Monday 24th October 2011

We Want To Build A Car Says BMW M Boss

'We have the technology, but not the business case'

---

M1 Hommage - a nice idea, anyhow...

The head of product development at BMW M division has told Inside Line that he wants to develop a bespoke car ‘in-house’ as AMG has done with the SLS.

“From an engineering perspective we have the skills and we'd love to do it," said Albert Biermann. "We've discussed it several times but we've never been able to make the business case.

However the boss’s comments suggest the more likely direction for the M division is working with the types of powertrain we’re soon going to have to stop calling ‘alternative’.

"Our job is to sell emotion and fun, using the technology that's socially acceptable at the time. Whether that's a combustion engine or an electric motor, we don't care."

Biermann also commented on the M5 swapping its V10 for a twin-turbo V8: "It's about employing the right technology at the right time and we're on a steep learning curve with turbos. We're getting damn close to matching the response of a naturally aspirated engine but with much lower fuel consumption. We cannot just keep adding power. M is not selling horsepower; that's not what we're about."

Sigh… anyone else remember ‘the good old days’?

[dwilkie]

I do kind of agree actually, for me an M-Car has always been about the complete package, not just brute power. The Power option was always Merc, or maybe Audi!

[RobCrezz]

A new mid engined "M1" would be great, turbo 6 pot with electric motor...

[TheRoadWarrior]

The good old days?

Sounds like the man speaks a lot of sense to me.

[TheForceV4]

"We cannot just keep adding power. M is not selling horsepower; that's not what we're about."

I dont see why not. Sad times if this is how it pans out.

[PhilJames]

"We cannot just keep adding power. M is not selling horsepower; that's not what we're about."

M has always been about selling horsepower (or miss selling torque) that's all it's been about.
(apart from selling a status badge to some of course)

[TheForceV4]

dwilkie said:

I do kind of agree actually, for me an M-Car has always been about the complete package, not just brute power. The Power option was always Merc, or maybe Audi!

I see exactly what you mean, though they seem to have managed to do both, the M3, RS5, C63 the power figures arent that massively dissimilar.

[Mermaid]

RobCrezz said:

A new mid engined "M1" would be great, turbo 6 pot with electric motor...

and no more than 1300 kgs

[kambites]

I assume that quote about power is a direct response to all the complaints that that's exactly what the M-division are becoming - they seem to be morphing into AMG whilst AMG are heading in the opposite direction. How far are they from meeting in the middle?

Autocar's test actually rated but current E63 above the new M5 as a drivers' car (but the M5 as a better cruiser). I haven't seen any other twin-tests, but it can't help but feel that it'll hurt the M-divisions credibility if they all come out that way.

Edited by kambites on Monday 24th October 10:54

[Ramses]

PhilJames said:

"We cannot just keep adding power. M is not selling horsepower; that's not what we're about."

M has always been about selling horsepower (or miss selling torque) that's all it's been about.
(apart from selling a status badge to some of course)

M has been about the package. Merc/AMG have often out-horsepowered the M, but the M has typically been the better car.

[marcosgt]

TheForceV4 said:

dwilkie said:

I do kind of agree actually, for me an M-Car has always been about the complete package, not just brute power. The Power option was always Merc, or maybe Audi!

I see exactly what you mean, though they seem to have managed to do both, the M3, RS5, C63 the power figures arent that massively dissimilar.

But isn't he saying that's a ratrace they want to get out of and go back to the 'purity' of the E30 M3 or the original M1?

That's how I interpret it anyway.

M.

[TonyHetherington]

I agree - I don't think M sell horespower. They sell a package that happens to have high, but not silly, horsepower. Look at Audi RS6, for example. That's selling horsepower

[TheForceV4]

marcosgt said:

But isn't he saying that's a ratrace they want to get out of and go back to the 'purity' of the E30 M3 or the original M1?

That's how I interpret it anyway.

M.

Regarding your point on the E30 M3, couldnt you say that is was only regarded as 'pure' as there was nothing on the market at the time to challenge it?

[TinyCappo]

[Chris-R]

TinyCappo said:

We're not wattled by a wabble of wowdy webels!

[RodMod]

I think that they should do a M car for the purist, trouble now is anyone (funds providing) can go and buy a 3 series M car with 4 doors and its just not what M is about imho.

Rod.

[anonymous-user]

don't call it a bmw m1, just M1,

Set the price at 200k, get a race series going, and all the arabs, russians and celebrities will be biting you arm off, MR BWM.

[mat205125]

Lets pray they keep it all inhouse, rather than farm out some essential parts of the process to under equipped and under skilled Italians ... Not that VAG would allow that.

[marcosgt]

TheForceV4 said:

Regarding your point on the E30 M3, couldnt you say that is was only regarded as 'pure' as there was nothing on the market at the time to challenge it?

I couldn't, no

I thought there were quite a few Group A homologation specials? Most obvious two are the Ford Cosworth and the Mercedes 190, but there were others as well and others before that.

It was hardly original to have a focussed motorsports homologation special.

M

[TheForceV4]

marcosgt said:

I couldn't, no

I thought there were quite a few Group A homologation specials? Most obvious two are the Ford Cosworth and the Mercedes 190, but there were others as well and others before that.

It was hardly original to have a focussed motorsports homologation special.

M

I stand corrected.

[jontysafe]

There`s no business case for an SLS-alike, look how the prices on those have dropped like a stone. You can pick up a 2000mile well optioned SLS for 120k. However, if you knock £80k off the (new) price that`s roughly where the R8 V10 is and slightly more again that`s where the R8 V8 is. Both cars have sold well and residuals are amongst the best.

I think the new twin-turbo V8, with the wick turned up slightly, in a lightweight mid engine application based on a mixture of existing and new mechanicals would sell very well and again give BMW a halo model. I know I`d consider buying one. Anyone else?