718 GT4 - new engine required, and a tale of calamity.

[kmpowell]

After 3 yrs, my 718 GT4 ownership is coming to a totally unexpected and abrupt end

After what can only be described as a "farcical and calamitous" 5+ mths with Porsche GB, Porsche Financial Services, and my local OPC, I'm now going through a total rejection and refund process of my car with my original supplying dealer.

As some of you may remember, I specced the car myself in 2021, and took delivery in 2022. So I've owned it from new, where it's been used but also totally babied and respected i.e. engine warmed up before playing etc etc.

What started in May/June as an engine management warning being triggered when the car was under load, has eventually resulted in calamity from what I mistakingly thought would be a quick fix. My local OPC claimed it was a faulty coil pack, but immediately after me picking it up and driving away, the same EML fault happened. So I took it straight back. They had it for another week and claimed it was a faulty injector, so they replaced that... but guess what happened the moment I drove it away... yes you're right, the same EML warning trigger, so I took it back. Another week passes and they now claim it was/is a misfire so needed another new injector, but this time they also claim to have done compression tests with Porsche DE, and an oil change. I got the call to pick it up, and yes you guessed right the moment I got the car on the dual carriageway under load, the same EML warning happened.

At this point I'm pretty pissed off. So they take the car back for a 4th time. this time they claim to have replaced more coil packs and injectors, and some two months later after first dropping it off with them, my car is supposedly ready to be picked up and they assure me it's fixed. But you can already guess what happens next, this time I hadn't even got to the dual-carriageway and the same EML trigger appears. I take it back and the service manager basically tells me it's not their problem anymore, the car is taking up a ramp for paying customer, and that I need to speak to my supplying dealer.

So I nurse the car home, and it sits on my driveway over the summer unused, as I battle Porsche FS and Porsche GB.

I contact Porsche GB, to raise a complaint (and ask for help), but nobody calls me back, when they do (a week after I first logged my call) the person has no clue as to the actual issue, and is quite frankly a rude arrogant idiot. They then pass my case to somebody else who at first seems to be helpful, but she transpires to they have zero power or influence and is just following a crib sheet.

Porsche financial services on the other hand go one better (worse). The car is technically owned by them (as it's financed with them), so I am told to ring and ask for their advice. They instead put me in a holding pattern which takes a month to even get acknowledgment to my call, and another month to get any sort of response. Eventually they incorrectly treat it as a complaint. Not only do they ignore the actual problem with the car, but they reply to me saying that the car is fixed so it's not their liability and they can't help! As of today I can no longer get a response out of them and I'm told to speak to the ombudsman if I want to take it further.

Last month, as a last ditch attempt get some help, I took to emailing the Porsche UK CEO, and in 24hrs I was assigned a senior case manager who has been better, but TBH is pretty powerless, everything just gets pushed back on to my supplying dealer.

During all this my supplying dealer has been amazing. A huge shout out to Justin and Kiley at Mayfair who have chased and apologised to me and quite frankly gone above and beyond. 2 weeks ago Mayfair organised (at they own expense) for my car to be trailered to Reading for inspection. Reading service team were great (shout out to Alex there!) On their first test drive Reading unsurprisingly had the EML fault, they then did oil checks and found metal in the oil. I asked if this was new, and they said no. At this point the Gold technician working on the car said that he thought it would be mechanical failure. A few tests later and it was confirmed to me last Friday that due to excessive wear on the cylinder head, this was the reason why the fault started to be thrown up in May/June (which my local OPC unsuccessfully claimed to have fixed), actually means it needs a whole new engine, after only 3k miles of use! Porsche Germany immediately instructed them to replace the engine. Porsche GB rang me and told me I was entitled to a "refund" (even after 3yrs!), but I needed to work with Mayfair to process that.

So at this point, the car feels tainted. The problem has been cited as a manufacturing process problem with thengine. But the whole experience with Porsche GB, after spending the best part of £100k on a new car, has left me really out-of-love with the brand.

I will say again, Mayfair have been outstanding. They have share the same levels of sympathy and exasperation as I have, and although they are doing their best to try and get me into another Car (4RS, SRS or GT3), they totally understand why I want to walk.

So a whole summer of driving missed, and not a great end to what I thought was going to be my dream purchase.

Edited by kmpowell on Tuesday 28th October 10:27

[kmpowell]

Panamax said:

OK, so there's Mayfair and there's Reading. Which is the local OPC and is there a reason the car wasn't bought from there?

