What makes a Supersportscar, and is this one too extreme?
Discussion
Lets use the term Supersportscar ( as now routinely used by Lamborghini and KTM etc ) instead of Supercar or Hypercar as these are loaded terms that can sidetrack a discussion .
If I was considering a supersportscar these are the features that I would be looking for ( and please tell me which ones I have missed out ) :
- affordable capital costs ( for arguments sake lets say a max of £200k for a new or 2nd hand car ) - the lower the better .
- affordable maintainance costs
- affordable warranty costs - preferably a car that doesnt need a warranty
( Money , gauche as it may be to some , is central to a realistic discussion )
- good outwards visibility
- narrow
- lightweight
- excellent brakes
- superb handling in the dry and also in the wet
- excellent torque-to-weight ratio
- sensible grip-to-torque ratio
- manual transmission for involvement , simplicity , and reliability
- mid-engined ( which can be front or rear mid-engined ) simply because i am bigotted .
- sub 3 seconds to 60 mph , and sub 7 seconds to 100 mph
- top speed totally irrelevant
- great drivetrain noises
MUST BE AS MUCH FUN TO DRIVE AT 30 MPH AS IT IS TO DRIVE AT HIGH SPEEDS .
- excellent reliability
- simplicity of design as this contributes to reliability
- outrageous looks because looks maketh the supersportscar .
What would be your criteria for a great supersportscar , and which actual car would you pick ?
Let's assume that this supersportscar would be a 2nd (or 9th ) car , so would not have to be a daily driver or even remotely practical .
I have in mind one car which meets these criteria , but it is much under-discussed to the point of being ignored .
I would love to hear from you before telling you which car I am thinking of
If I was considering a supersportscar these are the features that I would be looking for ( and please tell me which ones I have missed out ) :
- affordable capital costs ( for arguments sake lets say a max of £200k for a new or 2nd hand car ) - the lower the better .
- affordable maintainance costs
- affordable warranty costs - preferably a car that doesnt need a warranty
( Money , gauche as it may be to some , is central to a realistic discussion )
- good outwards visibility
- narrow
- lightweight
- excellent brakes
- superb handling in the dry and also in the wet
- excellent torque-to-weight ratio
- sensible grip-to-torque ratio
- manual transmission for involvement , simplicity , and reliability
- mid-engined ( which can be front or rear mid-engined ) simply because i am bigotted .
- sub 3 seconds to 60 mph , and sub 7 seconds to 100 mph
- top speed totally irrelevant
- great drivetrain noises
MUST BE AS MUCH FUN TO DRIVE AT 30 MPH AS IT IS TO DRIVE AT HIGH SPEEDS .
- excellent reliability
- simplicity of design as this contributes to reliability
- outrageous looks because looks maketh the supersportscar .
What would be your criteria for a great supersportscar , and which actual car would you pick ?
Let's assume that this supersportscar would be a 2nd (or 9th ) car , so would not have to be a daily driver or even remotely practical .
I have in mind one car which meets these criteria , but it is much under-discussed to the point of being ignored .
I would love to hear from you before telling you which car I am thinking of
Hi Super Sonic - You're clearly a Honda fan - the best engine makers ever ?
The late , great L.J.K . Setright thought so .
Hi Andrew - thanks for that list of omissions , the gravest of which was missing out ''steering feel '' - you are absolutely correct there .
So what's you're guess as to the supersportscar ?
The late , great L.J.K . Setright thought so .
Hi Andrew - thanks for that list of omissions , the gravest of which was missing out ''steering feel '' - you are absolutely correct there .
So what's you're guess as to the supersportscar ?
Hi everyone - I would make a terrible quizmaster or more precisely a terrible setter of pub quiz questions because Super Sonic got the right answer within minutes of me starting this thread .
My apologies Super Sonic for deflecting , but I was keen to hear what other people might be able to think of as alternative cars that might fit this bill .
Bispal I don’t have an Ariel Atom in the garage ! , but find it very attractive for the reasons below .
MingtheMerciless I hear what you say and of course you have direct experience of an Atom 4 which I don’t have .
I think that what follows below is really only applicable to the Atom 4 , the earlier variants being less forgiving and less refined for road use , although just as fast in terms of acceleration and top speed .
So in addition to the criteria that I suggested in my original post I find the following attractive about the Atom 4 and find it difficult to discount the Atom 4 as one of the most affordable super sports cars available ( or indeed supercars available ) :
1) Autocar , the oldest automobile magazine in the world (1895 ) , and long regarded as the standard setter for meticulous road tests , gave the Atom 4 5 stars and specifically commented that this was very unusual especially for a car of this nature
2) The Atom 4 won Autocar,s Best Drivers Car Competition in 2019 against some pretty impressive rivals including some notable supercars
3) And then repeated this feat in 2020 - an apparently unique , or almost unique , accolade
4) And then came Runner-up in 2021 .
