HID conversion kits?

Author
Discussion

Willhook

Original Poster:

112 posts

141 months

Thursday 26th July 2012
quotequote all
Hi all, after blowing 4 headlight bulbs in 2 weeks then I've bought a HID converion kit off the unmentionable auction site. Has anyone got any experience with these or any tips for fitting and anything to watch out for ect...


Will

jjones

4,422 posts

192 months

Thursday 26th July 2012
quotequote all
yeah, mot time..

calibrax

4,788 posts

210 months

Thursday 26th July 2012
quotequote all
jjones said:
yeah, mot time..
...*sigh* this again...

They will pass an MOT provided the beam pattern and alignment is ok.

Cyder

7,045 posts

219 months

Thursday 26th July 2012
quotequote all
calibrax said:
jjones said:
yeah, mot time..
...*sigh* this again...

They will pass an MOT provided the beam pattern and alignment is ok.
....*sigh* he has a point though, shamelessly stolen from elsewhere.

The latest directive from VOSA includes their view that unless strict criteria are met, after-market HID kits may not be legal.

There is some confusion regarding the change in legislation towards HID kits. Although we are still trying to determine the full details here is some text that may help! Many thanks to the MX3 Forum guys who bought it to my attention

Here is the relevant text -

"In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps. The reason for this is that the existing lens and reflector are designed around a Halogen filament bulb, working to very precise tolerances. If one places a HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern.
The following is the legal rationale:

The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.
Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.

However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).

For the after market, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "HID is banned in the after market" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require HID in the after market to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.

Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:

1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.
2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).
3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.

In practice this means:

1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.
2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.
3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.
Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.
In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above."

If you are found to be using lights which don't comply, in all likelihood, you may be reported to the Procurator Fiscal and may end up with a fine.

The above seems to be a precursor to the new MOT criteria slated to come into existance on New Years Eve 2011 (for 2012), this is from the MOT Testers VOSA bullitin explaining the new EU MOT regulations which were ratified this year, and includes amongst other things, the testing of wiring harnesses, the testing for illegal HID kits and, wait for it, chipped ECU's, whatever that means The article is quite long, but here is a small extract .....

"As far as changes to the test content are concerned, VOSA has already been analysing the requirements of the new Directive and working out how to implement them. We started this earlier in the year by talking with representatives of the MOT trade at our regular Trade User Group and VTS Council meetings. Both VOSA and the Department for Transport (DfT) are keen to ensure that any changes to the test are introduced in as practical a way as possible, keeping the burden on the trade to a minimum and ideally keeping the changes cost neutral.

In many cases, the changes shouldn’t necessarily lead to an increase in average test times. A good example is the malfunction indicator lamps on the dashboard that indicate defective electronic power steering, electronic stability control and secondary restraint systems. Testers already check the dashboard for other lamps, so no extra time would be required for this addition to the test.

Electrical wiring and batteries are now included in the test’s scope, but testers already check the vehicle structure where wiring is secured – often along the same routes as other testable items, such as brake pipes in the engine compartment. So again, this doesn’t look like an additional burden on the tester. In the pre-computerisation days, testers often (wrongly) failed vehicles for insecure batteries, so they must have been looking at them then! Now, it means that when we implement the new Directive, vehicles can legitimately fail for battery insecurity, for no extra tester effort.Other items – such as headlamp bulb and unit incompatibility, headlamp levelling devices and illegal engine ‘chipping’ – will need further thought before we can get a workable solution for MOT stations."

okie592

2,711 posts

166 months

Thursday 26th July 2012
quotequote all
they are brilliant so long as you have a decent bulb colour no higher than 8000k they work best in a projector housing but are alright in a normal headlight if they are well aligned, ive ran them in my cars for about 3 years no problems come MOT time, never been flashed and the police never mentioned them

when people go on about mot it makes me laugh, if it fails, its a 5 min job to stick a halogen bulb back in, but mines done 3 with a very good mot station

eldar

21,614 posts

195 months

Thursday 26th July 2012
quotequote all
Willhook said:
Hi all, after blowing 4 headlight bulbs in 2 weeks then I've bought a HID converion kit off the unmentionable auction site. Has anyone got any experience with these or any tips for fitting and anything to watch out for ect...