Not sure if I can name them tbh, due to name & shame rules on here.

The car wasn't originally bought from my local OPC, because when I went in to buy one in the summer of '21, they refused to give me an allocation due to lack of buying history with them, so I could only use them for servicing.

Edited by kmpowell on Tuesday 28th October 10:58

[kmpowell]

BertBert said:

It seems to have taken a really long time to have a conversation with the supplying dealer. Might that have been better at an earlier stage?

I totally agree, but in hindsight. At the time, I was indeed having a conversation in the background with my supplying dealer, but as the car was at my local OPC, and a case was open with Porsche GB/DE, the supplying dealer's hands were tied. Once the car was back in my hands I had to start all over again, and I mistakingly thought Porsche GB would give a st, so I gave them a chance to tell me what might happen next. When they didn't, it was at that point my supplying dealer intervened and got the car to Reading for a diagnosis.

[kmpowell]

Freakuk said:

Seems like a total run around to me from several OPC's on this unfortunately.

From my local OPC, Porsche GB, and Porsche FS, yes. A complete farce. They all pushed it amongst each other, with nobody taking any level of ownership, and more than anything they forgot (or worse still, didn't care) there was a customer caught in the middle of it all.

Honestly, if it hadn't been for my supplying dealer (Mayfair), I don't think I'd be any further forward than I was that day I took the car away from my local dealer.

[kmpowell]

alscar said:

Isounds as if you have been given 2 options- brand new engine foc with presumably a new warranty applying or your original money back with no deductions for time /mileage ie a full refund ?

Yup, a new engine foc, or a full invoice calculated refund (with milage adjustment). I've opted for the latter.

[kmpowell]

fridaypassion said:

Was it still in the 3 year manufacturer warranty when it went or extended warranty?

The first EML triggers were inside the 3yr manufacturer warranty.

[kmpowell]

nickfrog said:

Yes, shocking. And FS not supporting. I would actually go with an Ombudsman action as it's free and at least will cost FS a £650 fee. A small consolation.

I will 100% be pursuing this with the Ombudsman. Utterly disgraceful treatment when all I wanted was help and trying to do the right thing. I've tried calling the case manager twice again this week to let him know the car's now being rejected and he needs to revisit the case, and each time I'm promised that he will call me back... but he never does.

In other news... a call from Mayfair, and it's a pleasant surprise/message delivered to me. For them to try and keep me in their custom/brand, they are additionally offering me a winged GT3 allocation for summer delivery. To my own spec, no conditions.

So, they will buy-back my GT4 under the refund rejection terms discussed, and instead of me taking my money to another brand, they would like me to put that money into a GT3 allocation.

A few weekends ago I went to Ferrari and test-drove a lightly used 488 GTB, which I was sold on, but this now does make me question...

A used 488 GTB v a new (to my own spec) 992.2 GT3...

Edited by kmpowell on Thursday 30th October 13:02

[kmpowell]

Freakuk said:

I guess the question is was your next car going to be a GT3 anyway?

A GT3 was always on my dream-wishlist, but given I had zero buying history (apart from the GT4), realistically I didn't think I'd ever be given an allocation. I thought a GT4/4RS would be my limit of what they would allocate me. So, yes, to answer your question, but indirectly. With that in mind, the thought of speccing a brand new GT3 is very appealing, and given the values Porsche are underwriting on the GFV's for the .2, it looks like I wouldn't loose the shirt off my back.

Popolou said:

Curious, how they'd calculate the refund. Would that be similar to a loss adjuster doing his thing or do they use a formula?

This is what was proposed... the only money coming off the list-price refund are the OTR costs (c £2k), and £1 for every mile on the clock. So c£5k total to come off the refund amount.

Porsche FS rang me late yesterday afternoon as well, apologising and reopening my case, citing I no longer need to go to the ombudsman and they will look to "support".

So maybe this thread has been noticed in certain circles...

Edited by kmpowell on Friday 31st October 12:30

[kmpowell]

alscar said:

In which case perhaps PFS would like to assist you on the new GT3 in some modest way especially if Mayfair won't also do a little something ?

Mayfair have already confirmed they will be doing some 'extra' contribution. PFS have also confirmed they will, but I'm still waiting to hear-back from them on exactly what they are going to give me after all the shenanigans.

alscar said:

More interesting though - would you repeat the GT4 speccing experience by going for something akin ie the PTS route ?

Even though the normal colour palette is a bit crap, £10k for PTS isn't worth it, IMO, so it'll be a normal palette selection colour. Having done the green car, I'm going to go for something more traditional on the GT3. Also, apart from the buckets, I really don't see much else as being 'needed' (for me), so it'll be buckets and coloured window-dressing only. £9k for PCCB's feels a lot, but in my head I said that if I'd ever get a chance to spec my own GT3 it would immediately have buckets and PCCB's, so I'll maybe add those. There's a long long way to go on that though, so I'm not getting carried away yet.

[kmpowell]

Popolou said:

Speaking of turning it around, keep an eye on their forecourt

Indeed. Given the car is still registered in my name and the rejection process isn't finalised. I'd be very surprised if it appears, however not totally shocked if it suddenly did! The new engine was apparently ordered from Germany on Friday, so I suspect it'll get completed in the coming weeks ready for them to retail ASAP once the rejection (and my acceptance of terms) has been confirmed.

bennno said:

The new vanadium grey colour is nice in the flesh

Indeed. I hadn't really considered it, but we popped into my next closest OPC (not mentioned in this thread!) yesterday to have a look at colours, and they had a Vanadium GTS on silver wheels. It looked really nice, but back home and on the configurator I'm not sure it sporty/special enough when I overlay my other spec choices. This is an occasional car, so it has to stimulate me aesthetically as well and when driven.

996Type said:

Sorry to hear of your woes, while the outcome has been long coming, it is a good one and I think you are 100% correct to move on from that car.

In your shoes, the redress advice is worth following above simply to get you closure and also maybe to prevent them passing future folks around in such a terrible way.

Thanks, I appreciate and totally share your sentiments. The more the time passes since I found I can reject, the more I think I'm correct to move on from the car. As the dust settles it's clear to me who the good guys are, and who has let me down. The original servicing dealer have been poor (and I question if they ever did do the oil change they said they did!), as have Porsche GB, but the main culprits to the pain have been Porsche FS.

Sure, Mayfair are a business, and it's in their interests to keep me happy, but, at the same time, they didn't legally have to do a lot of what the have continually done in the background along this frustrating journey. They really have been superb.

Getting closure on my terms is paramount, and it's what I am aiming for.

TDT said:

This is quite sensible - given the circumstances and amounts of money and risk involved.

I turned down a 4RS allocation a long time ago as I didn't think it was enough of a change for me. A SRS is an interesting one, as Mayfair looked at the numbers for me a few months back when all this was brewing (on new and used), but as the car lives outside the roof is questionable, as is it being enough of a change 'up' for me. It also probably won't be a surprise to know the Finacial 'risk' on a GT3 is much less than a SRS. Underwritten values over 2, 3 and 4 years, make a GT3 significantly better for depreciation, and overall cost/risk, but only if I keep options on a GT3 light(ish).

[kmpowell]

fridaypassion said:

Have they made a mileage deduction?

Yup, as mentioned on previous page, the money coming off the list-price refund are the OTR costs (c £2k), and £1 milage deduction for every mile on the clock (c£3k). So c£5k total to come off the full list price refund amount.

fridaypassion] said:

You're still quids in given how much the cars have tanked you must be secretly buzzing about all this!

It's weird TBH, I'm happy it's coming to a closure, but I'm certainly not 'buzzing'. I'll come out of this well financially, but you can't put a price on emotion. The GT4 was 'my' car. I hunted down an allocation, I specced it to how I wanted, and took the risk with Python. I had the highs & lows of waiting for it to arrive (c10mths due to the Ukraine war starting, delays, parts shortages etc), so it was special to me. I do minimal milage a year, I know, but I work hard and my downtime (especially with my son) is precious to me therefore every mile I do in it has to be a good one.

When it arrived, I was actually 'buzzing', on delivery day my other half did a video of my reaction as the covers came off for the first time. I think it says it all:

[kmpowell]

fridaypassion said:

You must be what 25k up though? Come on you must be stifling a bit of a giggle here

Once my initial deposit and any equity I had in the car is taken into consideration, it really isn't much. What money I do get will be going into another car of some flavour, so it's not 'real' money unless I decide not to buy another car.

[kmpowell]

bennno said:

To his point though, you are still circa £25k better off than if you'd sold or px'd the car.

