RE: Tell Me I'm Wrong: Porsche 911 996 GT3

RE: Tell Me I'm Wrong: Porsche 911 996 GT3

Wednesday 25th July 2012

Tell Me I'm Wrong: Porsche 911 996 GT3

You'd have to be very sure of yourself to take issue with the first-gen GT3 - Harris invites you to put him right



Let's de-bunk the myth first. Mechanically, the first generation 996 GT3 is almost entirely inferior to the car that replaced it, the one we shall refer to as the Gen.2 in the commonly used shorthand. This is an irrefutable fact.

It's among the most celebrated of 911s
It's among the most celebrated of 911s
How is it then, that there is a considerable body of enthusiasts who, for some reason, consider it to be the finest GT3 of them all? Knowing what we do about the specification of Porsche's hardcore 911, this has to based on something subjective. I just don't get it.

The case for the prosecution
When it was launched, the 996 GT3 was something very special, but it wasn't perfect. Track users found the brakes inadequate and the synchro rings were weak. It wasn't that quick either. I can remember struggling to extract acceleration figures from it that were better than the stock Carrera - it was barely any faster than the admittedly suspiciously fast 996 C2 launch cars.

Not quite as fast as the looks suggested
Not quite as fast as the looks suggested
Don't get me wrong, it was a lovely thing - just one which could be obviously improved. A second batch of Gen.1 cars added steel synchro rings, but by then Porsche was working on the Gen.2 car. The list of improvements was long, many of them contained in the engine bay - I won't list them here but the result was 381hp compared to 360hp. Drive them back-to-back and the difference feels far greater. The reason being that if you put the older car on a dyno it might just give you 355hp at the wheels - on a good day it'll be the full 360hp - whereas pretty much every Gen.2 car is giving 390hp. It revs more freely, it sounds better, has far more torque and the gearshift is more positive.

'Something' in the way
But apparently there's 'something' about the Gen.1 car. 'Something' is a word that tends to be used more frequently when people struggle to justify their opinions.

Track bias obvious from the interior fittings
Track bias obvious from the interior fittings
The chassis was changed quite dramatically too - and this is possibly the source of the myth - firmer springs and dampers make the later car busier on UK roads, where the original is more supple and less likely to be unsettled by lumpy surfaces or have the steering tugged by the camber of the road surface. I'll concede that point.

Being a Porsche geek I've thought long and hard about this situation, trying to understand the reasons why people prefer the first car in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. And I keep coming back to the point listed above about choppy surfaces. And two others - looks and significance.

Flat rear wing for Gen.2, and more power too
Flat rear wing for Gen.2, and more power too
'Nuggety'
I've always suspected that some people just prefer the way the older car looks and the fact that it's quite rare (103 Gen.1s sold in the UK against 246 Gen.2s) and was the first of the breed. Which is absolutely the choice of the individual. But those people also want to project a more expert image to the wider car community and therefore feel the need to underpin this opinion with something more substantial and outwardly knowledgeable.

At this point the word 'something' emerges with increased frequency from the lips of the perpetrators, and people are prone to using a touch of air steering wheel - which I have always assumed is the mime-artists accepted sign for the word 'nuggety'. In other words, bollocks.

Later GT3 is the one to go for says Harris
Later GT3 is the one to go for says Harris
So I think the Gen.2 car is miles better, if a little less supple. But what do I know?

Tell me I'm wrong.

 

 

 

 

 


PORSCHE 911 GT3 (996, MY1999)
Engine:
3,600cc flat-6
Transmission: 6-speed manual, rear-wheel drive
Power (hp): 360@7,200rpm
Torque (lb ft): 272@5,000rpm
0-62mph: 4.8 sec
Top speed: 189 mph
Weight: 1,350kg (DIN)
MPG: 22.6mpg (NEDC combined)
CO2: N/A
Price: £76,500 (new)

Author
Discussion

LongLiveTazio

Original Poster:

2,714 posts

197 months

Wednesday 25th July 2012
quotequote all
Surely you could go to Manthey anyway to sort the suspension, it's never as good as aftermarket.

Crunchy Nutter

246 posts

194 months

Wednesday 25th July 2012
quotequote all
I'm sure we'll all be interested to read the thoughts of anyone else who's driven both in anger. I have to say this TMIW surprised me. I didn't think the difference was that great but I've never driven either!

AndrewD

7,537 posts

284 months

Wednesday 25th July 2012
quotequote all
Chris I've always assumed the gen1 owners talk about how the car is built lovingly on the motorsport line at Weissach and not side by side with run of the mill cars as the gen2 was. In other words, moving the question away from the car. I tried both and bought a gen2 back in the day, so I agree with you.

Output Flange

16,798 posts

211 months

Wednesday 25th July 2012
quotequote all
LongLiveTazio said:
Surely you could go to Manthey anyway to sort the suspension, it's never as good as aftermarket.
Or even exe-tc wink

Shame they don't have paddleshift boxes, though.

sleep envy

62,260 posts

249 months

Wednesday 25th July 2012
quotequote all
Meh, they're ok I guess.

SirSamuelBuca

1,353 posts

157 months

Wednesday 25th July 2012
quotequote all
whats the difference between these and a 966 turbo? I think i would prefer a turbo looking at specs?

maybe im missing the point smile

jeremyc

23,430 posts

284 months

Wednesday 25th July 2012
quotequote all
What a strange argument: generally subsequent versions of a model are better - the manufacturer has time to improve on most aspects of the design with the benefit of time and customer feedback.

The something that Monkey can't put his finger on is the originality; the first of a breed; the raison d'etre of such a car. The Mk1 996 GT3 is such a beast:
- produced to homologate the model for GT racing.
- the last to be hand built by Porsche Motorsport rather than on the main 996 line.
- limited numbers.
- non-Americanised compromises - they are lower & meaner than the later cars.

So objectively - yes, Monkey is correct. But using this argument you'd simply buy a 997 GT3RS4.0 and be done with it, knowing that you had the best of a long model development. wink

However, subjectively and yes, romantically, you are wrong. They are bought, owned and cherished for what they are and what they represent. biggrin

don logan

3,520 posts

222 months

Wednesday 25th July 2012
quotequote all
I`m glad I read that!

ge0rge

3,053 posts

205 months

Wednesday 25th July 2012
quotequote all
Why would you want paddleshift, thought the idea behind these was raw driving experience which paddles detract from?!

sleep envy

62,260 posts

249 months

Wednesday 25th July 2012
quotequote all
jeremyc said:
- non-Americanised compromises - they are lower & meaner than the later cars.
how very dare you!

dave wilkinson

126 posts

162 months

Wednesday 25th July 2012
quotequote all
SirSamuelBuca said:
whats the difference between these and a 966 turbo? I think i would prefer a turbo looking at specs?

maybe im missing the point smile
you are totally missing the point mate! :-)

chris totally agree, there's not a big difference in price either.

jeremyc

23,430 posts

284 months

Wednesday 25th July 2012
quotequote all
p.s. nice picture of my interior. wink

Whitean3

2,184 posts

198 months

Wednesday 25th July 2012
quotequote all
AndrewD said:
Chris I've always assumed the gen1 owners talk about how the car is built lovingly on the motorsport line at Weissach and not side by side with run of the mill cars as the gen2 was. In other words, moving the question away from the car. I tried both and bought a gen2 back in the day, so I agree with you.
This was pretty much my first thought- many people favour the gen 1 because it was the last hand built 911 out of Weissach; being rarer than the gen 2 as well means that future values will be quite strong (in my opinion). Doesn't mean it is a better car. I also wonder how many people who hold this opinion have actually driven the two of them to compare. I haven't, incidentally! I'd be more interested in the 997 GT3, which I know AndrewD has also owned...

Frik

13,542 posts

243 months

Wednesday 25th July 2012
quotequote all
jeremyc said:
p.s. nice picture of my interior. wink
I thought I recognised that crevice.

Riggers

1,859 posts

178 months

Wednesday 25th July 2012
quotequote all
Frik said:
jeremyc said:
p.s. nice picture of my interior. wink
I thought I recognised that crevice.
Actually that crevice is misleading (not a sentence I expected to write today). I scanned in that transparency from the Autocar archives with my own fair hands this very morning.

So although the washed-out red makes it look like the colour of Jeremy's car it is, in fact, just that - washed-out red! smile

Tankslider

833 posts

223 months

Wednesday 25th July 2012
quotequote all
They are biting...

Nuggety = lower and meaner. Got it.

mat205125

17,790 posts

213 months

Wednesday 25th July 2012
quotequote all
Who cares! The 996 GT3 remains my ultimate realistic dream car ... A 996 GT3 RS with blue wheels is utterly wonderful IMO

don logan

3,520 posts

222 months

Wednesday 25th July 2012
quotequote all
ge0rge said:
Why would you want paddleshift, thought the idea behind these was raw driving experience which paddles detract from?!
+1

The idea is to be "involved", I will probably end up with a 996 GT3 at some point, it wouldn`t be on my list if it had paddles!

Output Flange

16,798 posts

211 months

Wednesday 25th July 2012
quotequote all
don logan said:
ge0rge said:
Why would you want paddleshift, thought the idea behind these was raw driving experience which paddles detract from?!
+1

The idea is to be "involved", I will probably end up with a 996 GT3 at some point, it wouldn`t be on my list if it had paddles!
That was tongue-in-cheek (PDK owner).

don logan

3,520 posts

222 months

Wednesday 25th July 2012
quotequote all
Output Flange said:
don logan said:
ge0rge said:
Why would you want paddleshift, thought the idea behind these was raw driving experience which paddles detract from?!
+1

The idea is to be "involved", I will probably end up with a 996 GT3 at some point, it wouldn`t be on my list if it had paddles!
That was tongue-in-cheek (PDK owner).
You are a very naughty little Output Flange then aren`t you!!!!!!!!!!!!!