RE: Infiniti sheds (some) light on new sports car
Thursday 12th January 2012
Engine bit to go 'here'...Infiniti's snappily titled 'Deputy Division General Manager of Product Planning and Strategy' (and breathe), Francois Bancon, has shed a touch more light on Infiniti's planned Geneva sports car concept.
Infiniti sheds (some) light on new sports car
Production boss explains more about Infiniti's first mid-engined offering, and gives us a new teaser pic
Engine bit to go 'here'...
The new car, which will be a range-extender hybrid, will consist of a 1.2-litre internal combustion engine that powers a battery pack and electric motor, rather than directly driving the wheels. "This is not the only solution, but this is a very promising one", says Bancon.
"The capability to combine the potency of an internal combustion engine on one side and the battery - EV - on the other...is appealing on many levels: to achieve an uncompromised level of performance for a sports car, but on top of this it's possible during an urban drive to be just zero emissions."
The Geneva concept will also be Infiniti's first-ever mid-engined model as it's "the most rational way to distribute the weight and to deliver a high level of handling and performance".
But why go for a range-extender rather than the less ambitious 'mild hybrid' sports car that other manufacturers seem to be toying with?
"When you have more and more cities, especially in Europe, who are kind of banning the internal combustion engine at whatever the level of emission," says Bancon, "with this car you're going to be able to run downtown to London, for example, with no guilt. You are not guilty - you are on zero emissions. At the same time you can have fun on the race track with the maximum performance the car can enjoy."
Sounds reasonable to us, Francois...
Discussion
So many problems here it's hard to decide where to begin.
An internal combustion engine is actually a very efficient way to convert fuel into motive power. Inserting a battery and electric motor into the process just adds inefficiency. Hardly an "uncompromised" solution.
"Guilt-free" zero-emmission town driving with "maximum" on-track performance. Both limited by the compromises of lugging around an un-used petrol engine when in zero mode, and half a tonne of batteries when on track.
An internal combustion engine is actually a very efficient way to convert fuel into motive power. Inserting a battery and electric motor into the process just adds inefficiency. Hardly an "uncompromised" solution.
"Guilt-free" zero-emmission town driving with "maximum" on-track performance. Both limited by the compromises of lugging around an un-used petrol engine when in zero mode, and half a tonne of batteries when on track.
EliseKSK said:
So many problems here it's hard to decide where to begin.
An internal combustion engine is actually a very efficient way to convert fuel into motive power. Inserting a battery and electric motor into the process just adds inefficiency. Hardly an "uncompromised" solution.
"Guilt-free" zero-emmission town driving with "maximum" on-track performance. Both limited by the compromises of lugging around an un-used petrol engine when in zero mode, and half a tonne of batteries when on track.
The whole point of EV in town is to improve air quality in cities. London has awful air quality with respiratory failure being the second most common cause of death (eg. lung cancer). I couldn't give a monkeys ass about percentage points in efficiency as long as it gets the smog out of the city.An internal combustion engine is actually a very efficient way to convert fuel into motive power. Inserting a battery and electric motor into the process just adds inefficiency. Hardly an "uncompromised" solution.
"Guilt-free" zero-emmission town driving with "maximum" on-track performance. Both limited by the compromises of lugging around an un-used petrol engine when in zero mode, and half a tonne of batteries when on track.
EliseKSK said:
So many problems here it's hard to decide where to begin.
An internal combustion engine is actually a very efficient way to convert fuel into motive power. Inserting a battery and electric motor into the process just adds inefficiency. Hardly an "uncompromised" solution.
Not really true. A high powered petrol engine driving the wheels directly, mostly at vastly below peak efficiency, will struggle to break the 15% efficiency mark (depending on just how high powered). A smaller engine running at peak efficiency when needed and switched off the rest of the time will achieve something like 45% efficiency. A battery/motor combination will easily be efficient enough to make that worthwhile. An internal combustion engine is actually a very efficient way to convert fuel into motive power. Inserting a battery and electric motor into the process just adds inefficiency. Hardly an "uncompromised" solution.
Yes the "guilt free" bit is rubbish though.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 12th January 11:20
vz-r_dave said:
Not for me, you cant call any car a sports car with a 1.2 engine no matter how much you dress it up. If it were to be fully electric like the Tesla than yes but when someone asks you the size of the engine and you spout 1.2 they will laugh in your face.
In that case they're very sad individuals. And if you care about the opinions of sad people, you're not much better yourself. By all means go and buy a car for other people if that's what you want to do, but personally I buy mine for myself.
vz-r_dave said:
Not for me, you cant call any car a sports car with a 1.2 engine no matter how much you dress it up. If it were to be fully electric like the Tesla than yes but when someone asks you the size of the engine and you spout 1.2 they will laugh in your face.
Our kid drives a 1.4 SEAT Ibiza. I wouldn't say that is not a quick car! It's twincharged magic. He can keep up with me in my Leon but when the race is over, he can get over 40 MPG and pays half the price in tax than me! Bonkers!Also, there are them caterham megabusa's. They are samll engined but rather quick.
vz-r_dave said:
Not for me, you cant call any car a sports car with a 1.2 engine no matter how much you dress it up. If it were to be fully electric like the Tesla than yes but when someone asks you the size of the engine and you spout 1.2 they will laugh in your face.
What an odd thing to say. You remind me of the girl in our office who was adamant that her 1200cc Corsa was faster than my palty 999cc Fireblade because it had a bigger engine."Guilt Free". Won't somebody think of the children!.
I have to say in all my years of driving I have never ever felt guilty about it in the slightest. Does that make me truely evil?
I'm sorry but that one phrase alone has spoilt any interest I might have had in this car, what a t*sser!.
I have to say in all my years of driving I have never ever felt guilty about it in the slightest. Does that make me truely evil?
I'm sorry but that one phrase alone has spoilt any interest I might have had in this car, what a t*sser!.
kambites said:
EliseKSK said:
So many problems here it's hard to decide where to begin.
An internal combustion engine is actually a very efficient way to convert fuel into motive power. Inserting a battery and electric motor into the process just adds inefficiency. Hardly an "uncompromised" solution.
Not really true. A high powered petrol engine driving the wheels directly, mostly at vastly below peak efficiency, will struggle to break the 15% efficiency mark (depending on just how high powered). A smaller engine running at peak efficiency when needed and switched off the rest of the time will achieve something like 45% efficiency. A battery/motor combination will easily be efficient enough to make that worthwhile. An internal combustion engine is actually a very efficient way to convert fuel into motive power. Inserting a battery and electric motor into the process just adds inefficiency. Hardly an "uncompromised" solution.
Yes the "guilt free" bit is rubbish though.
vz-r_dave said:
Not for me, you cant call any car a sports car with a 1.2 engine no matter how much you dress it up. If it were to be fully electric like the Tesla than yes but when someone asks you the size of the engine and you spout 1.2 they will laugh in your face.
I don't think your sentiment is accurate when it comes to this kind of vehicle since it's more of an ev than a gas powered one.However, as the owner of an S3 Esprit Turbo, one of the more popular questions is 'how big is the engine?' and I can't say anyone has ever been impressed with '2.2 liters' even when I clarify that it is turbo charged.
Once again, those clever marketing types forgot to include the word "tailpipe" between the words "zero" and "emissions".
That car, and no car ever built by anyone at anytime, has zero emissions.
In fact, technically they are "false advertising" just like if i sold you a fridge that cost "nothing" to run, but only because instead of paying your elecy bill as normal, every tuesday a man would come round and nick steal a tenner out of your wallet whilst you weren't looking..........
This point is made more than clear by the laws of our land. If i instruct a hit man to murder you, does that alleviate me of any "guilt" by default. No, of course not. And if my cars emissions pop out in rural Yorkshire from the flues of the Drax power station, does that likewise negate my need for "guilt" as to my cars environmental impact?
That car, and no car ever built by anyone at anytime, has zero emissions.
In fact, technically they are "false advertising" just like if i sold you a fridge that cost "nothing" to run, but only because instead of paying your elecy bill as normal, every tuesday a man would come round and nick steal a tenner out of your wallet whilst you weren't looking..........
This point is made more than clear by the laws of our land. If i instruct a hit man to murder you, does that alleviate me of any "guilt" by default. No, of course not. And if my cars emissions pop out in rural Yorkshire from the flues of the Drax power station, does that likewise negate my need for "guilt" as to my cars environmental impact?
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 12th January 21:50
vz-r_dave said:
Not for me, you cant call any car a sports car with a 1.2 engine no matter how much you dress it up. If it were to be fully electric like the Tesla than yes but when someone asks you the size of the engine and you spout 1.2 they will laugh in your face.
Bit of an odd opinion from someone who picked their username based on owning a 1.6 litre hatchback.Maybe I'm just grumpy today - but WHY!
They are spending fortunes trying to recreate the wheel with cars that are really nothing special and feel to me exactly what they really are - big Nissans.
Nothing wrong with that but the strange idea that we are suddenly going to be so overcome with desire for cars that are just "nice" that we will pay a big price for them is loopy.
Why oh why don't these companies realise that the way to do this is to pitch into the price slot that is just Volvos at the moment - so a decent discount to Premium but not Mainstream (we always called it Near-premium)and offer great packages for company users. Keep the benfit in kind low, build up a following, get some units out and about and then you can build price later if the elasticity will allow as your brand value expands.
Simples!
Pitching straight in with a product that needs explanation at a premium price is a quick way to low volume, massive marginal costs and a dusty death!!
They are spending fortunes trying to recreate the wheel with cars that are really nothing special and feel to me exactly what they really are - big Nissans.
Nothing wrong with that but the strange idea that we are suddenly going to be so overcome with desire for cars that are just "nice" that we will pay a big price for them is loopy.
Why oh why don't these companies realise that the way to do this is to pitch into the price slot that is just Volvos at the moment - so a decent discount to Premium but not Mainstream (we always called it Near-premium)and offer great packages for company users. Keep the benfit in kind low, build up a following, get some units out and about and then you can build price later if the elasticity will allow as your brand value expands.
Simples!
Pitching straight in with a product that needs explanation at a premium price is a quick way to low volume, massive marginal costs and a dusty death!!
I have no idea what the rest of the car looks lke but judging by the teaser pic provided what this 'concept' should really have is a tasty lightweight 2.0 turbo engine for blasting about the A roads and an electric motor for plodding around town.
My mind has already thought up what the rest of the car will look like and with a 1.2 engine it reminds me the MR2/Ferrari coversion.
My mind has already thought up what the rest of the car will look like and with a 1.2 engine it reminds me the MR2/Ferrari coversion.
Fetchez la vache said:
kambites said:
EliseKSK said:
So many problems here it's hard to decide where to begin.
An internal combustion engine is actually a very efficient way to convert fuel into motive power. Inserting a battery and electric motor into the process just adds inefficiency. Hardly an "uncompromised" solution.
Not really true. A high powered petrol engine driving the wheels directly, mostly at vastly below peak efficiency, will struggle to break the 15% efficiency mark (depending on just how high powered). A smaller engine running at peak efficiency when needed and switched off the rest of the time will achieve something like 45% efficiency. A battery/motor combination will easily be efficient enough to make that worthwhile. An internal combustion engine is actually a very efficient way to convert fuel into motive power. Inserting a battery and electric motor into the process just adds inefficiency. Hardly an "uncompromised" solution.
Yes the "guilt free" bit is rubbish though.
For example: VW Polo BlueMotion 81mpg, Toyota Prius 66mpg (official combined figures).
EliseKSK said:
Fetchez la vache said:
kambites said:
EliseKSK said:
So many problems here it's hard to decide where to begin.
An internal combustion engine is actually a very efficient way to convert fuel into motive power. Inserting a battery and electric motor into the process just adds inefficiency. Hardly an "uncompromised" solution.
Not really true. A high powered petrol engine driving the wheels directly, mostly at vastly below peak efficiency, will struggle to break the 15% efficiency mark (depending on just how high powered). A smaller engine running at peak efficiency when needed and switched off the rest of the time will achieve something like 45% efficiency. A battery/motor combination will easily be efficient enough to make that worthwhile. An internal combustion engine is actually a very efficient way to convert fuel into motive power. Inserting a battery and electric motor into the process just adds inefficiency. Hardly an "uncompromised" solution.
Yes the "guilt free" bit is rubbish though.
For example: VW Polo BlueMotion 81mpg, Toyota Prius 66mpg (official combined figures).
What does it matter anyway? It's not like they're going to build it! At least I'd highly doubt it'll reach production in that configuration. To me, series hybrids seem to be the logical choice if you want more efficiency. However, as of yet, almost all hybrid cars on sale are of the parallel design. Only being able to do ~30MPH in full-electric mode is rubbish, IMO.
All that said, I do believe the age of the electric car is coming(again) fast; I've already seen four Chevy Volts, two Nissan Leafs(Leaves?), and there are numerous Tesla Roadsters where I live.
All that said, I do believe the age of the electric car is coming(again) fast; I've already seen four Chevy Volts, two Nissan Leafs(Leaves?), and there are numerous Tesla Roadsters where I live.
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