RE: PH Blog: S express
Wednesday 20th June 2012
So after a week, quite a few miles and hours at the wheel the PH Le Mans Audi S4 is shortly to return to its keepers. And leaves me impressed.
The PH S4 camping it up at Le MansHot Audis are a curious breed. And the S4 Avant only vindicates my growing suspicion that the S models are the ones to go for, at least in the current line-up. I’m not, for instance, going to offer any sort of argument against the previous RS4, a truly wonderful combination of noise, poise and subtle menace that the new version apparently muddies with needless complexity and gizmo related faffage.
Fast, subtle, balanced and comfy tooThis transpired on the launch a couple of years back. On dry tarmac it was business-as-usual fast Audi. Nice cabin. Understeers a bit. Copy filed and job done. And then we got to a little kart track where the benefits of the Sports Differential were to be demonstrated. And it rained. And without that passing shower I’d have written the S4 off as just another fast Audi.
Manual V8 S5 more fun than an RS5?That memory stuck with me and though our Le Mans S4 didn’t have the Sports Differential it still seemed a nicely balanced package, thankfully free of the worst of the tech overload and with a usable, useful amount of performance and attitude entirely relevant to its role. Cripes, it even rode OK!
PH Blog: S express
Why S sometimes beats RS when it comes to PH-friendly Audis
The PH S4 camping it up at Le Mans
Pick your way carefully around the S4 spec sheet though and, to some extent, you can get much of the previous RS’s appeal, the pick of the gadgets that do work and the ability to pass on the ones that don’t. OK, noisy V8 beats supercharged V6 any day of the week. But with the optional Sports Differential (£620 and available on non-S 3.0 TDI A4s too) it can do most unexpected things.
Fast, subtle, balanced and comfy too
First clue I was wrong was a chat with an engineer who said they’d benchmarked the Sports Differential against the Mitsubishi Evo’s Active Yaw Control and Super All Wheel Control. Really? With that in mind and on a devilishly slippery kart track I decided to see what lurked beyond default Audi understeer. Sure enough on turn-in it wanted to plough on. But with throttle came a most surprising response – a gentle transition to the rear axle, a quarter turn of opposite lock and a predictable, graceful slide out of the corner all four wheels scrabbling. Amazed I remember trying it again. And again.
Manual V8 S5 more fun than an RS5?
Same goes for the TT S, which is much more lively, gutsy and fun than the faster but stodgy and uninspiring RS version, a pattern repeated with the RS5. Especially if you dig out a pre-facelift S5, before the switch to the supercharged V6. What’s not to likeabout the combination of Audi’s lovely, free-revving 4.2 V8, subtle looks and a close-ratio six-speed manual, after all. The gap is narrower with the more back to basics RS3, which is a cool car in its own right. But the S3 is not far off, more attainable, easily tuned and also available as a manual.
Proof that a little bit less can add up to a whole lot more, at least when it comes to fast Audis.
Dan
Discussion
Great article, and I couldnt agree more.Hello Dan
Have to agree - wife has a 2011 S3 black-edition 3 door manual with a slight(stage one) Revo remap.
Puts 317bhp and 325lbs of torque (300 from 2400 rpm - all confirmed on rolling road) and it is fabulous to drive - I kept the standard 18 - inch alloys as well and the ride is more than acceptable almost all of the time.
We test-drove the RS3(on 19 inch wheels as standard) and found that the ride was appalling and the tramlining on the uneven roads of surrey and sussex totally unacceptable.
The Daytona Grey one we speculatively ordered(before taking the above-mentioned test drive!) is now sitting in the showroom at at Crawley Audi - it looks fantastic.
The deposit from that RS3 has been transferred across to a new A6 Avant 3.0 twin-turbo S-line, which I will be collecting next week (chopping in my Q7).
313 bhp and 476 lbs of torque - looking forward to it, especially having seen the Youtube video of it against the BMW 550d in Germany(exact times to 60,100,155 mph).
We will be keeping the S3 - it's fantastic.
Have to agree - wife has a 2011 S3 black-edition 3 door manual with a slight(stage one) Revo remap.
Puts 317bhp and 325lbs of torque (300 from 2400 rpm - all confirmed on rolling road) and it is fabulous to drive - I kept the standard 18 - inch alloys as well and the ride is more than acceptable almost all of the time.
We test-drove the RS3(on 19 inch wheels as standard) and found that the ride was appalling and the tramlining on the uneven roads of surrey and sussex totally unacceptable.
The Daytona Grey one we speculatively ordered(before taking the above-mentioned test drive!) is now sitting in the showroom at at Crawley Audi - it looks fantastic.
The deposit from that RS3 has been transferred across to a new A6 Avant 3.0 twin-turbo S-line, which I will be collecting next week (chopping in my Q7).
313 bhp and 476 lbs of torque - looking forward to it, especially having seen the Youtube video of it against the BMW 550d in Germany(exact times to 60,100,155 mph).
We will be keeping the S3 - it's fantastic.
S6 V10 Avant is a fantastic car - not blindingly quick like an RS6 or E63 but fast enough to deal with most things
in 2008 my Audi Dealer let me have one for a weekend - christ I had some fun, but boy was it thirsty - 11 mpg.
As I paid for my own fuel I couldn't justify it at the time( was doing 25000 miles per year), but it worked out OK for him because I bought my first Q7 from him.
Have to admit, though, they are great value and as a high days and holidays car it fits the bill....................very nicely
in 2008 my Audi Dealer let me have one for a weekend - christ I had some fun, but boy was it thirsty - 11 mpg.
As I paid for my own fuel I couldn't justify it at the time( was doing 25000 miles per year), but it worked out OK for him because I bought my first Q7 from him.
Have to admit, though, they are great value and as a high days and holidays car it fits the bill....................very nicely
Totally agree with this, all the audis I like are s models. TTS, S3 and S4....Can't see the point in the RS4 over the S4, except for outright power and the V8 rumble. The S4 avant is more performance than most people will ever need and will do 30+ MPG on a long gentle run...I REALLY like the Mk2 S3. Keep waiting for prices to drop but they remain stubbornly high.
interesting, i suspect the S4s low own grunt will be far usable than the RS4s V8 grunt in real world driving
agree but all the electricary nonsense, but luckily you can spec the RS4 without it, to my spec its 61.5k which is not as much as i expected, loaded you can get it to 84k thou!!!
wouldnt agree about the S3 / RS3 thou having just put 4k miles on an S3 it has a real lack of low down grunt, gets totally out of shape on what i would consider moderate braking (feels like each front wheel is going in different directions) the 6 speed DSG is clumsy and dithers occasionally compared to the 7 speed but the amazing thing is the ride is vastly worse getting very close to crashy even thou the S3 rolls like a ship at sea on hard cornering, the 4 pot has very little character as well whilst the i5 wails with soul
trailing throttle oversteer is extremely easy in the S3 thou, very reminiscent of the R32 in placing the car on the road
agree but all the electricary nonsense, but luckily you can spec the RS4 without it, to my spec its 61.5k which is not as much as i expected, loaded you can get it to 84k thou!!!
wouldnt agree about the S3 / RS3 thou having just put 4k miles on an S3 it has a real lack of low down grunt, gets totally out of shape on what i would consider moderate braking (feels like each front wheel is going in different directions) the 6 speed DSG is clumsy and dithers occasionally compared to the 7 speed but the amazing thing is the ride is vastly worse getting very close to crashy even thou the S3 rolls like a ship at sea on hard cornering, the 4 pot has very little character as well whilst the i5 wails with soul
trailing throttle oversteer is extremely easy in the S3 thou, very reminiscent of the R32 in placing the car on the road
Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Wednesday 20th June 17:08
Ive got the S4 avant and its a great piece of kit. I almost wasn't going to buy another super quick saloon/ estate after selling an E60 M5 I had for a bit but got bored with, but the Audi just does everything so well. Its great all rounder and Ill be hard pushed to replace it with something different when I get rid next March. Its as fast as you could want with loads of gadgets and loads of boot space.
Im lucky to also have a TVR Cerbera and a 997 carrera 4 and frankly the audi is as quick cross country as the TVR and possibly than the 911. Mainly due to drivability, the 7 speed box in it is awesome.
Im lucky to also have a TVR Cerbera and a 997 carrera 4 and frankly the audi is as quick cross country as the TVR and possibly than the 911. Mainly due to drivability, the 7 speed box in it is awesome.
vjj said:
S6 V10 Avant is a fantastic car - not blindingly quick like an RS6 or E63 but fast enough to deal with most things
in 2008 my Audi Dealer let me have one for a weekend - christ I had some fun, but boy was it thirsty - 11 mpg.
As I paid for my own fuel I couldn't justify it at the time( was doing 25000 miles per year), but it worked out OK for him because I bought my first Q7 from him.
Have to admit, though, they are great value and as a high days and holidays car it fits the bill....................very nicely
Hi vjj - I used to work there! Who do you buy your cars from??in 2008 my Audi Dealer let me have one for a weekend - christ I had some fun, but boy was it thirsty - 11 mpg.
As I paid for my own fuel I couldn't justify it at the time( was doing 25000 miles per year), but it worked out OK for him because I bought my first Q7 from him.
Have to admit, though, they are great value and as a high days and holidays car it fits the bill....................very nicely
Jip said:
vjj said:
S6 V10 Avant is a fantastic car - not blindingly quick like an RS6 or E63 but fast enough to deal with most things
in 2008 my Audi Dealer let me have one for a weekend - christ I had some fun, but boy was it thirsty - 11 mpg.
As I paid for my own fuel I couldn't justify it at the time( was doing 25000 miles per year), but it worked out OK for him because I bought my first Q7 from him.
Have to admit, though, they are great value and as a high days and holidays car it fits the bill....................very nicely
Hi vjj - I used to work there! Who do you buy your cars from??in 2008 my Audi Dealer let me have one for a weekend - christ I had some fun, but boy was it thirsty - 11 mpg.
As I paid for my own fuel I couldn't justify it at the time( was doing 25000 miles per year), but it worked out OK for him because I bought my first Q7 from him.
Have to admit, though, they are great value and as a high days and holidays car it fits the bill....................very nicely
We have had from him - TT V6 3.2 Roadster KU57 EDF(wife) - used
S3 Black edition GY60 ***(wife) - new - still have
Q7 TDI S line BJ57 CYX (me) - used
Q7 Tdi S line plus GU12 *** (me) - new still have and will be PX against................A6 Avant TDi Biturbo - reg tbc (me) - new - delivery next week
Chopping in Q7 ' cos some T**t crashed in to the side of it - been repaired by audi but lost love for it - managed to do a swap for the A6 BiTurbo with no money in (Q7 very high spec - over 60k list - A6 54k list, got 5k off the Q7 back in March so I am happy with the deal)
Dave Hedgehog said:
interesting, i suspect the S4s low own grunt will be far usable than the RS4s V8 grunt in real world driving
agree but all the electricary nonsense, but luckily you can spec the RS4 without it, to my spec its 61.5k which is not as much as i expected, loaded you can get it to 84k thou!!!
wouldnt agree about the S3 / RS3 thou having just put 4k miles on an S3 it has a real lack of low down grunt, gets totally out of shape on what i would consider moderate braking (feels like each front wheel is going in different directions) the 6 speed DSG is clumsy and dithers occasionally compared to the 7 speed but the amazing thing is the ride is vastly worse getting very close to crashy even thou the S3 rolls like a ship at sea on hard cornering, the 4 pot has very little character as well whilst the i5 wails with soul
trailing throttle oversteer is extremely easy in the S3 thou, very reminiscent of the R32 in placing the car on the road
Get the revo remap - it changes the car completelyagree but all the electricary nonsense, but luckily you can spec the RS4 without it, to my spec its 61.5k which is not as much as i expected, loaded you can get it to 84k thou!!!
wouldnt agree about the S3 / RS3 thou having just put 4k miles on an S3 it has a real lack of low down grunt, gets totally out of shape on what i would consider moderate braking (feels like each front wheel is going in different directions) the 6 speed DSG is clumsy and dithers occasionally compared to the 7 speed but the amazing thing is the ride is vastly worse getting very close to crashy even thou the S3 rolls like a ship at sea on hard cornering, the 4 pot has very little character as well whilst the i5 wails with soul
trailing throttle oversteer is extremely easy in the S3 thou, very reminiscent of the R32 in placing the car on the road
Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Wednesday 20th June 17:08
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