Will
Depends on the car. Anything modern has a good chance of deciding 35w headlamps rather than 55w ones means faulty or failed bulbs and confusing the computers.

calibrax

4,788 posts

210 months

Thursday 26th July 2012
quotequote all
Cyder said:
"In the Department's view it is not legal
In their view. So it hasn't actually been tested in a court. But in any case, I didn't say they were legal, I just said that they will pass an MOT.

And the MOT rule change this year says that self-levelling and washers must work WHERE FITTED. And if not fitted, then the car can't be failed on them.

parapaul

2,828 posts

197 months

Friday 27th July 2012
quotequote all
eldar said:
Willhook said:
Hi all, after blowing 4 headlight bulbs in 2 weeks then I've bought a HID converion kit off the unmentionable auction site. Has anyone got any experience with these or any tips for fitting and anything to watch out for ect...


Will
Depends on the car. Anything modern has a good chance of deciding 35w headlamps rather than 55w ones means faulty or failed bulbs and confusing the computers.
Firstly what car? If it has a CANBUS network you'll likely need a kit with error cancellers or you'll suffer flickering bulbs and/or bulb warning lights. If it's an old car you're lucky, you'll probably get away with any cheap kit you can find.

Colour is important - OEM xenon lights are almost all 4300K, which gives the crisp, white light you need. 6000K is noticeably bluer, looks obviously aftermarket. Anything higher than 6000K is well into boy racer territory, and you'll not only compromise on light output but you'll look like a tit too.

If you're going to put them in reflector headlamps, for god's sake please get H7R bulbs (assuming the originals are H7) to minimise the glare to other road users.

You'll get full instructions in the kit, but be prepared to drill a 25mm hole in the back of your headlamp cover to run the HID wiring through, and also to find somewhere to mount the ballasts and ignitors which may or may not be a straightforward job.

And once they're fitted, please, please, PLEASE go to your nearest MOT test centre and have them aligned properly.

FoundOnRoadside

436 posts

143 months

Friday 27th July 2012
quotequote all
calibrax said:
...*sigh* this again...

They will pass an MOT provided the beam pattern and alignment is ok.
They would have until January past. Now they're an instant fail.

Heck, they're failing factory fit HIDs in Evos here, as they don't have washers...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

ViperDave

5,520 posts

252 months

Friday 27th July 2012
quotequote all
FoundOnRoadside said:
calibrax said:
...*sigh* this again...

They will pass an MOT provided the beam pattern and alignment is ok.
They would have until January past. Now they're an instant fail.

Heck, they're failing factory fit HIDs in Evos here, as they don't have washers...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Here being northern Ireland where they have the original MOT manual wording where Washers and self level must be fitted. Not on the mainland where it was re-worded as calibrax said, so whilst aftermarket HID may not meet construction and use and therefore be illegal they wont fail an MOT if aligned correctly

FoundOnRoadside

436 posts

143 months

Friday 27th July 2012
quotequote all
I passed an MOT here a few years with a HID kit fitted. Now they wouldn't pass.

I suspect over there, the same rules will apply - they'll figure out the wording to take people with HIDs off the road if they're not factory fitted.

I know from my own experiences, that even if the HID kit is fitted properly, and aligned spot on, it'll still blind certain drivers. It'll blind folks as you crest a hill, and it blinds drivers of higher vehicles.

80sboy

452 posts

156 months

Friday 27th July 2012
quotequote all
okie592 said:
they are brilliant so long as you have a decent bulb colour no higher than 8000k they work best in a projector housing but are alright in a normal headlight if they are well aligned, ive ran them in my cars for about 3 years no problems come MOT time, never been flashed and the police never mentioned them

when people go on about mot it makes me laugh, if it fails, its a 5 min job to stick a halogen bulb back in, but mines done 3 with a very good mot station
Oh, they're all right in regular (non-projector) headlights as long they are aligned okay... are they??

No they are not buddy...

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Friday 27th July 2012
quotequote all
80sboy said:
Oh, they're all right in regular (non-projector) headlights as long they are aligned okay... are they??

No they are not buddy...
Plenty of OEM HIDs are in reflector enclosures...

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Friday 27th July 2012
quotequote all
okie592 said:
they are brilliant so long as you have a decent bulb colour no higher than 8000k
4300k IMO. 8000k is for idiots and wkers and is half the reason aftermarket HIDs cause so much glare.

okie592

2,711 posts

166 months

Friday 27th July 2012
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
4300k IMO. 8000k is for idiots and wkers and is half the reason aftermarket HIDs cause so much glare.
i went from 4300k to 6000k which is alot better, i belive the new e class and the audi range use 6k or maybe even 8k judging how bright they are

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Friday 27th July 2012
quotequote all
okie592 said:
i went from 4300k to 6000k which is alot better, i belive the new e class and the audi range use 6k or maybe even 8k judging how bright they are
Why would higher temperature bulbs be brighter? Usually they're dimmer in the visible spectrum, aren't they? confused

80sboy

452 posts

156 months

Friday 27th July 2012
quotequote all
kambites said:
80sboy said:
Oh, they're all right in regular (non-projector) headlights as long they are aligned okay... are they??

No they are not buddy...
Plenty of OEM HIDs are in reflector enclosures...
We're talking after-market here though right? Therefore he was suggesting after-market HIDs are okay in reflector housing "if aligned okay".

They never are/can't be aligned okay because most HID bulbs are designed for projector units which are also self levelling. Plus they shouldn't be retrofitted to reflector housing that was designed for halogen bulbs and beam patterns.

After-market HIDs usually find their way into some 20 year old Corsa/Civic because "it looks cool". These scatter light in all directions, blinds all oncoming traffic just pisses everyone off. I've also found it really bloody dangerous in some situations.

Out of necessity I did fit HIDs to my Z4 which had projector housing. I ensured I used the correct wattage and colour temperature, that the beam pattern was acceptable and that they were levelled correctly. This was tested and passed MOT without a problem.

It can be done in projector housing, but don't try it in reflector housing.

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Friday 27th July 2012
quotequote all
okie592 said:
300bhp/ton said:
4300k IMO. 8000k is for idiots and wkers and is half the reason aftermarket HIDs cause so much glare.
i went from 4300k to 6000k which is alot better, i belive the new e class and the audi range use 6k or maybe even 8k judging how bright they are
Higher K does not mean brighter, in fact the lumen rating drops.

6000k is about tops, although these are highly blue and reduce colour definition. I didn't know any OEM used them, they did all used to be 4100k which is about right for daylight white light and will give the best contrast and colours.

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Friday 27th July 2012
quotequote all
80sboy said:
Plus they shouldn't be retrofitted to reflector housing that was designed for halogen bulbs and beam patterns.
Strictly speaking they shouldn't be retrofitted to anything unless they're OEM upgrades - HIDs are illegal unless the casing carries full EU type approval for use with HID bulbs. In practice there is leniency if they're fitted properly but the definition of "properly" isn't clearly defined.

Overall, I'm not convinced that reflector vs projector or OEM vs aftermarket makes a massive difference - the damned things are all blinding if you drive a low car. hehe

80sboy

452 posts

156 months

Friday 27th July 2012
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
okie592 said:
300bhp/ton said:
4300k IMO. 8000k is for idiots and wkers and is half the reason aftermarket HIDs cause so much glare.
i went from 4300k to 6000k which is alot better, i belive the new e class and the audi range use 6k or maybe even 8k judging how bright they are
Higher K does not mean brighter, in fact the lumen rating drops.

6000k is about tops, although these are highly blue and reduce colour definition. I didn't know any OEM used them, they did all used to be 4100k which is about right for daylight white light and will give the best contrast and colours.
It's about producing a whiter, more natural light isn't it? A whiter light is easier on the eyes and enables you to see ahead more easily.

Excessively blue lights are just for show and actually reduce visibility.

5000k is the best, or so I've been told.