RE: Next Golf to get active diff

RE: Next Golf to get active diff

Friday 2nd March 2012

Next Golf to get active diff

Now that we're all up to speed with differentials we can get excited about new tech for Golf 7



Now that we all know our Torsen diff from our viscous coupling and the difference between eLSDs and active differentials, we can appreciate the benefits to the kind of cars we like. While getting a bit depressed that more and more manufacturers are choosing software rather than hardware when it comes to limited-slip differentials.

VW has been testing active diffs for next Golf
VW has been testing active diffs for next Golf
The modern way is to get the car's ESP brain to nip individual brakes to help it round corners instead of redirecting the torque mechanically. Not because it's better (it isn't) but because it's cheaper. But there is good news on that front. Volkswagen has been one of the worst offenders for palming us off with electronic brake intervention and calling it limited-slip diff under the EDS and XDS brand names.

Now it's saying the next Golf GTI will be available with a proper mechanical limited-slip diff, and an electronically controlled one at that.

That would make it the first production front-wheel-drive car in the world to get one.

No cliche left unturned in quest for traction
No cliche left unturned in quest for traction
Even better, it won't be restricted to the Golf. The technology has been developed for what VW internally calls the MQB platform. That will underpin everything from Polo to Passat, not mention small and medium Audis, Seats and Skodas, meaning theoretically they can all use the so-called VAQ tech.

VW wouldn't expand on its use within the group, but did say it would likely be an option on the next generation Golf GTI, the standard version of which will be revealed later this year, as well as the diesel GTD.

This is how good it will be. In a comparison between two racing-prepped Siroccos at the Nurburgring - one with, one without - the VAQ-equipped car averaged 8.5-second faster times. That's because instead of braking away power in the bends to help the car round, it redirects it to the outside wheel. And because it's taking information from throttle position, steering angle and other sources, it should be able to deliver power without the compromises of a passive system on, say, the Renault Megane 265.

Essential 'ring lap stats show extra speed
Essential 'ring lap stats show extra speed
If it was good as an excellent GKN front-drive LSD we tried on a Mini Cooper S recently, it could offer nicely controllable oversteer into the bargain.

The only drawback will be price. It's an expensive business integrating this tech and the standard Golf GTI isn't cheap. But if it creates the ultimate-handling hot hatch, maybe we won't mind paying.

Β 

Author
Discussion

Skater12

Original Poster:

501 posts

104 months

Friday 2nd March 2012
quotequote all
ok, but what about places it's lost speed in?
Additional weight ect may compromise performance in other ways.

Nick1point9

3,863 posts

126 months

Friday 2nd March 2012
quotequote all
Skater12 said:
ok, but what about places it's lost speed in?
Additional weight ect may compromise performance in other ways.
It's low down, sprung mass, can't be any more than 10kg of additional hardware, so will have 4/5 of fk all negative affect on a 1400kg car.

Krikkit

16,291 posts

127 months

Friday 2nd March 2012
quotequote all
I don't think there'll be much of a weight penalty for an e-Diff compared to a mechanical LSD. They're not heavy compared to the overall weight of the car anyway...

I think it's time to stop calling the Focus Golf GTI/R et al a hot hatch, they're more like super hatches now, most of them costing £30k or more.

Skater12

Original Poster:

501 posts

104 months

Friday 2nd March 2012
quotequote all
Nick1point9 said:
Skater12 said:
ok, but what about places it's lost speed in?
Additional weight ect may compromise performance in other ways.
It's low down, sprung mass, can't be any more than 10kg of additional hardware, so will have 4/5 of fk all negative affect on a 1400kg car.
That's fair enough then, i'd assumed it'd be much more of a weight dissadvantage than that.


Skater12

Original Poster:

501 posts

104 months

Friday 2nd March 2012
quotequote all
Krikkit said:
I think it's time to stop calling the Focus Golf GTI/R et al a hot hatch, they're more like super hatches now, most of them costing £30k or more.
I agree. A hot hatch should still fall into catagories that those in their early 20's can afford to run and insure, while still hooning around the countryside.

Renault 5GT, Clio 16v, Pug 205Gti, Zetec-s Fiesta, Lupo Gti etc etc.

rob.e

2,833 posts

224 months

Friday 2nd March 2012
quotequote all
If its really going to allow me to go that extra 3kph faster 'round the Schwalbenschwanz then count me in!


collateral

7,238 posts

164 months

Friday 2nd March 2012
quotequote all
Seems like a lot of effort/extra crap to go wrong for an 8 second difference in the hands of a pro driver over quite a long distance

RyanOakley

15 posts

101 months

Friday 2nd March 2012
quotequote all
You could go 8 seconds faster around the nurburgring if you didnt care about life and wasnt scared of dying...

Dr G

13,792 posts

188 months

Friday 2nd March 2012
quotequote all
RyanOakley said:
You could go 8 seconds faster around the nurburgring if you didnt care about life and wasnt scared of dying...
Fair point laugh

Tech sounds cool, I'll look forward to having a play.

