on my car issues but had forgotten there were some on here who were interested in the causes and cures. I do apologise. So, here's how it went.

On my second planned visit regarding the wiring and tailgate problem i took a few minutes to have a chat with the BMW tech and explain what info i had unearthed in my christmas search for answers. I mentioned the design flaws regarding the hinges and how tight the wiring is that runs through them.

After 1 1/2 hours i got a phone call from the service manager confirming that there were 2 broken wires within the far right hand router that runs between the roof and the tailgate. He also informed me that the other 3 wiring routes were worn and would require replacing. So, new looms ordered and an estimated return date of the following day. Excellent.

The following afternoon i got a call to say the job was done and i could collect the car when i was ready. The warranty covered any expense but the service manager did inform me that the invoice was for an eye watering amount. I turned up at the workshop and collected my keys.

Testing the tailgate glass switch proved the wiring was ok. The annoying 'battery drain' warning was gone also and the car started much quicker than it had done previously. On driving it the gearchanges were much quicker and far more positive so the SMG pump was obviously getting all the juice it needed.

The service manager explained to me before i left that they could not find any sign of the Red Cog warning code on either the key fob or via the ODB port so put it down to computer confusion at low current. He did however show me codes that proved the SMG wasnt getting the required current, thus making the shifts slower and less positive.

So, i think we can assume that the wiring was the problem. We can also conclude that these cars are far too complicated and twitchy about their living conditions. Who would have guessed the tailgate wiring could mess up the operation of a gear box? I just hope the poor shifts didnt put any excess stress on the clutch or reduce its life span.

Anyway, things are looking good now and im enjoying having the beast back on the road and making the most of a worry free ownership before the next thing crops up.

Eddie

Toilet Duck

960 posts

107 months

Saturday 8th January 2011
quotequote all
ecain63 said:
The warranty covered any expense but the service manager did inform me that the invoice was for an eye watering amount.
Out of curiosity, what was the cost he quoted?

ecain63

Original Poster:

9,269 posts

97 months

Saturday 8th January 2011
quotequote all
Toilet Duck said:
ecain63 said:
The warranty covered any expense but the service manager did inform me that the invoice was for an eye watering amount.
Out of curiosity, what was the cost he quoted?
I don't get a copy of the invoice til this tuesday but the parts were circa £800 + vat, and then 5 1/2hrs labour at £115hr + vat. About £1700 all in.

Taita

5,838 posts

125 months

Saturday 8th January 2011
quotequote all
ecain63 said:
Toilet Duck said:
ecain63 said:
The warranty covered any expense but the service manager did inform me that the invoice was for an eye watering amount.
Out of curiosity, what was the cost he quoted?
I don't get a copy of the invoice til this tuesday but the parts were circa £800 + vat, and then 5 1/2hrs labour at £115hr + vat. About £1700 all in.
<blink> Good God!

Cheburator mk2

2,205 posts

121 months

Monday 10th January 2011
quotequote all
ecain63 said:
I don't get a copy of the invoice til this tuesday but the parts were circa £800 + vat, and then 5 1/2hrs labour at £115hr + vat. About £1700 all in.
Funny how some people think they can buy a "cheap" E60/E61 M5 and have a fighting fund for when things go wrong instead of having a proper warranty

ecain63

Original Poster:

9,269 posts

97 months

Monday 10th January 2011
quotequote all
Cheburator mk2 said:
ecain63 said:
I don't get a copy of the invoice til this tuesday but the parts were circa £800 + vat, and then 5 1/2hrs labour at £115hr + vat. About £1700 all in.
Funny how some people think they can buy a "cheap" E60/E61 M5 and have a fighting fund for when things go wrong instead of having a proper warranty
I think this is gonna be the problem when the E60's get down to £15k in a year or so. Ford Focus priced car with Ferrari bills. I bet most of the cheap ones won't be eligible for BMW warranty either. Sod that for a game of risk.

isee

3,710 posts

105 months

Monday 10th January 2011
quotequote all
Hi Eddie, is it an Interlagos blue one with "VFE" in the reg plate?
Because if it is, I am glad to know I made the right choice binning it off before any more things went wrong then.

Sorry to hear you are having a mare mate.

ecain63

Original Poster:

9,269 posts

97 months

Monday 10th January 2011
quotequote all
isee said:
Hi Eddie, is it an Interlagos blue one with "VFE" in the reg plate?
Because if it is, I am glad to know I made the right choice binning it off before any more things went wrong then.

Sorry to hear you are having a mare mate.
No mine is a Saphire black one. The thing is that it wasn't a big problem, just an expensive and annoying one.

Skrambles

1,129 posts

186 months

Monday 10th January 2011
quotequote all
ecain63 said:
I think this is gonna be the problem when the E60's get down to £15k in a year or so. Ford Focus priced car with Ferrari bills. I bet most of the cheap ones won't be eligible for BMW warranty either. Sod that for a game of risk.
What are the criteria for the warranty? I can't imagine having an m5 without one.

ecain63

Original Poster:

9,269 posts

97 months

Monday 10th January 2011
quotequote all
Skrambles said:
ecain63 said:
I think this is gonna be the problem when the E60's get down to £15k in a year or so. Ford Focus priced car with Ferrari bills. I bet most of the cheap ones won't be eligible for BMW warranty either. Sod that for a game of risk.
What are the criteria for the warranty? I can't imagine having an m5 without one.
It has to be either; still under 3 year manufacture warranty allowing you to extend, or; have a full BMW service history with less than 60k on the clock. After that its a no-go! You'd be amazed how cheap the warranty is too. I pay £89 a month for mine, fully comp with no excess. Audi wanted over £2500 a year for my RS6 (although the price was the same for any 4.2litre+ audi) under a similar scheme. No brainer!

I still reckon the later model M5's (06 on) are pretty bomb proof, but its the common niggles such as wiring, bushes, rods etc that will shock even the deepest pocket. This isn't an Aldi car, this is an M&S car! In fact its a Harrods car!

Skrambles

1,129 posts

186 months

Monday 10th January 2011
quotequote all
ecain63 said:
Skrambles said:
ecain63 said:
I think this is gonna be the problem when the E60's get down to £15k in a year or so. Ford Focus priced car with Ferrari bills. I bet most of the cheap ones won't be eligible for BMW warranty either. Sod that for a game of risk.
What are the criteria for the warranty? I can't imagine having an m5 without one.
It has to be either; still under 3 year manufacture warranty allowing you to extend, or; have a full BMW service history with less than 60k on the clock. After that its a no-go! You'd be amazed how cheap the warranty is too. I pay £89 a month for mine, fully comp with no excess. Audi wanted over £2500 a year for my RS6 (although the price was the same for any 4.2litre+ audi) under a similar scheme. No brainer!

I still reckon the later model M5's (06 on) are pretty bomb proof, but its the common niggles such as wiring, bushes, rods etc that will shock even the deepest pocket. This isn't an Aldi car, this is an M&S car! In fact its a Harrods car!
£89! That's ridiculously good value for an m5. I pay £95 for the x5 (with a 250 xs).

Glad you haven't lost the faith! It's a truly awesome car.