I'm not though. I bought at 2021 list price (before all the multiple price rises at the end of 2021 and into 2022), and the current P/X prices for the GT4 have firmed and risen over the past 12 months, so it's not even close to £25k.

[kmpowell]

bennno said:

Whats it worth if you put it in to WBAC?

WBAC isn't really a benchmark, it's just the rock-bottom price one could get for the car. I'be been offered much more in P/X in recent weeks.

I'm not really wanting to get into specifics, please just trust me when I say that I do ok out of this, but it's nowhere near £25k.

[kmpowell]

interstellar said:

I think it would put me off and even if the gt3 is a good offer maybe get it in writing that you might want it in a couple of years and go the Ferrari route this time. Dealing with a different product and different people might give you that buzz again. The gt3 offer is good but it would pain me a little bit due to the situation to go straight to another car from the same brand.

I'm pretty much swayed by the 'new GT3' idea, because as I found out a couple of weeks ago, Ferrari aren't much better in the honesty stakes.

In short, a 488 being advertised by an official Ferrari dealership, with FFSH, but actually has a missing service, a missing MOT, and a bit of a blank/dodgy history gap...

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[kmpowell]

Nuttcase said:

So I respectfully suggest you get on the configurator, post up your GT3 build code and we'll rip it apart!

Haha, if I do that then I'll get slated for not speccing logo on the arm-rest, or race-tex visors, or illuminated door sills, or carbon ashtray surrounds, light design package, painted key, or many of the other things I don't want or need, but seem to be "essential" in internet world... :biggrin:

Nuttcase said:

Seriously though, reference your earlier post, you are right, you can build a very nice GT3 for ~£170k with steels and ~£180k with ceramics, both plus OTR charges.

I've decided not to go Ceramics. The steels on my GT4 were great, so the steels on the 3 will be more than fine for the milage and the type of driving I do.

Nuttcase said:

It should also benefit from being the second model year which also has the updated PCM, Bose sound system (option), 10 year Connect subscription etc.

Can you enlighten me on what differences there are in the PCM?

Nuttcase said:

Have your partner ready with the camera when you pull the cover off the oak green neo GT3 in April.

It certainly won't be Oak Green. I want to be different from the other 99% of .2 GT3's being specced/appearing which seem to be Oak Green...

The lure of a new GT3 ordered to my own spec was in the end too much for me to turn down. My other half said if you turn it down you probably won't get a chance to spec another GT3 from new, but you will always be able to get another used Ferarri.

Mayfair asked me this morning to send over my provisional spec so they could put it into the system today. Therefore, subject to being paid from Porsche for my car etc, the wait starts, roll on the Spring(!)...

[kmpowell]

Popolou said:

PCM is here.

Thanks, that's handy to know! I'm hoping they change the PCM so it uses high-res and displays more than two lines of app icons for CarPlay. The loan Cayenne I had recently was terrible with two lines. Even my 4 year old Discovery has 4 lines!

Nuttcase said:

Looks good. Any reason not to select the shark blue stitch option?

IMO Shark is light and clashes with the Lugano. Lugano doesn't represent well on the configurator, in real life it's darker and much deeper/richer.

[kmpowell]

Nuttcase said:

Indeed Shark and Lugano are quite different paint colours but I wouldn't write off the shark stitching unless you have already seen them together at the dealer config room or on a car.

Yup, I went to my next-nearest OPC last weekend and had a look at it all in their config room. I personally don't think they go together. The silver/grey stitch is a nicer contrast IMO.

nickfrog said:

Aren't those card supposed to be tracked mercilessly rather than remain practically unused? I am not convinced 1,000 miles a year is very good for them, I don't know.

As confirmed by Reading, it was an engine manufacturing issue, so the fault was there from day one. It just didn't materialise until later in life due to the low milage I do. If I'd have done 3k miles in the first year, it would have happened then instead. The problem has nothing to do with the low usage.

Edited by kmpowell on Friday 7th November 09:30

[kmpowell]

Popolou said:

Speaking of turning it around, keep an eye on their forecourt

'listed last night:

https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/details/08P07L

[kmpowell]

Jones the cat said:

What a beauty!

If there's one thing JZM are good at, it's how to photograph cars and process the photos. It certainly won't look that good outside and/or in real life.

Edited by kmpowell on Wednesday 3rd December 08:27