5) Similar compliments for the Atom 4 from Evo , Catchpole , and other dependable reviewers …. All of whom said that the Atom 4 was FUN , FUN , FUN.
And this is surely all that matters in a Toy Car .
I must admit that the Atom hadn’t really crossed my radar as a serious consideration until I read all these reviews and noted that the 2019 Autocar test was carried out in the dry , while the 2020 test was carried out in atrociously wet conditions ( I might have got this the wrong way round )
Anyhow , it made me think that if a car could shine so brightly in such different conditions it warranted some consideration.
( I test drove an Atom 2 in 2002 and an Atom 3 in 2008 - in February , in about 4 degrees Centigrade , and really couldn’t control either car at all . I drove an Atom 4 in July for all of about 3 minutes on a deserted country road and was totally , totally smitten )
6) The power to weight ratios and torque to weight ratios are simply mind-blowing if that sort of thing rocks your boat , and shallow as it is , it does rock mine .Hypercar stats for the price of a new Civic Type R ( I walked into a Honda dealership and yes it’s about £50k for a Type R on the road )
7) Which brings us to the Honda drivetrain - that engine and gearbox should be dependable
8) Which brings us to service , maintenance , and warranty costs . I genuinely fear the bills that can accompany supercar ownership . Some might say that you shouldn’t be playing in this playpen if you can’t afford exorbitant bills , but what if you could get all the pros for a much more affordable cost ( and take on the chin a few obvious cons enroute - more of which later )
Dealing with a pretty much bog standard a Honda drivetrain should be less worrying on the wallet and self warranting should be an acceptable risk .
Insurance costs will be much more manageable too
9) No weather protection , having to use a helmet ( eye injuries can be difficult to manage - don’t ask me how I know ) , and getting cold and wet , as MingtheMerciless has already stated , are definitive cons . And that windscreen is so ugly .
10) But sans windscreen and additional rollcage the Atom 4 looks every bit the unusual supercar - at least to my eyes .
Other supercar features:
.. Rarity .Ariel only make about a 100 Atoms a year ,many of which are exported.
.. Long waiting list . About 2 or 3 years
.. Gets your heart racing - at standstill and on the move
.. The established supercar manufacturers are making highly limited edition cars without doors , roofs or windscreens . Join this club on a budget with an Atom 4
I absolutely agree that we would all want to tick the Lambo or Ferrari or McLaren box first - simply because that is what we have all dreamt about forever . But these lightweight , narrow , open , cars - like the Brooke , BAC Mono , KTM X BOW , Vuhl ,and Dallara Stradale also have the potential to thrill like the well established supercars , and then have the added potential to thrill like nothing else on the road - through their agility and their exposure to the elements .
Most of all now , I want a car that can thrill at 30 mph .
So many cars now don’t wake up until you have well breached license-losing speeds , and that makes them pretty dull and useless .
The Atom 4,s hisses , whoops , and whizzes at 20 mph ( check out the videos on YouTube ) , and its demands of you the driver , will immediately wake you up I think .
And surely you want a supercar to wake you up , to breathe life into you - otherwise a Mercedes C class or a Ford Fiesta will surely satisfy all your needs for an honest transportation device at a fraction of the financial , time-consuming , and headache-inducing cost .
So ,now that I have belatedly shown my hand ( and my apologies again to Super Sonic for not immediately acknowledging that he got it right in one ) , what do you think precludes the Atom 4 from being considered a genuine supercar , and do you think that these considerations have any real merit , or are simply based on bias and snobbery -especially if you have already enjoyed a F, L, or Mc car in the past .
My apologies Super Sonic for deflecting , but I was keen to hear what other people might be able to think of as alternative cars that might fit this bill .
Bispal I don’t have an Ariel Atom in the garage ! , but find it very attractive for the reasons below .
MingtheMerciless I hear what you say and of course you have direct experience of an Atom 4 which I don’t have .
I think that what follows below is really only applicable to the Atom 4 , the earlier variants being less forgiving and less refined for road use , although just as fast in terms of acceleration and top speed .
So in addition to the criteria that I suggested in my original post I find the following attractive about the Atom 4 and find it difficult to discount the Atom 4 as one of the most affordable super sports cars available ( or indeed supercars available ) :
1) Autocar , the oldest automobile magazine in the world (1895 ) , and long regarded as the standard setter for meticulous road tests , gave the Atom 4 5 stars and specifically commented that this was very unusual especially for a car of this nature
2) The Atom 4 won Autocar,s Best Drivers Car Competition in 2019 against some pretty impressive rivals including some notable supercars
3) And then repeated this feat in 2020 - an apparently unique , or almost unique , accolade
4) And then came Runner-up in 2021 .
5) Similar compliments for the Atom 4 from Evo , Catchpole , and other dependable reviewers …. All of whom said that the Atom 4 was FUN , FUN , FUN.
And this is surely all that matters in a Toy Car .
I must admit that the Atom hadn’t really crossed my radar as a serious consideration until I read all these reviews and noted that the 2019 Autocar test was carried out in the dry , while the 2020 test was carried out in atrociously wet conditions ( I might have got this the wrong way round )
Anyhow , it made me think that if a car could shine so brightly in such different conditions it warranted some consideration.
( I test drove an Atom 2 in 2002 and an Atom 3 in 2008 - in February , in about 4 degrees Centigrade , and really couldn’t control either car at all . I drove an Atom 4 in July for all of about 3 minutes on a deserted country road and was totally , totally smitten )
6) The power to weight ratios and torque to weight ratios are simply mind-blowing if that sort of thing rocks your boat , and shallow as it is , it does rock mine .Hypercar stats for the price of a new Civic Type R ( I walked into a Honda dealership and yes it’s about £50k for a Type R on the road )
7) Which brings us to the Honda drivetrain - that engine and gearbox should be dependable
8) Which brings us to service , maintenance , and warranty costs . I genuinely fear the bills that can accompany supercar ownership . Some might say that you shouldn’t be playing in this playpen if you can’t afford exorbitant bills , but what if you could get all the pros for a much more affordable cost ( and take on the chin a few obvious cons enroute - more of which later )
Dealing with a pretty much bog standard a Honda drivetrain should be less worrying on the wallet and self warranting should be an acceptable risk .
Insurance costs will be much more manageable too
9) No weather protection , having to use a helmet ( eye injuries can be difficult to manage - don’t ask me how I know ) , and getting cold and wet , as MingtheMerciless has already stated , are definitive cons . And that windscreen is so ugly .
10) But sans windscreen and additional rollcage the Atom 4 looks every bit the unusual supercar - at least to my eyes .
Other supercar features:
.. Rarity .Ariel only make about a 100 Atoms a year ,many of which are exported.
.. Long waiting list . About 2 or 3 years
.. Gets your heart racing - at standstill and on the move
.. The established supercar manufacturers are making highly limited edition cars without doors , roofs or windscreens . Join this club on a budget with an Atom 4
I absolutely agree that we would all want to tick the Lambo or Ferrari or McLaren box first - simply because that is what we have all dreamt about forever . But these lightweight , narrow , open , cars - like the Brooke , BAC Mono , KTM X BOW , Vuhl ,and Dallara Stradale also have the potential to thrill like the well established supercars , and then have the added potential to thrill like nothing else on the road - through their agility and their exposure to the elements .
Most of all now , I want a car that can thrill at 30 mph .
So many cars now don’t wake up until you have well breached license-losing speeds , and that makes them pretty dull and useless .
The Atom 4,s hisses , whoops , and whizzes at 20 mph ( check out the videos on YouTube ) , and its demands of you the driver , will immediately wake you up I think .
And surely you want a supercar to wake you up , to breathe life into you - otherwise a Mercedes C class or a Ford Fiesta will surely satisfy all your needs for an honest transportation device at a fraction of the financial , time-consuming , and headache-inducing cost .
So ,now that I have belatedly shown my hand ( and my apologies again to Super Sonic for not immediately acknowledging that he got it right in one ) , what do you think precludes the Atom 4 from being considered a genuine supercar , and do you think that these considerations have any real merit , or are simply based on bias and snobbery -especially if you have already enjoyed a F, L, or Mc car in the past .
Edited by carspath on Friday 4th October 18:16
DeejRC - but why should a supercar necessarily have a windscreen or a roof or conventional bodywork ?
Are the multimillion dollar cars which fit this description that Ferrari , and McLaren will only sell to their preferred customers not supercars ?
Just asking .
To try and breakthrough the stereotype that afflicts us all .
I too wanted a L or F car first , and would never have considered an Atom , but that was because I was not being rational or clinical about what I wanted - which is entirely fine on a discretionary purchase toy car .
Jamie , my drive in an Exige 410 was brilliant - it’s an exceptional car and I don’t think that you are being shortchanged at all . Enjoy !
And it goes to show just how loose and corrosive this term ‘supercar’ can be .
Are the multimillion dollar cars which fit this description that Ferrari , and McLaren will only sell to their preferred customers not supercars ?
Just asking .
To try and breakthrough the stereotype that afflicts us all .
I too wanted a L or F car first , and would never have considered an Atom , but that was because I was not being rational or clinical about what I wanted - which is entirely fine on a discretionary purchase toy car .
Jamie , my drive in an Exige 410 was brilliant - it’s an exceptional car and I don’t think that you are being shortchanged at all . Enjoy !
And it goes to show just how loose and corrosive this term ‘supercar’ can be .
Gassing Station | Supercar General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff