RE: PH Blog: give McLaren a break
Monday 28th May 2012
I was chatting with Mr Harris last week about whether or not I was fair in my criticism of the McLaren MP4-12C’s gear shift mannerisms. He admitted he’d never encountered the ‘will it shift one gear or maybe three?’ thing I’d got myself muddled over but in our chat he opined that we should all get behind the McLaren a bit more.
Should we be nicer to the MP4-12C?And I can see his point. It’s a peculiarly British habit this. We’re a lot harsher on our own and very quick to knock down to size any in our midst who looks like they might be getting a bit big for their boots.
McLaren to Smart in one move - interesting!There’s a lot to love about the car for sure. Not least the fact that reactions to it are overwhelmingly positive, even if there seems some confusion as to what it is. “Awesome mate, just awesome … what is it? Lotus, right? Nah, Noble, wait…” Spend any time in a Ferrari and you’ll get as much hate as you do love. But, much like the Morgan Plus 8 we ran, Joe Public seems much more generously disposed and willing to get behind a British car than many of us jaded hacks.
PH Blog: give McLaren a break
Why are we so mean to McLaren? Because we're British!
Should we be nicer to the MP4-12C?
Warts and all the MP4-12C is a car we should be more proud of as a nation. Pretty much all of the significant elements of that car are from scratch, engine, transmission, body and more included. As Chris said in his piece accompanying his video on it, to run Ferrari at the top of its game a very close second with your first roll of the dice is pretty damned impressive for anyone, let alone the very first (relatively) mass-produced car you’ve ever built off your own back.
And you can’t fault McLaren for its ambition. Sure, it could have made a ‘simple’ one-up, one-down paddle shifter gearbox, but it looked at what was out there and sought a way of stamping its own identity and tech-obsessed character on it. Personally I didn’t get on with it but, as I was corrected by an owner in the thread that followed, as you live with the car and adapt to it things improve. It may sound like a strange comparison but I’ve always railed against those who entirely dismiss the Smart Coupe/Roadster (stop sniggering at the back) on account of its gearbox being crap – I’ve spent loads of time in them and if you learn your way around it you can get it to work just fine. Maybe I should have been a little more tolerant of the 12C.
McLaren to Smart in one move - interesting!
The Lotus one is an interesting one too. Never mind the political picture; I wonder where the MP4-12C leaves the Esprit. To my mind the McLaren occupies exactly the territory Lotus was probably aiming for. Where to go from there then? Make the Esprit super hardcore? Noble’s already there. Cheaper and more rounded? R8 or the inevitable 911 instead maybe. No, the McLaren is right there and even feels a bit Lotusy. Or should that just be feels British?
Whatever, it’s a car to be proud of, niggles or not. And if this is the opening gambit we’ve got a lot to look forward to.
Dan
Discussion
Agreed, you shouldn't be too quick to judge, especially about a single feature.
I read an R8 GT review recently where it was slated because it was late picking 3rd into a corner... the reviewer had it in comfort/auto, so what did he expect?
It wasn't you was it?
In a world where most people won't get to drive one of these things themselves in order to make up their own mind, it's more important for a good balanced review from the journos.
[Update: yes, it was you]
I read an R8 GT review recently where it was slated because it was late picking 3rd into a corner... the reviewer had it in comfort/auto, so what did he expect?
It wasn't you was it?
In a world where most people won't get to drive one of these things themselves in order to make up their own mind, it's more important for a good balanced review from the journos.
[Update: yes, it was you]
Edited by goron59 on Monday 28th May 16:43
I think we should all be very proud of what McLaren have achieved with the MP4-12C instead of picking holes in it. Look how proud other countries are of their car manufacturers. I think it’s a brilliant car and its showcases how talented this country is when it comes to engineering something better than anyone else.
The one thing I will say and this is not to say we shouldn't be proud of the MP4-12C but it doesn't excite me like a TVR. They are and always will be my favourite car company.
They were/are a million times worse than the MP4-12C in almost every area but they are exciting, a bit mad and full of character and possibly that’s even more British.
The one thing I will say and this is not to say we shouldn't be proud of the MP4-12C but it doesn't excite me like a TVR. They are and always will be my favourite car company.
They were/are a million times worse than the MP4-12C in almost every area but they are exciting, a bit mad and full of character and possibly that’s even more British.
goron59 said:
[Update: yes, it was you]
It was!Yes, the gearbox works OK in manual mode via the paddles for the track. And that is, of course, what you'd use out of choice for that kind of driving. But when we drove the GT coupe (most likely the review you refer too) we weren't able to drive on the road and I wanted to simulate what it would be like if you, say, approached a roundabout in auto mode at a fair lick and might reasonably expect it to bang down through the ratios as would happen with the auto mode on a 458, PDK-equipped Porsche or Merc SLS. It didn't and I effectively sailed round the corner with no engine braking, much as if I'd just dipped the clutch. To test the theory I did take the Spyder out on the road and on the first roundabout it did exactly that, coasting round about two gears up from where it should have been and understeering horribly.
Like I said, acceptable in manual mode. But if we test a car we've got to sample all the available modes, not just the everything up to 11 every red-blooded PHer would obviously drive round in at all times!
Hope this clears it up a bit.
Indeed, over here we tend to hold TVRs, Lotuses, Nobles, Morgans et al in a totally different (higher) regard than people in the UK seem to do - but that may be because most of us have done the 'German car' thing at some point and found it lacking in involvement, excitement and, somehow, the 'wow' factor; and most Ferraris here are red and belong to a rental/incentive company. 
Thing is with the McLaren - to 'run Ferrari a close second' isn't enough. It would be, if a) it would be a lot more characterful and absorbing than Ferrari/Porsche et al, and b) the F1 did not exist.
Perhaps unfairly, the towering achievement of the latter - in spite of the faults it undoubtedly will have - raises the level of expectation for anything that wears the McLaren badge to where it should be no less than a game-changer or we'll be slightly disappointed at least.
Thing is with the McLaren - to 'run Ferrari a close second' isn't enough. It would be, if a) it would be a lot more characterful and absorbing than Ferrari/Porsche et al, and b) the F1 did not exist.
Perhaps unfairly, the towering achievement of the latter - in spite of the faults it undoubtedly will have - raises the level of expectation for anything that wears the McLaren badge to where it should be no less than a game-changer or we'll be slightly disappointed at least.
Agree with idea that we should be patriotic and passionate about what McLaren are doing. Italians spontaneously spout poems of love and devotion when a Ferrari or Lambo goes by, but in this country you're more likely to hear "rich bastid" or "posh twit" plop out of the mouth of the average Stella swigging resident.
If Radio 1 are able get Peter Andre back to number 1, PH should be able to start a campaign in support of McLaren and help inspire a solid sense of Britishness in the hearts of all us enthusiasts and all those fortunate enough to see an MP4-12C. After all, with the Olympics and the Jubilee, there's plenty of excuse for some red white and blue.
Edit - Here, I'll start:
Thank you McLaren.
If Radio 1 are able get Peter Andre back to number 1, PH should be able to start a campaign in support of McLaren and help inspire a solid sense of Britishness in the hearts of all us enthusiasts and all those fortunate enough to see an MP4-12C. After all, with the Olympics and the Jubilee, there's plenty of excuse for some red white and blue.
Edit - Here, I'll start:
Thank you McLaren.
"...to run Ferrari at the top of its game a very close second with your first roll of the dice is pretty damned impressive for anyone."
There you go again. McLaren produce a car that is, as someone else said, "statistically better in every measurable way than the 458". So what do the journos cry in unison - oh it lacks that immesurable quality: soul.
Give it a rest will you. If I could afford a car like that, there is no way Ferrari would get my order. For people like me, (Caterhams, Elises, TVRs) McLaren is the direction to head towards. Not the ridiculous Ferrari myth.
Looking forward to the new McLaren supercar, and then the little one after that.
There you go again. McLaren produce a car that is, as someone else said, "statistically better in every measurable way than the 458". So what do the journos cry in unison - oh it lacks that immesurable quality: soul.
Give it a rest will you. If I could afford a car like that, there is no way Ferrari would get my order. For people like me, (Caterhams, Elises, TVRs) McLaren is the direction to head towards. Not the ridiculous Ferrari myth.
Looking forward to the new McLaren supercar, and then the little one after that.
IanO said:
We should give the MP4-12C a proper name - whilst it has a code like a washing machine, you treat it like one. Either just McLaren F2, like the Audi R8 or Noble M12. Alternatively a real name like Lotus Esprit, Ferrari Daytona - just not the McLaren Woking.
Using the "Daytona" as our cue: we can just assign it a name. The 365GTB/4 was never officially a Daytona, the name belonged to Studebaked after all...McLaren Nurburgring, anyone?
Too soon?
Personally, I see no issue with him voicing the frustrations he seemed to be having with the transmission. A fair and honest appraisal is surely what these articles are about? Choosing not to mention these or making out as if every aspect is 100% perfect because people think doing anything other than this is 'unpatriotic' to a UK product just seems the wrong to me.
I would certainly trust McLaren with my money because of the finish and detail and the couldn't care less attitude from Ferrari dealers except for Maranello at Egham would ensure I turned most of them down.
Meanwhile my money would go to McLaren as I am sure if I turned up at Woking with a problem, Ron would make sure it was fixed whereas it's a long way to Italy if the dealership won't play ball.
Finally, it would also put you near the front of the queue for the McLaren F1 replacement coming soon.
Meanwhile my money would go to McLaren as I am sure if I turned up at Woking with a problem, Ron would make sure it was fixed whereas it's a long way to Italy if the dealership won't play ball.
Finally, it would also put you near the front of the queue for the McLaren F1 replacement coming soon.
