Monday 23rd April 2012

Beijing show: Ferrari HY-KERS for Enzo successor

F1-influenced hybrid technology displayed in powertrain for Enzo replacement

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Ferrari has been looking at ways of integrating hybrid technology into its road cars, having played around with the HY-KERS concept in the 599 already. And it looks like that's a step closer to production reality following the unveiling of a new mid-engined hybrid powertrain at the Beijing show, widely tipped as that of the forthcoming Enzo replacement due later this year.

HY-KERS first shown in a 599 test mule

Aligning its hybrid tech with the KERS label is, of course, perfect for Ferrari, the F1 connotations successfully combining the need at least to acknowledge eco concerns without diluting the brand's 'honed in F1' core values.

Porsche has been doing much the same in GT racing with its 911 GT3 R Hybrid, Audi and Toyota bringing electric assistance to endurance prototypes at Le Mans this year. All of which helps move hybrids away from the do-gooder, holier-than-thou Prius school and into a - possibly - more PH-worthy arena. Possibly.

So what's new with HY-KERS? The most significant thing is that it's now showing in a mid-engined application, having previously been displayed in a 599 GTB with a conventional V12 up front and a combined seven-speed dual-clutch gearbox and electric motor transaxle at the rear. Batteries mounted under the floorpan proved that the system could be accommodated in a conventional car without compromising packaging, the additional weight offset by the lowering of the centre of gravity. The latest system, Ferrari says, "can be positioned in the car in line with the available space and final configuration."

Front-engined design adapted to mid-engined now

Two years of additional development mean Ferrari hopes to significantly improve on the original goal of matching every kilo of additional weight with at least 1hp extra, now saying reduced component weight contributes to around 1.35hp per kilo gained. Coupled to one of the gearbox's two clutches, the HY-KERS motor can be engaged and disengaged as and when required and was designed from the start to be compatible with both front- and mid-engined designs. And it'll be in the latter for the new Enzo, as previewed by a V12 engine, transmission and electric motor combination on the Beijing stand, green-painted hybrid components jarring alongside more traditional red-painted cylinder heads. The numbers speak for themselves though, Ferrari promising a 10 per cent increase in performance with a 40 per cent cut in emissions.

Does this mean the new super-Ferrari will purr away from the line in near-silence, rather than a cacophony of V12 noise? Unlikely, thankfully. Ferrari is working on hybrid powertrains, but very much on its own terms and together with renewed focus on weight saving and aerodynamics. This is going green, but in a very Ferrari style.

[Gatsods]

Very interesting and I couldn't be more for this to be honest. People will say it's not 'pure' but they might also be living in the past, as long as the Enzo2 is rwd, which it will be, then this can only be an advantage!

The article could do with a good picture of the whole engine-gearbox-motors link though please PH!

[leon9191]

Iv got an idea, lets make cars heavier, more complicated, more expensive to build and buy all in the aid of artifically reducing co2 levels during a un-realistic test situation! Who comes up with this st!

[leon9191]

Iv got an idea, lets make cars heavier, more complicated, more expensive to build and buy all in the aid of artifically reducing co2 levels during a un-realistic test situation! Who comes up with this st!

[suffolk009]

The most significant thing is where the engine is? Really?

Delighted that F1 stuff is finding it's way into road cars.

Maybe a DRS button next, or a radio cut in (a bit like traffic info) for when you're getting tailgated on the autobahn or around the 'ring "...Fernando is faster than you."

[suffolk009]

leon9191 said:

Iv got an idea, lets make cars heavier, more complicated, more expensive to build and buy all in the aid of artifically reducing co2 levels during a un-realistic test situation! Who comes up with this st!

Would be lovely if they made a little Dino, simple tech, not so much to go wrong.

[GroundEffect]

leon9191 said:

Iv got an idea, lets make cars heavier, more complicated, more expensive to build and buy all in the aid of artifically reducing co2 levels during a un-realistic test situation! Who comes up with this st!

They're updating the NEDC to include more high-end testing, which up until now has been neglected.

[scubadude]

suffolk009 said:

Maybe a DRS button next, or a radio cut in (a bit like traffic info) for when you're getting tailgated on the autobahn or around the 'ring "...Fernando is faster than you."

:-) The petrol low warning buzzer has been repaced by "Box Box Box" call on the radio and the tyres no longer get slow punctures, they just shred themselves and tear chunks of the bodywork off... it'll make the weekend trip to the country more exciting thats for sure.

Will they do a Massa addition that automatically seeks out and rams Mclaren MP12-4C's?

[bobalog]

GroundEffect said:

They're updating the NEDC to include more high-end testing, which up until now has been neglected.

Any more info on this? I'm interested.

Was in a car with stop start (for the first time) at the weekend. And was surprised at how basic it was. Not sure what I expected, maybe a smoother, less intrusive start up. Surely it affects the life expectancy of an engine?

I expect with Ferrari, there'll be no gains in emmisions/mpg when the car is in "sport" and all the hybrid tech will be geared towards more power.

[suffolk009]

scubadude said:

suffolk009 said:

Maybe a DRS button next, or a radio cut in (a bit like traffic info) for when you're getting tailgated on the autobahn or around the 'ring "...Fernando is faster than you."

:-) The petrol low warning buzzer has been repaced by "Box Box Box" call on the radio and the tyres no longer get slow punctures, they just shred themselves and tear chunks of the bodywork off... it'll make the weekend trip to the country more exciting thats for sure.

Will they do a Massa addition that automatically seeks out and rams Mclaren MP12-4C's?

