RE: Ringside Seat: is the 'ring relevant?
Friday 10th February 2012
I enjoyed the image of Chris Harris asking Toyota GT 86 chief engineer Tetsuya Tada what it'd do round the 'ring and getting the 'don't know, don't care' response.
Less about numbers, more about thisLike everyone, I'd made special time to take in his brilliant GT 86 story and video. But to hear the Nurburgring shrugged off burned me up a little bit. If a lap time was totally irrelevant to the GT 86 why would Toyota have been entering the car in the VLN races last year? Why did it test the prototype here for two years?
RX-8 ticks many of the GT 86's boxes tooWhat is less relevant is a Nurburgring lap time. But not releasing a lap time at all is less about making a stand and more about not wanting to sell the GT 86 short to the fools who will only look at a car's lap time before buying. But do such fools even exist?
Mazda picked up RWD baton after AE 86Let me put my cards on the table. I am partial. No, I am partisan. I only sold my trackday Mazda MX-5 after eight years to buy a Mazda RX-8 instead.
The car our man says GT 86 has to beat!So, what will the GT 86 do around the Nurburgring? There's only one thing I want to know, and I apologise in advance for the narrow-mindedness I'm about to display: is it faster than my RX-8?
Ringside Seat: is the 'ring relevant?
Our man at the 'ring fights the corner for Nordschleife laps and an overlooked GT 86 alternative
Less about numbers, more about this
Twice last year I was nearly run clean off the road by suicidal 'scoop' photographers hanging from the passenger windows of cheap rentals taking to the pavements to try and catch a better shot of the GT 86 mule running between the track and workshop.
No, the Nurburgring is relevant and what's more it's a deciding ingredient in most modern performance cars.
RX-8 ticks many of the GT 86's boxes too
Let's face facts, a Clio Cup is going to kick the Toyota's arse all the way around the Nordschleife. And the FWD platform will also make it quicker point-to-point on public roads for 90 per cent of the driving population too. But is that going to factor into our buying decision? Probably not.
What Toyota has been quick to point out is that the GT 86 is less about the absolute limits and more about the feel when it's there. (Hurrah! - Ed)
Mazda picked up RWD baton after AE 86
Isn't this low-limits, steering-from-the-rear exactly what Mazda has been doing with the MX-5 since 1989? That's about the same time Toyota abandoned its awesome AE86 Corolla, by the way.
Don't even get me started on the RX-8 either. The last RX-8 of 2010 vintage was only a few kilos heavier, had more outright power, a much higher spec while costing less than the new base-model GT 86. Plus you can fit four adults in an RX-8 easily.
The car our man says GT 86 has to beat!
Discussion
I think the point is, the GT86 is significant because it is the start of fun to drive Toyotas. We know Mazdas are fun to drive; My Dads 08 MX5-RC manual, my sisters 09 Mazda2 (manual), hell even the old 1997 626 we had, that most conventional, grandparent type of car, was actually quite a fun steer, with a nice gearshift. Prior to getting his MX-5, dad, who has no interest in cars whatsoever (he only bought the MX-5 as he liked the gearshift feel) once got a Toyota Camry (2008) rental, and even he was surprised how devastatingly boring it was to drive ("it's utterly insipid") yet Camry's, Rav4s, Landcruisers, Yari'- they are the companies bread and butter, and all of a sudden, here comes a single focused drivers car. You could argue that the RX-8 was released when another Z was on the way, and competed against things like STI imprezas and Evos in terms of price, and that (when released), it isn't exactly affordable in the same way that cars like MX-5s and the usual hot hatch suspects are, whereas the GT-86 will be around 40k AUD which many people could aim for.
k that 
Given my username forgive me for defending the RX-8.
Yes, it might only do 25mpg if driven like a pansie...but I seriously doubt Toyota's claims that the boxer engine in the GT will do 40mpg. Driven the way most of us will drive it to have fun, I would suggest it will realistically be in the 20's.
Also whilst the handling might be very good, I can't see it beating a well driven RX-8, partiualrly the later R3 version which had improved suspension and body roll control
Yes the GT86 is without doubt a good car, and a great car in the Toyota stable (full of boring, plain cars) but whether it's the new benchmark sportscar some media seem to be representing im not sure.
Lets wait and see what Subaru do with the STI version.
Yes, it might only do 25mpg if driven like a pansie...but I seriously doubt Toyota's claims that the boxer engine in the GT will do 40mpg. Driven the way most of us will drive it to have fun, I would suggest it will realistically be in the 20's.
Also whilst the handling might be very good, I can't see it beating a well driven RX-8, partiualrly the later R3 version which had improved suspension and body roll control
Yes the GT86 is without doubt a good car, and a great car in the Toyota stable (full of boring, plain cars) but whether it's the new benchmark sportscar some media seem to be representing im not sure.
Lets wait and see what Subaru do with the STI version.
Si_man306 said:
the RX8 has done due to its extensive issues.
Here we go again...as we established in last weeks thread, most of the issues are in the minds of non owners.Those who have owned one for a few years, especially the cars from 2005/6 onwards have good reports to say about them, and miss them when they are gone.
I had 3 RX-7's and an RX-8 and the only gripe I had was MPG.
Everything else was perfect. I referred to my 1995 RX-7 (97,000 miles before I sold it in 2004 for the RX-8)as the Poor Man's Porsche--it was that good--2800 pounds, 255 HP, refined and a DRIVERS car.
I wish the RX-8 had more of the RX-7 in it, but it was a very refined vehicle that was a very tight car.
Everything else was perfect. I referred to my 1995 RX-7 (97,000 miles before I sold it in 2004 for the RX-8)as the Poor Man's Porsche--it was that good--2800 pounds, 255 HP, refined and a DRIVERS car.
I wish the RX-8 had more of the RX-7 in it, but it was a very refined vehicle that was a very tight car.
I know 2 people with RX7's and one with an RX8 and all of them say the same thing.
"they're not that expensive to run, I've only used 32 litres of oil this year and 15 mpg is ok"
Then something goes wrong
"New 99 bumper for my RX is £450 from Mazda"
They seem to say they're not expensive to run while simultaneously admit the huge money they spend running the damn things.
"they're not that expensive to run, I've only used 32 litres of oil this year and 15 mpg is ok"
Then something goes wrong
"New 99 bumper for my RX is £450 from Mazda"
They seem to say they're not expensive to run while simultaneously admit the huge money they spend running the damn things.
PHMatt said:
I know 2 people with RX7's and one with an RX8 and all of them say the same thing.
"they're not that expensive to run, I've only used 32 litres of oil this year and 15 mpg is ok"
Then something goes wrong
"New 99 bumper for my RX is £450 from Mazda"
They seem to say they're not expensive to run while simultaneously admit the huge money they spend running the damn things.
Yeah, but that's EXACTLY it..."they're not that expensive to run, I've only used 32 litres of oil this year and 15 mpg is ok"
Then something goes wrong
"New 99 bumper for my RX is £450 from Mazda"
They seem to say they're not expensive to run while simultaneously admit the huge money they spend running the damn things.
Your quotes are either from people who forgot to refit their sump plug or made up.
32 litres of oil in a year? No way...
15 MPG? Well, possibly, but unlikely unless you're on a track and then most similarly quick cars won't be much, if any, better.
The RX8 is thirsty (low to mid 20s), but it does that pretty much however you drive it.
Parts? £450 quid for a bumper from a dealer? Sounds pretty damned cheap for any make to me when the bumper is such a major part of bodywork, but you'd buy a used one if you were doing it yourself, surely?
So, to counter the fiction, some facts...
Insurance - £245 Fully comp this year.
RFL - £245 (mine's a pre March '06 one).
Servicing - Last one was under £200, I paid a lot more for my Skoda!
Oil? I think I bought £48 worth of oil back last summer - That was 7 litres (2 x 5 plus a free 1 litre with each) - I've JUST broken into the second 1 litre pack and both 5 litre packs are still sealed.
Tyres aren't cheap, but quality tyres aren't - No worse than anything else.
I did my front brake pads a couple of years ago, £25.
They're only REALLY expensive on fuel if you actually look at the facts, but where's the fun in that
M.
hmmm, think I might buy an RX-8 and wait for the second hand prices of GT86s to drop.
Quick question to all the RX-7 / RX-8 owners on this thread - which is the better driver's car out of the two?
I am sure the RX-8 is "better" in terms of refinement, reliability etc - but which is better with a PH cap on?
Quick question to all the RX-7 / RX-8 owners on this thread - which is the better driver's car out of the two?
I am sure the RX-8 is "better" in terms of refinement, reliability etc - but which is better with a PH cap on?
jimjim150 said:
RX8 owners I know have had expensive Cat replacement jobs
Depends what you call expensive.A stainless silenced decat is £145 delivered, or £220 for a brand new 2 year warranty Cat.
A dying cat can be because the plugs or coils have not been changed when they should be.
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