IanO said:
We should give the MP4-12C a proper name - whilst it has a code like a washing machine, you treat it like one. Either just McLaren F2, like the Audi R8 or Noble M12. Alternatively a real name like Lotus Esprit, Ferrari Daytona - just not the McLaren Woking.
I'd call mine fred, tbhIanO said:
We should give the MP4-12C a proper name - whilst it has a code like a washing machine, you treat it like one. Either just McLaren F2, like the Audi R8 or Noble M12. Alternatively a real name like Lotus Esprit, Ferrari Daytona - just not the McLaren Woking.
If you started calling the 458 an "Italia" a lot of people wouldn't have a clue what you were talking about.900T-R said:
Indeed, over here we tend to hold TVRs, Lotuses, Nobles, Morgans et al in a totally different (higher) regard than people in the UK seem to do - but that may be because most of us have done the 'German car' thing at some point and found it lacking in involvement, excitement and, somehow, the 'wow' factor; and most Ferraris here are red and belong to a rental/incentive company.
Thing is with the McLaren - to 'run Ferrari a close second' isn't enough. It would be, if a) it would be a lot more characterful and absorbing than Ferrari/Porsche et al, and b) the F1 did not exist.
Perhaps unfairly, the towering achievement of the latter - in spite of the faults it undoubtedly will have - raises the level of expectation for anything that wears the McLaren badge to where it should be no less than a game-changer or we'll be slightly disappointed at least.
Thing is with the McLaren - to 'run Ferrari a close second' isn't enough. It would be, if a) it would be a lot more characterful and absorbing than Ferrari/Porsche et al, and b) the F1 did not exist.
Perhaps unfairly, the towering achievement of the latter - in spite of the faults it undoubtedly will have - raises the level of expectation for anything that wears the McLaren badge to where it should be no less than a game-changer or we'll be slightly disappointed at least.
Arun_D said:
Personally, I see no issue with him voicing the frustrations he seemed to be having with the transmission. A fair and honest appraisal is surely what these articles are about? Choosing not to mention these or making out as if every aspect is 100% perfect because people think doing anything other than this is 'unpatriotic' to a UK product just seems the wrong to me.
Agree with both posts. Of course you can't measure soul or character, but it's that intangiable groin tingling feeling that you get when looking at / driving a car that add up more than the bare facts alone. At this price point performance is always a given and will be waaaay more than needed on the road, so the unmeasurable needs to play a big part in things too.Each 12C I've seen has left me just feeling a bit "meh". The look is altogether too generic & cold, much like the company that built it. Mclaren need to let their hair down and find some passion / fun in their work, then their a 9/10 gearshift wouldn't be such an issue. Looking at the race 12Cs, they're much more like it... some of that for the road pls
If I was ever lucky enough to have the necessary cash, I'd not give a 12C a 2nd glance.... Maybe I'd look at a Lambo, because afterall, if you're going to have a supercar it should have some pantomime & theatre. Then again, I'm a pauper, so it's all hypothetical anyway!
One reason for loving the McLaren above its peers struck me in Monaco over the last 5 days - 458's are so common down there during Cannes Festival / GP weekend that the one and only McLaren I saw (in Volcano with full carbon trim / black wheels - perfect spec) shone like a beacon of perfect individuality. The numerous 458's in red / black or yellow just didn't tick the same box. I have no doubt that on the very edge of the performance envelope that the 458 may feel better and more involving (I loved Clarkson's stockings vs tights summing up on TG) but part of the reason people can afford these cars buy them is for the visual impact on the public at large. Subjectively, the McLaren is to me more like a bespoke suit. The 458 is a very good off the peg alternative that may last longer and be stain repellent.
I would like either. I would love the MP4/12C
As for the name, I agree it needs to change or "evolve".
I would like either. I would love the MP4/12C
As for the name, I agree it needs to change or "evolve".
Why are we saying the McLaren has come second to Ferrari, surely this is in the eyes of the driver/owner?
I have done many miles in a 458 and yes it is very accomplished. But after parking it up and handing back the keys I felt no desire to look back at it as I walked back to my car. It left me cold. The styling is a mish mash which I think will date badly and the driving experience too Playstation like. It’s quick yes but requires no real effort or skill to drive fast and its engine note whilst initially interesting becomes a real drone over a distance with little character.
Now I have yet to drive an MP4 but I much prefer its understated looks both inside and out. As for the driving experience hopefully I will find out soon
I have done many miles in a 458 and yes it is very accomplished. But after parking it up and handing back the keys I felt no desire to look back at it as I walked back to my car. It left me cold. The styling is a mish mash which I think will date badly and the driving experience too Playstation like. It’s quick yes but requires no real effort or skill to drive fast and its engine note whilst initially interesting becomes a real drone over a distance with little character.
Now I have yet to drive an MP4 but I much prefer its understated looks both inside and out. As for the driving experience hopefully I will find out soon
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff