VAG TDI 1.9 PD engine failures
Discussion
Sorry to dig up an older thread! In essence my 09/63K 1.9TDI octavia suffered catastrophic engine failure without warning 2.5k after a service at an independent (for more details see:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
but I've just been told by the (independent) garage there have been a load of failures in certain VAG group 1.9 TDI engines of certain engine codes.. and guess what, mine had the relevant engine code. Can't find much about it on line but what happened to mine basically happened to this guy.
http://www.octane.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=58538
New engine in mine (remanufactered, installed by an independent) is massively more refined than the old one was oddly enough!
Comment from my Dad (retired diesel engineer) on seeing the photos:
In my professional opinion, looking closely at your photos, it definitely looks as if the piston picked up on the bore and seized first. This could have been caused by the injector nozzle hosing fuel (if the needle was stuck open), causing the oil from the sides of the bore to be flused away and causing the piston to seize in the bore. Or it could have been due to some foreign matter getting into the bore - the only way to tell would be by looking inside the engine.
Once the piston had seized, the crankshaft turning motion would push the conn rod out through the block, snapping off the end of the conn rod - with the bits of conn rod/bearing/bearing cap either in the sump or cold-welded to other parts of the crankshaft!
All in all, the block is obviously completely written off and, if the crankshaft was affected by the bits of conn rod such as to cause the timing belt to break (quite likely), the valves would hit the pistons and the head would be a write off as well.
I'm glad the new engine seems to be working well. Don't let anyone put anything in the fuel system to "clean it up!" The clearances on the PD (unit injectors) are extremely small and sensitive to debris/wear and fuel additives can cause massive damage! VW in Peterborough told me that one of their customers had to have a complete new set of PDs at £3,000 when they used a fuel additive
Anybody else here had similar failures? VAG basically just don't want to know at the moment!
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
but I've just been told by the (independent) garage there have been a load of failures in certain VAG group 1.9 TDI engines of certain engine codes.. and guess what, mine had the relevant engine code. Can't find much about it on line but what happened to mine basically happened to this guy.
http://www.octane.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=58538
New engine in mine (remanufactered, installed by an independent) is massively more refined than the old one was oddly enough!
Comment from my Dad (retired diesel engineer) on seeing the photos:
In my professional opinion, looking closely at your photos, it definitely looks as if the piston picked up on the bore and seized first. This could have been caused by the injector nozzle hosing fuel (if the needle was stuck open), causing the oil from the sides of the bore to be flused away and causing the piston to seize in the bore. Or it could have been due to some foreign matter getting into the bore - the only way to tell would be by looking inside the engine.
Once the piston had seized, the crankshaft turning motion would push the conn rod out through the block, snapping off the end of the conn rod - with the bits of conn rod/bearing/bearing cap either in the sump or cold-welded to other parts of the crankshaft!
All in all, the block is obviously completely written off and, if the crankshaft was affected by the bits of conn rod such as to cause the timing belt to break (quite likely), the valves would hit the pistons and the head would be a write off as well.
I'm glad the new engine seems to be working well. Don't let anyone put anything in the fuel system to "clean it up!" The clearances on the PD (unit injectors) are extremely small and sensitive to debris/wear and fuel additives can cause massive damage! VW in Peterborough told me that one of their customers had to have a complete new set of PDs at £3,000 when they used a fuel additive
Anybody else here had similar failures? VAG basically just don't want to know at the moment!
Seems the engine failure is just with certain engine codes- BXE (like mine) being one of them. Examples being:
(from http://www.roadtestreports.co.uk/road-test-reports... to read so pasted here)
Sara, Lancashire
Volkswagen Touran 1.9 TDI S 105PS 2007
My family loves the car. It’s comfortable to drive and a big mummy taxi. It’s got ample space, for 2 kids, plus 2 prams and loads of shopping. My husband enjoys trying to get the best mpg out of the car. He drives like an old granny sometimes to get 53 and better. The only problem I’ve got, is that it’s going for its second engine. The car’s covered 98,000 miles since getting it from new in 2007. At 60,000 miles the engine gave out which VW replaced after a lot of hassle, but we paid labour. Now again, the engine given out with exactly the same problem... a hole in the engine block, which something inside it has caused.
Submitted: 13/02/2012 11:52:10
Respond to this review | Write a report on this vehicle
Bobby, Lancashire
Volkswagen Touran TDI S 105ps 2007
I’ve owned VW’s all my life and when it came to buying a family car, I only considered a VW. We bought a VW Touran TDI S 105PS on a 57 plate with 76000 miles on the clock and full VW service history. After owning the car for 36 days, the car broke down. The mechanic investigated and showed me what had happened - conrod smashed a hole into the engine block. I then investigated further and found that I wasn’t the only one to experience this; a common occurance on the BXE engine number, which mine was! I contacted VW, hoping for a small good faith gesture as the car was ALWAYS serviced by a VW dealer, but was told politely, "Not our problem". After approx 2 weeks, the car is being fitted with a used engine, thus devaluing the car even more. Not to mention I have no idea about the state of the turbo as it shares its oil with the engine, or any other mechanical items after the engine blew up! Overall, the seats were comfortable, the car drove good with ample feedback to the driver on road conditions and what the car was doing and space was fantastic. As for reliability and mechanics, I give the car a 0 rating as it has barely lasted half as long as the VW website boasts. VW, I’m sorry to tell you this, but I will NO LONGER be servicing any of my cars with your dealers as a full VW service history means NOTHING!
Responses to this review
I have a 2007 VW Golf V 1.9 TDI 105, with a BXE engine. One week ago, I had the same problem: engine block with a hole, due to a broken rod. The car is 113.000 km - Fernando Marques from Portugal
(From http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/new-a3-s3-sportback-8...
Very similar story!
So would strongly suggest anybody buying a VAG 1.9 PD car to check the engine code and walk away if it's a BXE or BLS! I also cannot believe there is not some sort of recall, but if it's a minority problem VAG just hope they go bang out of warranty and then tell the owners to s*d off!
(from http://www.roadtestreports.co.uk/road-test-reports... to read so pasted here)
Sara, Lancashire
Volkswagen Touran 1.9 TDI S 105PS 2007
My family loves the car. It’s comfortable to drive and a big mummy taxi. It’s got ample space, for 2 kids, plus 2 prams and loads of shopping. My husband enjoys trying to get the best mpg out of the car. He drives like an old granny sometimes to get 53 and better. The only problem I’ve got, is that it’s going for its second engine. The car’s covered 98,000 miles since getting it from new in 2007. At 60,000 miles the engine gave out which VW replaced after a lot of hassle, but we paid labour. Now again, the engine given out with exactly the same problem... a hole in the engine block, which something inside it has caused.
Submitted: 13/02/2012 11:52:10
Respond to this review | Write a report on this vehicle
Bobby, Lancashire
Volkswagen Touran TDI S 105ps 2007
I’ve owned VW’s all my life and when it came to buying a family car, I only considered a VW. We bought a VW Touran TDI S 105PS on a 57 plate with 76000 miles on the clock and full VW service history. After owning the car for 36 days, the car broke down. The mechanic investigated and showed me what had happened - conrod smashed a hole into the engine block. I then investigated further and found that I wasn’t the only one to experience this; a common occurance on the BXE engine number, which mine was! I contacted VW, hoping for a small good faith gesture as the car was ALWAYS serviced by a VW dealer, but was told politely, "Not our problem". After approx 2 weeks, the car is being fitted with a used engine, thus devaluing the car even more. Not to mention I have no idea about the state of the turbo as it shares its oil with the engine, or any other mechanical items after the engine blew up! Overall, the seats were comfortable, the car drove good with ample feedback to the driver on road conditions and what the car was doing and space was fantastic. As for reliability and mechanics, I give the car a 0 rating as it has barely lasted half as long as the VW website boasts. VW, I’m sorry to tell you this, but I will NO LONGER be servicing any of my cars with your dealers as a full VW service history means NOTHING!
Responses to this review
I have a 2007 VW Golf V 1.9 TDI 105, with a BXE engine. One week ago, I had the same problem: engine block with a hole, due to a broken rod. The car is 113.000 km - Fernando Marques from Portugal
(From http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/new-a3-s3-sportback-8...
Very similar story!
So would strongly suggest anybody buying a VAG 1.9 PD car to check the engine code and walk away if it's a BXE or BLS! I also cannot believe there is not some sort of recall, but if it's a minority problem VAG just hope they go bang out of warranty and then tell the owners to s*d off!
63k, 2.5 years old so hardly out of warranty. Absolutely nothing from vw so im afraid your unlikely to get anywhere. mine is an 09 so not just until 08, hoping the 2012 new engine is unaffected. Remanufactured engines are about 2-3k but they must have the same engine code unless you swap the ecu too.Google this forum, there's another thread with more info and if you Google bxs/bxe there is some more including one person who had 2 go in under 100k....
At 105k miles now and remanufactured engine seems fine(touching wood) but dual mass flywheel and gearbox have just failed- £3008 bill. I wonder if engine failing could have caused the problem but that was 40k ago so doubt it. Would advise everyone to think carefully before buying a VAG product as I can only believe their quality control is extremely poor as is their attitude. Not a mistake I will be making again!!
Tallbutbuxomly said:
Huh odd. Dual mass flywheel failing could damage gearbox I suppose.
Not according to all the googling I did but who knows. Was a weak link in older Octavia s apparently. Not good enough without a reason to fail- dual mass flywheel just a bit noisy rather than fragmented so really doubt that linkwillmagrath said:
i've heard injectors can go on them (very pricey) so i tend to use v power diesel in my fabia vrs along with the odd use of redex to keep them up to scratch, mines on 112k and still pretty refined
Redex and equivalents are strongly not advised by VAG- so much so that if you use them you're out of warranty whatever the mileage or age! It was use of these by the garage my old practice used that vag used as a reason not to make any contribution to an engine going pop at 62.5k miles/2.5 years! V power is completely different and recommended however. rmccstealth said:
So my wifes '58 plate BXE 1.9TDI Golf let go this week with 75k on the clock. Its got the classic BXE con-rod failure so it now laid-up whilst we work out what to do. Is it worth repairing? What would it be worth as a non-runner? Whilst its unlikely that lightning can strike twice I'm cautious that we could spend a lot of money fixing it and risk it going again or it'll end up running forever (like it should). Any advice?
Ivor searl remanufactured vag engines were recommended to me and I think were about 3k or so but don't have personal experience of them. Old job got one from vag that I think was nearly 6k fitted. However the gearbox went on mine 45k later, an almost unheard of fault that we can only link to damage caused by the engine detonating. Gearbox + clutch + flywheel was another £3008! With hindsight I probably wouldn't repair a bxe or get a recon engine and sell it on. Interesting about someone actually squeezing some money out of VAG for this design fault of there s, will have to go and look it up!rmccstealth said:
So my wifes '58 plate BXE 1.9TDI Golf let go this week with 75k on the clock. Its got the classic BXE con-rod failure so it now laid-up whilst we work out what to do. Is it worth repairing? What would it be worth as a non-runner? Whilst its unlikely that lightning can strike twice I'm cautious that we could spend a lot of money fixing it and risk it going again or it'll end up running forever (like it should). Any advice?
Ivor searl remanufactured vag engines were recommended to me and I think were about 3k or so but don't have personal experience of them. Old job got one from vag that I think was nearly 6k fitted. However the gearbox went on mine 45k later, an almost unheard of fault that we can only link to damage caused by the engine detonating. Gearbox + clutch + flywheel was another £3008! With hindsight I probably wouldn't repair a bxe or get a recon engine and sell it on. Interesting about someone actually squeezing some money out of VAG for this design fault of there s, will have to go and look it up!dbfan said:
One thing is for sure, after 24 years of VW ownership, this one will be the last for a long time.
Quite agree- as VAG have disowned a known manufacturing fault that causes such severe problems all we can do is generate as much publicity- and possibly cost them some sales- as we can!dbfan said:
One thing is for sure, after 24 years of VW ownership, this one will be the last for a long time.
Quite agree- as VAG have disowned a known manufacturing fault that causes such severe problems all we can do is generate as much publicity- and possibly cost them some sales- as we can!Jim Campbell said:
BKC is the engine code if i'm reading the manual correctly. Am i doomed then?
No you're fortunate. Not that every bxe will go. Hoping that the remanufactured one in my car won't (currently on 90k) rather fervently. Rest of the car seems to be falling apart though & when the garage replaces the gearbox apparently they almost always b*gger the slave cylinder. Never been 100% electrically since the new engine tbh!In the last 4 weeks new rear wiper motor, new brake slave cylinder. To the former and new garage's shame that required 6 examinations by a mechanic, one of them by the RAC (that's letting it off the rac visit to the battery flattened by the fridge) & over £1500 (incl a service)!
Sensibleboy said:
It does sound like the problem is limited to 2007 and 2008 Cars So there will be thousands of earlier engines that are fine.
Octavia was an 09. Not heard of one out of 07-09, for every bxe and bls that detonates there be lots that don't. My point is that if a manufacturing defect makes even a small proportion of your engines fail in a dramatic and potentially dangerous way I don't think sticking your head in the ground and hoping that the problem goes away is a responsible attitude to take, particularly if you want to try and maintain a reputation for reliability! dbfan said:
VW are still trading on a reputation they earned with the Beetle.
This! VAG technician at my local indie said this. Just for info mine was on fleet servicing schedule, also noted how much smoother the new engine was especially after 1k oil change. Notchy gearbox much better in replacement for about 10k miles only!Mr2Mike said:
ChasW said:
My old 2003 A4 Tdi 130 is still around with 200k+ on it now. Had a new turbo at 55k other than that just timing belts and still on its original clutch.
And did it have a BXE engine? I didn't think this version was ever fitted to Audis.Problem is BXE and possibly some other engine codes fitted to 07-09 cars.
Turbo failing at 55k sounds like driven by someone who didn't know about cooling them down after use
maddypoppins said:
If it had been on a motorway or pulling off a roundabout it could have been serious.
From experience if at speed bang it into neutral to prevent you coming to an immediate stop possibly with the front wheels locked!When mine went I'd just joined a dual carriage way (no hard shoulder) and pulled out to overtake an artic just coming past it. He nearly flattened me once I had coasted past and then friction began slowing me down and he came past. Fortunately the next slip road was only a few 100 yards away...
It was never claimed to be all vag bxe engines, just a particular batch. Said batch put piston through block. I'd guess that hopefully all the ones that were going to go have by now.
The one that replaced the one that went bang (has to be same engine code apparently) was still going very strong at 145k (chassis on 206k) and felt like it would easily double that mileage. Same can't be said for the rest of the car as the electrical gremlins were multiplying...
The one that replaced the one that went bang (has to be same engine code apparently) was still going very strong at 145k (chassis on 206k) and felt like it would easily double that mileage. Same can't be said for the rest of the car as the electrical gremlins were multiplying...
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