Vapes and Vauxhalls hatred

Vapes and Vauxhalls hatred

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Fermit

Original Poster:

12,787 posts

99 months

Thursday 16th March 2023
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What is it with Pistonheads and looking down noses at these two things?

I mean, as recently as the 90's approaching one third of the UK population smoked. I did, 20 Marlboro red a day. Accordingly I now vape, and it's been the only alternative which has kept me off them. Consider also that Nicotine has by many been considered to be as addictive, if not more so than heroin then many will really struggle to stay off the dreaded Cancer sticks! Surely they are comparatively a good thing, keeping many alive.

And Vauxhall, yes, we own one. A 2015 2.0d Elite Nav, same inc the colour as the below pic.

You know what, it's a very good car. Plenty quick enough (295lb ft torque) frugal, well equipped, and it's been incredibly reliable over approaching 100k miles. And as for the looks, tell me that if you took the Griffin badges off it, and replaced them with something German that people wouldn't be swooning over the looks.

When I had a bump in it in 2017 we were loaned a then very new Mondeo estate. I was pleased to get back in the Insignia after a stint with it. The Ford did have far nicer seats, but IMO that was about it. And for the record, I've owned 3 mk3 Mondeos previously, and would say that all things considered they're the most all round able cars I've owned.

Isn't it time to look past the snobbery of these things?

'Our' car -



Edited by Fermit on Thursday 16th March 10:35

Fermit

Original Poster:

12,787 posts

99 months

Thursday 16th March 2023
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Lo-Fi said:
So you're saying the MK3 Mondeo is better?
Things have moved on, but yes, as I said, they're the best all things considered model I've ever owned. Glad you're able to read.

Rusted far worse than the VX mind.

Fermit

Original Poster:

12,787 posts

99 months

Thursday 16th March 2023
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Byker28i said:
We had insignias as pool cars. My issue with them was visibility, rear window was a weird shape/size and being short, the huge a pillars blocked the view at junctions.

I'll grant you this, visibility isn't a strong point of it. You could loose a bus behind the massive C Pillar.

Never mind one twice had full brake failure, pedal to the floor

Unlucky or poor maintenance I guess. In approaching 100k this has never happened to us.

Vapes - now encouraging many kids to smoke as they see they as 'cool', and noone want to smell your fruity flavour or whatever it is you have today.

Now be honest, this is a side issue. This is down to ethics around marketing, and users consideration. Personally I do my darndest to keep my vape away from others (my wife has Asthma)

Edited by Byker28i on Thursday 16th March 10:53

Fermit

Original Poster:

12,787 posts

99 months

Thursday 16th March 2023
quotequote all
LunarOne said:
Fermit said:
And as for the looks, tell me that if you took the Griffin badges off it, and replaced them with something German that people wouldn't be swooning over the looks.
If you took the Griffin badges off it, and replaced them with something German, people wouldn't be swooning over the looks.
Why? Because It's a picture of non-descript blandness. Like a late 1990s American car. You wouldn't look twice no matter what badge was on it. But add a Vauxhall badge to a painfully bland car and you have total lack of interest. Nobody aspires to own a Vauxhall. With the exception of the Astra GTC VXR, the Monaro and the VX220, they are nothing more than appliances. Nothing wrong with that. But I think most Pistonheaders are people who are interested in interesting cars rather than washing machines and Vauxhalls. We're not looking down on them. We're not looking at them at all.

As for vapes, my sister does it. It's just as bad as smoking - not for the vaper, but for everyone else. The constant Darth Vader noises, the clouds of vapour and the disgusting smelling "flavours". No thank you.
My wife is obsessed with aesthetics, getting everything just so. I'd over-looked the VX, she saw one and suggested it.

Styling wise I consider it very similar to this Merc. I have read on these very pages numerous people saying they think them nice looking.




Edited by Fermit on Thursday 16th March 11:25

Fermit

Original Poster:

12,787 posts

99 months

Thursday 16th March 2023
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Raccaccoonie said:
Vaping, just makes you look a massive tool, and don't buy that it is better than smoking.
Really?! Vaping exposes you to far fewer toxins than cigarettes, and vapes do not produce tar or carbon monoxide, 2 of the most harmful elements of tobacco.

Fermit

Original Poster:

12,787 posts

99 months

Thursday 16th March 2023
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ZedLeg said:
With regards to vaping as a method to quit smoking, the evidence is dubious. Also the current trend for disposable vape pens has to be the most stupid thing that we have come up with for a long time.
I can only speak as I find it. I started smoking at 13, I'm now 46 (I think!) First attempt to quit was using only will power. I lasted a month. Second attempt was using Nicotine gum/patches. Folded after a year. I quit over 5 years ago, and not had so much as a drag of a cigarette since.

And I'm inclined to agree with you RE the disposable pens. The marketing of them in day-glow colours seriously needs to be banned. They did similar with cigarette packets, forcing them to be manufactured in a putrid olive shade.

Fermit

Original Poster:

12,787 posts

99 months

Thursday 16th March 2023
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Hub said:
Vaping was billed as a way to get off cigarettes, but it seems that those who have swapped smoking for vaping have no intention of weaning themselves off it, in fact for most it is never out of their hand

Well, I have been perpetually reducing both the Nicotine strength of my liquids, and the regularity of use. I can see a point that I'm off them.

So yes smokers and vapers are a bit foolish really (being kind!)
For most of my adult life I have considered that starting smoking has been one of my most foolish life decisions.

Edited by Fermit on Thursday 16th March 11:46

Fermit

Original Poster:

12,787 posts

99 months

Thursday 16th March 2023
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PaulD86 said:
Loads of stuff, generally about reliability of VX.
Firstly, I do agree with you about the excitement element. Whilst I rate ours, it's never a car that you pick up the keys for, to go out for a hoon in, just for the sake of it. I also agree that the Corsa of the mid 2010's variety was a dog. A female mate had one, and it was nasty.

I'm just about to take our Insignia for an MOT re-test. It only failed on a damaged rear spring, with no other advisories. Not too shabby for a circa 110k car.

Edited by Fermit on Thursday 16th March 12:37

Fermit

Original Poster:

12,787 posts

99 months

Thursday 16th March 2023
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Bennet said:
You don't need anyone on the internet to agree with you or validate your choice of car. If you like it, that's enough.

Keep the car and quit the vaping. Nothing cool about vaping.
It was in response to it being a sea of bland, whilst a very similar design receiving numerous praise on its looks from these very pages. And agreed, we're all different, no qualms there. However, when every *third page of PH features VX bashing you tend to get a tad bored of the worn out rhetoric.

  • - yes, I exaggerate.
Edited by Fermit on Thursday 16th March 12:53

Fermit

Original Poster:

12,787 posts

99 months

Thursday 16th March 2023
quotequote all
Raccaccoonie said:
Fermit said:
Really?! Vaping exposes you to far fewer toxins than cigarettes, and vapes do not produce tar or carbon monoxide, 2 of the most harmful elements of tobacco.
https://www.lung.org/quit-smoking/e-cigarettes-vaping/impact-of-e-cigarettes-on-lung

That report made clear: using e-cigarettes causes health risks. It concluded that e-cigarettes both contain and emit a number of potentially toxic substances. The Academies' report also states there is moderate evidence that youth who use e-cigarettes are at increased risk for cough and wheezing and an increase in asthma exacerbations.

A study from the University of North Carolina found that the two primary ingredients found in e-cigarettes—propylene glycol and vegetable glycerin—are toxic to cells and that the more ingredients in an e-liquid, the greater the toxicity.2
E-cigarettes produce a number of dangerous chemicals including acetaldehyde, acrolein, and formaldehyde. These aldehydes can cause lung disease, as well as cardiovascular (heart) disease.3
E-cigarettes also contain acrolein, a herbicide primarily used to kill weeds. It can cause acute lung injury and COPD and may cause asthma and lung cancer.4

You get one chance at life, I would want my lungs to be working as best as they can
Which is why in my OP I stated 'comparatively a good thing'

Yes, they're not up there with a Tomato for being great for you, but they're a huge improvement on filling your lungs with tar.

Fermit

Original Poster:

12,787 posts

99 months

Thursday 16th March 2023
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stickleback123 said:
don't expect people not to think you're a bit of a Morlock if it's a habit almost exclusively found among Morlocks.
For the number of people out there who have smoked that is a ridiculous sweeping statement. You do know that Albert Einstein smoked? Yeah, he's a proper Morlock. If I were to state the old cliche of 'hairdressers car' about your MX5 would you be happy?

Fermit

Original Poster:

12,787 posts

99 months

Thursday 16th March 2023
quotequote all
stickleback123 said:
When Einstein smoked the health implications weren't widely known or understood.
Keep digging. His doctors routinely told him to kick the habit

https://notevenpast.org/what-killed-albert-einstei...

From the article

Einstein’s doctors ordered him to stop smoking during his various illnesses. He sporadically obeyed. When friends gave him gifts of tobacco during these brief periods of abstinence, Einstein would open the gift, sniff to enjoy the aroma, and then give it away to someone else. But Einstein always succumbed to the overwhelming temptation of his beloved vice. He often resorted to taking tobacco handouts from friends. Dr. Plesch especially felt sorry for the needy, embarrassed Einstein and provided him with a steady supply of tobacco and cigars despite the orders of Einstein’s other doctors and second wife, Elsa.

Fermit

Original Poster:

12,787 posts

99 months

Thursday 16th March 2023
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samoht said:
What do Vaping and Vauxhalls have in common?

Vaping is cheaper than smoking (due to tax) and Vauxhalls are generally cheaper than most equivalent cars (due to the brand image).

Therefore they're probably both choices more often made by people with less money to spend.

So I think the 'hatred' you mention is probably at root snobbery, and looking down on the lifestyle choices that are associated with poor people.
Jesus fking Christ! What clue have you got about our income? We are far from poor thanks.

Fermit

Original Poster:

12,787 posts

99 months

Thursday 16th March 2023
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ZedLeg said:
So Einstein was addicted to nicotine, what's that supposed to prove.
It was in response to a massive over-generilisation of 'don't expect people not to think you're a bit of a Morlock if it's a habit almost exclusively found among Morlocks'

As an ex-smoker yourself are you happy to be branded a Morlock?

Fermit

Original Poster:

12,787 posts

99 months

Thursday 16th March 2023
quotequote all
samoht said:
Fermit said:
Jesus fking Christ! What clue have you got about our income? We are far from poor thanks.
I'm sorry, I've clearly failed to communicate what I meant.

I wasn't saying that everyone who vapes or who drives a Vauxhall is poor.

I was saying that since both are relatively speaking better value, on average they will tend to appeal to those with less money to spend.

In the same way, if you calculated the average income of Aldi customers and of Waitrose customers, the latter group would have a higher average income. Of course, that doesn't mean that you wouldn't find some wealthy people shopping at Aldi.

And I'm further suggesting that this average pattern leads to people being snobbish about vapes and about Vauxhalls, by association.

Sorry, it genuinely wasn't meant as an insult, I was attempting to explain a stereotype not to exercise it.
Ah, OK. Apologies, I misconstrued your post.

Fermit

Original Poster:

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99 months

Thursday 16th March 2023
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Fastdruid said:
The thing felt like it was designed by multiple committees that never ever talked to one another and as a "family" car it was seriously lacking.

The rear seat belts clips were recessed in-board so the childrens car seats sat "on" them, meant they couldn't do their own seat belts. this bit I get. My wife's gran always struggled getting her belt in. Is it a bad thing mind, to ensure that you are happy they are belted up properly?

The rear headrests got in the way of the childrens seats...and they wouldn't come out without folding the seats down because the roof line slopped down so much.on ours the headrests adjust so their base is all the way up to the top of the seat back. Did your example not?

The boot was too big. I know that seems a stupid thing to say for a family car but it was so massive anything near the seat you couldn't reach and because of the hatchback style high boot entrance was a royal pain.Surely this illustration applies to many estates out there? Its size is something we liked, how much it can fit in. Our one group gripe is the low floor to ceiling height. Our Dobe x has to crouch or lie.

The (electronic) handbrake was annoying (and while generally I find electronic handbrakes to be a solution in search of a problem the one on our VW is absolutely fine).never had any issue with this, surely it's an on off button, what makes one good or bad?

The parcel shelf wouldn't stay on. Agreed. This is a bit of crap design all over.

Handling was vague, uninspiring and at best meh.whilst is certainly doesn't 'talk' to you like certain cars I have driven, I can cover point to point in it pretty damn quick. The steering also has a reasonable amount of feel. I can't say what tyres your loan was on (and you probably didn't check either) but ours always has Goodyear F1's fitted.

The engine (1.8 petrol) was horrible, it was like the designer had tried to make it as diesel like as possible but in doing so lost *all* of the appeal of a petrol and was seriously lacking vs a diesel. Pointless to rev as there was nothing up top, basically a (small) chunk of low torque followed by nothing. IIRC it was meant to be 140hp or so, no idea where they hid that. It was a turgid lump of st. ours is the 2.0d, so I can't comment

The thing that summed it up for me was the handbook. It was jammed, diagonally into the glove box (and so pretty much occupying all of it) because it didn't fit anywhere else. On some brands you have a nicely engineered compartment for the handbook, or it nestles neatly in the bottom of the glove box. Not for Vauxhall, the committee that had designed the handbook hadn't had a single thought about where it would fit and just didn't care.whilst the glovebox comment is true, ours sits comfortably in the passenger door pocket.
Edited by Fermit on Thursday 16th March 17:24

Fermit

Original Poster:

12,787 posts

99 months

Thursday 16th March 2023
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Fermit said:
Fastdruid said:
We're going back 8 years now so I can't remember the exact details, just that it was annoying. From memory it was that I never knew which way to operate it because it worked both ways. Or something.

Appreciating something bugged you, but it's a click up to activate, and a firmish push on the accelerator to de-activate

The thing that summed it up for me was the handbook. It was jammed, diagonally into the glove box (and so pretty much occupying all of it) because it didn't fit anywhere else. On some brands you have a nicely engineered compartment for the handbook, or it nestles neatly in the bottom of the glove box. Not for Vauxhall, the committee that had designed the handbook hadn't had a single thought about where it would fit and just didn't care.whilst the glovebox comment is true, ours sits comfortably in the passenger door pocket.

Sure...but then the passenger door pocket can't be used for other stuff!
it would only otherwise be filled with my CD's, as the wife is always bking me about them being everywhere!

Fermit

Original Poster:

12,787 posts

99 months

Thursday 16th March 2023
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457892345 said:
Until the first corner.
Whilst I don't think it's strictly true, your comment reminded me of the below gag. Years ago I had a Focus ST3, and a near neighbour had an Astra VXR. He always rinsed my car for sts and giggles, I did accordingly back. Tagged him in this posted on Facebook (except it was Astra stated on the pic)
He borked the engine in the end going for v-max somewhere in the 140's, so it can't have actually been that scary handling wise



Edited by Fermit on Thursday 16th March 20:39

Fermit

Original Poster:

12,787 posts

99 months

Thursday 16th March 2023
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Raccaccoonie said:
One for the vapers, what is it with choosing the most vile flavours that linger in the air, amd why they have to make massive plumes of vape?
You tend to find a flavour that resonates with your taste buds. Mine is Aniseed. Tobacco flavours IME are grim as fk. About as authentic as a Ralf Loreen rip off. RE your second point, you take what the market provides. I recently had to replace my device, and whilst I've historically had low vapour devices, this one does plume somewhat more. I do try to keep it out of others airways, but am guilty on occasions of blowing vape out of the drivers window. Apparently I deserve shooting for this rolleyes

Fermit

Original Poster:

12,787 posts

99 months

Thursday 16th March 2023
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lord trumpton said:
Shouldn't Vauxhalls and Vapers be discussed in the 'council' thread rather than starting a fresh thread?
Succinctly demonstrating the crux of my OP.