I'm guessing the Massa would also be a fair bit slower...

[zeppelin101]

GroundEffect said:

They're updating the NEDC to include more high-end testing, which up until now has been neglected.

WLTP has so far shown itself to be worse than just about every other test out there in terms of giving representative results and that is based on real world driving! It's easy to blame the test cycle but from my experience, that really isn't the problem.

bobalog said:

Was in a car with stop start (for the first time) at the weekend. And was surprised at how basic it was. Not sure what I expected, maybe a smoother, less intrusive start up. Surely it affects the life expectancy of an engine?

Not really a problem for life expectancy - the engines are put through many thousands of stop/start cycles to establish durability. 4 cylinder stop/start is usually pretty rough I've found, but 6 cylinder+ ones seem to be much better. The 535i I drove a few weeks ago was lovely, but the new 320d ED was dreadfully rough.

Edited by zeppelin101 on Monday 23 April 12:26

[blasos]

suffolk009 said:

Maybe a DRS button next, or a radio cut in (a bit like traffic info) for when you're getting tailgated on the autobahn or around the 'ring "...Fernando is faster than you."

Ha...................................ha. You're about 2 years late with that attempted joke.

[scholesy]

As already said, surely instead of this hybrid rubbish, just stick on a basic (token) stop start system that will be left off by all owners. Why add the hybrid tech and increase weight and therefore fuel consumption, when they could just work towards finding ways to reduce weight and increase aerodynamic efficiency. It always seems counter-intuitive to add weight to try to combat higher fuel consumption, a problem that is caused by the increased weight of modern cars.

[suffolk009]

blasos said:

suffolk009 said:

Maybe a DRS button next, or a radio cut in (a bit like traffic info) for when you're getting tailgated on the autobahn or around the 'ring "...Fernando is faster than you."

Ha...................................ha. You're about 2 years late with that attempted joke.

I know, I know. But it still makes me laugh.

[Dreamspeed]

It’s just an observation, but does fitting hybrid technology into cars like Ferrari and Porsche now make cars like the Toyota Prius desirable and “cool” or does it have an adverse effect on the exotic brands who’s history has now been diluted, making them considerable less desirable?

If it’s the aforementioned, and the Toyota Prius is now a “cool” and a desirable car, then what were true car enthusiast and “Piston-headers” so against with the Toyota Prius (and other hybrid cars) in the first place?

Should true car enthusiast take a firm stand on this and stick to their original opinion that all Hybrids, including the latest Ferrari/Porsche, are not an automobile that should be lusted over and should be consigned to the “Un-cool” wall.

Or should we accept this, saying it’s the future, and do a U-turn on our original opinion on the “Un-cool” Hybrid?

Also, like this article suggests “Does this mean the new super-Ferrari will purr away from the line in near-silence, rather than a cacophony of V12 noise?” isn’t the sound that the Ferrari V12 engine makes, part of the overall experience and magic of such a car? If you remove this, surely it changes the essence of what the Ferrari brand stands for now and must make you consider why you would wish to continue to buy into such a brand?

[Rawwr]

Hitch hykers?

[TomMc1990]

Surely this is just a way of lowering the companies overall emissions rating, and the customer will have the choice of having the hybrid or the b-e-a-utiful naturally aspirated v12. Pretty much like the cygnet for Aston Martin.

You don't see Lambo's with this st because their C02 is offset against bluemotion cars and other eco VW's .

So my guess is this is just a cover up for those green lunatics that want change. But really, the prancing horse is still doing things their way.

Edited by Gaz. on Tuesday 24th April 00:03

[thinfourth2]

Dreamspeed said:

It’s just an observation, but does fitting hybrid technology into cars like Ferrari and Porsche now make cars like the Toyota Prius desirable and “cool” or does it have an adverse effect on the exotic brands who’s history has now been diluted, making them considerable less desirable?

If it’s the aforementioned, and the Toyota Prius is now a “cool” and a desirable car, then what were true car enthusiast and “Piston-headers” so against with the Toyota Prius (and other hybrid cars) in the first place?

Should true car enthusiast take a firm stand on this and stick to their original opinion that all Hybrids, including the latest Ferrari/Porsche, are not an automobile that should be lusted over and should be consigned to the “Un-cool” wall.

Or should we accept this, saying it’s the future, and do a U-turn on our original opinion on the “Un-cool” Hybrid?

Also, like this article suggests “Does this mean the new super-Ferrari will purr away from the line in near-silence, rather than a cacophony of V12 noise?” isn’t the sound that the Ferrari V12 engine makes, part of the overall experience and magic of such a car? If you remove this, surely it changes the essence of what the Ferrari brand stands for now and must make you consider why you would wish to continue to buy into such a brand?

Ferrari has KERS which is a small electric motor which assists the petrol engine under acceleration This is cool

A prius is a hybrid which is a small electric motor which assists the petrol engine under acceleration This is uncool

[Wills2]

suffolk009 said:

blasos said:

suffolk009 said:

Maybe a DRS button next, or a radio cut in (a bit like traffic info) for when you're getting tailgated on the autobahn or around the 'ring "...Fernando is faster than you."

Ha...................................ha. You're about 2 years late with that attempted joke.

I know, I know. But it still makes me laugh.

I liked it, made me chuckle.

[trialsta]

I think this just shows that something with 'hybrid' in it can actually be cool, they don't all have to be as dire as a Prius

[tommy vercetti]

Maybe a DRS button next, or a radio cut in (a bit like traffic info) for when you're getting tailgated on the autobahn or around the 'ring "...Fernando is faster than you."
[/quote]

lol