Dave Hedgehog

11,334 posts

150 months

Friday 2nd March 2012
quotequote all
my dealer has a gti up for 36k

gonna be 40k by the time the LSD V7 comes out biggrin

EDLT

15,207 posts

152 months

Friday 2nd March 2012
quotequote all


Looking at the graph it seems you just stamp on the throttle and let the computers sort it out. If this was a Nissan GTR we'd be on page 20 with all the people complaining that the car drives itself.

dvance

605 posts

114 months

Friday 2nd March 2012
quotequote all
Stupid car drives itself! We need more mechanical cars for a better visceral experience.

There you go, happy now biggrin ?

Twincam16

27,646 posts

204 months

Friday 2nd March 2012
quotequote all
Skater12 said:
I agree. A hot hatch should still fall into catagories that those in their early 20's can afford to run and insure, while still hooning around the countryside.

Renault 5GT, Clio 16v, Pug 205Gti, Zetec-s Fiesta, Lupo Gti etc etc.
yes I see the Golf GTI et al more like the successors to the hot FWD coupes of the Nineties, like the Corrado VR6 and the Fiat 20v Turbo Coupe. They were lightning-fast, based on ordinary FWD saloon platforms but actually quite advanced (think about the 4WS system on the Honda Prelude, for example). Some of them are even getting towards coupe shape - the faster Meganes and Astras, for example, are only available in body shapes reminiscent of Alpine coupes and Calibra Turbos - and given the negligible price difference between a Golf GTI and a Scirocco you might as well see the latter as a coupe body-option of the former.

There are, however, plenty of hot hatches in the traditional sense in the bracket below. VW Polo GTI, Vauxhall Corsa VXR, Ford Fiesta Zetec-S, Skoda Fabia vRS, Suzuki Swift Sport, the various Abarth Fiats and so on.

People say that cars have 'grown', but what I think has really happened is that they've moved into the bracket above, and others have come in below to take their place. For example, a VW Polo GTI is roughly the same size and shape and offers the same kind of accommodation as an early Golf GTI, whilst a VW Lupo/Fox/Up takes the place of the original Polo, and the current Golf is almost like the old Santana - remember that five-door fastback version of the Passat?

It's interesting to see which models have 'disappeared' from certain manufacturers' ranges because certain nameplates have expanded beyond their original remit to take their place. Take Ford and Vauxhall for example. The big luxobarges - think Scorpio and Senator - both disappeared, but around the same time everything in the range shifted up a size and new tiny cars (Ka and Agila) turned up at the bottom of their ranges, everything shifted up a size, and actually the kind of buyers who once got Scorpios and Senators now buy the big Mondeos and Insignias.

P4ROT

1,216 posts

139 months

Friday 2nd March 2012
quotequote all


James May's going to go mad....lol

dhutch

4,151 posts

143 months

Friday 2nd March 2012
quotequote all
Skater12 said:
I agree. A hot hatch should still fall into catagories that those in their early 20's can afford to run and insure, while still hooning around the countryside.
+1

Im 24 and couldnt afford/justify that sort of wonga.
- To be honest, insurance as it is, ive settled on the 306 with the 110bhp 1.8 petrol!


Daniel

Skater12

Original Poster:

501 posts

104 months

Friday 2nd March 2012
quotequote all
dhutch said:
Skater12 said:
I agree. A hot hatch should still fall into catagories that those in their early 20's can afford to run and insure, while still hooning around the countryside.
+1

Im 24 and couldnt afford/justify that sort of wonga.
- To be honest, insurance as it is, ive settled on the 306 with the 110bhp 1.8 petrol!


Daniel
Daniel, if you want a quick and insurable new car, you do a lot worse than looking at Diesels like the 207.
A 207 3 door, with the 16 HDI 112BHP is a laugh. Punchy mid range tourque, and decent handling. Also, as a 3 door i reckon its a decent looking car for the money.

j123

881 posts

138 months

Friday 2nd March 2012
quotequote all
Nick,
Any thoughts on a conversion kit for the new Golf where we switch over from electric steering to hydraulic? Like Citroen do ... http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2010/07/citroen-revea... j

Kazlet

278 posts

117 months

Saturday 3rd March 2012
quotequote all
So a professional driver thrashing it on 16 miles of race track made 8.5 seconds difference. Good in race terms but not something you are ever going to notice on a road. It does seem rather pointless and will only add more cost to a car that is already ridiculously priced!

Crafty_

11,435 posts

146 months

Saturday 3rd March 2012
quotequote all
Kazlet said:
So a professional driver thrashing it on 16 miles of race track made 8.5 seconds difference. Good in race terms but not something you are ever going to notice on a road. It does seem rather pointless and will only add more cost to a car that is already ridiculously priced!
Ah but its worth it because its a golf. Apparently.

I agree though, they'd do better to stop making the things so flipping boring to drive.

Matt UK

13,458 posts

146 months

Saturday 3rd March 2012
quotequote all
rob.e said:
If its really going to allow me to go that extra 3kph faster 'round the Schwalbenschwanz then count me in!
hehe My sentiments exactly.