RE: Maserati's big gamble
Friday 16th November 2012
Reading PistonHeader Chad speed's backdated story of his heroic ongoing nine-year restoration of a 1969 Maserati Ghibli made us think: has Maserati raised expectations impossibly high by naming its new 'baby' saloon after this thunderous late 60s supercar?
Ghibli II powered by a twin turbo V6There are good reasons we could be praising the Ghibli next year. The name came via the muscular coupe from the 1990s based on the Biturbo that at one point had a two-litre, twin-turbo V6 making 330hp. That sounds too bonkers to be repeated, but the new car might just get a twin-turbo V6 developed by big bro Ferrari, if Italian media reports from earlier this year are to be believed.
Ghibli likely to resemble shrunken QuattroporteHopefully the designers will be slightly bolder on the styling than they were with the new Quattroporte.
Maserati's big gamble
Ghibli 'baby' saloon is part of an audacious eight-fold sales increase plan, but at what price heritage?
The new Ghibli will be revealed in the first half of next year with styling expected to resemble a boiled down Quattroporte. In its sights, the BMW 5 Series crowd.
It's part of a very bold plan by the Fiat-owned firm to sell more than 50,000 cars a year by 2015. A tall order given it shifted just 6,159 last year, but one it could just manage with the more accessible Ghibli and also the Levante SUV due in 2014.
Ghibli II powered by a twin turbo V6
Of course that's not going to dent BMW sales on its own, so the word is that a V6 diesel from Italian specialists VM Motori (the same guys that started out with a boat engine in a Jaguar) will also be available.
The potential downside of this car is that it's expected to share a platform with the Chrysler 300C, thanks to the Fiat link-up. If you think Maserati should be more about the muscle than finesse, that might be borderline acceptable, especially when you consider the Dodge Charger comes off that platform. And it won't be as hard to swallow as the 1975 Quattroporte II saloon, which was based on the front-wheel-drive Citroen SM.
Ghibli likely to resemble shrunken Quattroporte
As for the original Ghibli, you'll be able buy the new one more cheaply than the sole classic in our classifieds, a 4.9 SS for £84,000. Makes Chad speed's "sub £10K" purchase price of his 4.7 look like sound maths, and not just of the man variety.
Discussion
Leaving aside the platform's potential use in future Chryslers, it's a thing that makes perfect sense - a nice V6 entry level Maserati platform shared with a top-of-the-range Alfa Romeo, in order to try and get a slice of the increasingly large "bog-standard premium" section of the market. Yeah, its up against a lot with the likes of the 5-series, E-class and the XF - but its a huge sector and the whole Fiat group currently has nothing in that area.
The only problem with this brand layout is it leaves them with nowhere to put Lancia.
From what I remember from previous articles on the subject, its not going to be based on the current 300C but it'll be a new platform that will be used on a new Alfa and a Lancia/Chrysler?
The only problem with this brand layout is it leaves them with nowhere to put Lancia.
From what I remember from previous articles on the subject, its not going to be based on the current 300C but it'll be a new platform that will be used on a new Alfa and a Lancia/Chrysler?
Edited by Mr Pockets on Friday 16th November 14:47
I guess I always hoped that the new Alfa 166 would be the next car from Fiat Group to fit into this sector (regardless of platform origin) but understand that Maserati will give Fiat the price premium they need and likely sell more units than the Alfa equivalent might.
Sad to think that a cheaper Alfa 166 replacement probably wouldnt sell as many vs a more niche sports car manufacturer. I think that just shows how wrong the Alfa model is at the moment!.
Sad to think that a cheaper Alfa 166 replacement probably wouldnt sell as many vs a more niche sports car manufacturer. I think that just shows how wrong the Alfa model is at the moment!.
V6Alfisti said:
I guess I always hoped that the new Alfa 166 would be the next car from Fiat Group to fit into this sector (regardless of platform origin) but understand that Maserati will give Fiat the price premium they need and likely sell more units than the Alfa equivalent might.
Sad to think that a cheaper Alfa 166 replacement probably wouldnt sell as many vs a more niche sports car manufacturer. I think that just shows how wrong the Alfa model is at the moment!.
Well, aren't they still going ahead with the Alfa version & simply adding on a third premium++ edition to give them a VW-esque Maserati/Alfa/Lancia-Chrysler(eeewww) setup like Audi/VW/SEAT ? I'd assume the idea would be to lead with the Maserati edition so that Joe 520d goes "hey, this new Alfa, its basically a Maserati!" rather than "oh, this Maserati is just an Alfa Romeo".Sad to think that a cheaper Alfa 166 replacement probably wouldnt sell as many vs a more niche sports car manufacturer. I think that just shows how wrong the Alfa model is at the moment!.
Not sure what the original article is trying to say, exactly. That it is a gamble to use the Ghibli name? Not sure why. Most people won't remember the original, frankly. And it's already been exhumed once before, as the article acknowledges.
Or is the issue that the new car will be built on a Chrysler platform, and will therefore be rubbish? That seems a bit premature, too. If the car is nothing more than a rebodied 300C, then I there is probably little hope for it. But I doubt that Maserati is quite that stupid. The fact that the platform is shared with a Chrysler doesn't mean the car has to be awful - it could be, but that will be down to more than just the platform.
As far as diesel is concerned, that seems inevitable. The list of manufacturers (or probably more accurately, brands) not using diesels gets shorter by the month (it seems). If you look at the price of a Maserati,it is competing with Jaguar and Porsche (and potentially BMW, Audi and Mercedes if it starts making a smaller car like the Ghibli) and not with the brands which don't do diesel (Ferrari, Lambo, Aston).
I do wish Maserati could carry on making cars that share componentry with Ferraris rather than Chryslers, cost a fraction of those Ferraris, and are even more exclusive - but just reading the sentence makes you understand why it can't and won't happen. It is clearly not economically sustainable.
The real issue is can Maserati make a decent car from the components it will have to work with? I truly hope so. If they do, I don't give a monkeys what they call it (although, say, Adam, would be a bloody stupid idea..).
Or is the issue that the new car will be built on a Chrysler platform, and will therefore be rubbish? That seems a bit premature, too. If the car is nothing more than a rebodied 300C, then I there is probably little hope for it. But I doubt that Maserati is quite that stupid. The fact that the platform is shared with a Chrysler doesn't mean the car has to be awful - it could be, but that will be down to more than just the platform.
As far as diesel is concerned, that seems inevitable. The list of manufacturers (or probably more accurately, brands) not using diesels gets shorter by the month (it seems). If you look at the price of a Maserati,it is competing with Jaguar and Porsche (and potentially BMW, Audi and Mercedes if it starts making a smaller car like the Ghibli) and not with the brands which don't do diesel (Ferrari, Lambo, Aston).
I do wish Maserati could carry on making cars that share componentry with Ferraris rather than Chryslers, cost a fraction of those Ferraris, and are even more exclusive - but just reading the sentence makes you understand why it can't and won't happen. It is clearly not economically sustainable.
The real issue is can Maserati make a decent car from the components it will have to work with? I truly hope so. If they do, I don't give a monkeys what they call it (although, say, Adam, would be a bloody stupid idea..).
A very pretty car, but... Back in the day, while leaving a cinema with my then-GF I bumped into the brother of my ex-GF. He was/is an extremely patronising weapons'-grade cock.
We talked/walked along the street, then he slowed and superciliously said, "This is 'me'," pointing at a box-fresh Ghibli II, which was parked nose-to-nose next to my
We climbed into our cars, he turned the Maser's key and it didn't fire, then he tried again, and again, and again... Mercifully, and unusually, mine fired first-time. I gave him a nonchalant wave as we drove off, leaving him futilely cranking his Ghibli. Smug, moi? Yep!
And to add irony to his injury, my start-first-time
Edited by NGK210 on Friday 16th November 15:36
The 300C Platform is a recycled old W-210 E-Class Chassis from 95.
For Chrysler and for American Standard ok,but for maserati!?
This means the new Bread and Butter Ghibli use over 17 Years
old Mercedes Technology as Base for his new Car.
Sorry for Cars in these Price Range from a legendary Company
is these a no go.
For Chrysler and for American Standard ok,but for maserati!?
This means the new Bread and Butter Ghibli use over 17 Years
old Mercedes Technology as Base for his new Car.
Sorry for Cars in these Price Range from a legendary Company
is these a no go.
flashygee said:
The 300C Platform is a recycled old W-210 E-Class Chassis from 95.
For Chrysler and for American Standard ok,but for maserati!?
This means the new Bread and Butter Ghibli use over 17 Years
old Mercedes Technology as Base for his new Car.
Sorry for Cars in these Price Range from a legendary Company
is these a no go.
They're using the same platform that will underpin the NEW 300, not the current one.For Chrysler and for American Standard ok,but for maserati!?
This means the new Bread and Butter Ghibli use over 17 Years
old Mercedes Technology as Base for his new Car.
Sorry for Cars in these Price Range from a legendary Company
is these a no go.
I just hope it looks nicer than the new Quattroporte, I'm not sure what I was expecting but I can't remember being more disappointed with a new car release.
Maserati heritage gets hurt? What do you mean gamble?
You mean like the Biturbo?
Or worse, the Chrysler TC Maserati?
They made or 7000 of these K-car based things, most powered by the Dodge 2.2 four. Ambassadors for Maserati in America.
And yet Maserati has risen again and its success is based on two cracking cars that look terrific and individualistic, with great performance and spectacular engines via Ferrari. Frankly the biggest gamble is making the upcoming Quattroporte look too generic to try and get bigger sales. That's a mistake.
Maserati is supposed to be exclusive, exotic, exciting, cool. High volume production is the antithesis of all those core values.
You mean like the Biturbo?
Or worse, the Chrysler TC Maserati?
They made or 7000 of these K-car based things, most powered by the Dodge 2.2 four. Ambassadors for Maserati in America.
And yet Maserati has risen again and its success is based on two cracking cars that look terrific and individualistic, with great performance and spectacular engines via Ferrari. Frankly the biggest gamble is making the upcoming Quattroporte look too generic to try and get bigger sales. That's a mistake.
Maserati is supposed to be exclusive, exotic, exciting, cool. High volume production is the antithesis of all those core values.
The Chad speed Ghibli was indeed sub £10K but its 10 years into a resto and still to turn a wheel 
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
How amazing would the new Ghibli be if designed with the ethos of the original; big enough for four doors but it only had two, big enough for four seats but it only had two. Indulgent, stylish, opulent and fast we need more cars like this but I fear the new offering may fall short. Come on Maserati when you going to push the boat out, in the 60's Maserati were rarely the fastest supercars but they were nearly always the most stylish.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
How amazing would the new Ghibli be if designed with the ethos of the original; big enough for four doors but it only had two, big enough for four seats but it only had two. Indulgent, stylish, opulent and fast we need more cars like this but I fear the new offering may fall short. Come on Maserati when you going to push the boat out, in the 60's Maserati were rarely the fastest supercars but they were nearly always the most stylish.
Mr Pockets said:
Well, aren't they still going ahead with the Alfa version & simply adding on a third premium++ edition to give them a VW-esque Maserati/Alfa/Lancia-Chrysler(eeewww) setup like Audi/VW/SEAT ? I'd assume the idea would be to lead with the Maserati edition so that Joe 520d goes "hey, this new Alfa, its basically a Maserati!" rather than "oh, this Maserati is just an Alfa Romeo".
They have been talking about a 169 for far too long, I think the last 166 came off the line in 04/05. I think the Giulia (159 replacement) has been pushed back to 2014 and I can't see the 169 coming anytime soon. 
The Ghibli II and the BiTurbo which preceded it belong to the dark era of Maserati. It followed the Citroen years when Maseratis were blighted with Citroen hydraulics put together by Italian engineers - who thought THAT would be a good idea? Then after gorgeous designs like the Bora and Merak, along comes de Tomaso with a car that looked like a badly sketched BMW, with powerful engines and possibly the worst build quality of any car in the history of Italian manufacturing.
Things could only be better for the successor to the name.
Things could only be better for the successor to the name.
SprintSpeciale said:
Not sure what the original article is trying to say, exactly. That it is a gamble to use the Ghibli name? Not sure why. Most people won't remember the original, frankly. And it's already been exhumed once before, as the article acknowledges.
Or is the issue that the new car will be built on a Chrysler platform, and will therefore be rubbish? That seems a bit premature, too. If the car is nothing more than a rebodied 300C, then I there is probably little hope for it. But I doubt that Maserati is quite that stupid. The fact that the platform is shared with a Chrysler doesn't mean the car has to be awful - it could be, but that will be down to more than just the platform.
As far as diesel is concerned, that seems inevitable. The list of manufacturers (or probably more accurately, brands) not using diesels gets shorter by the month (it seems). If you look at the price of a Maserati,it is competing with Jaguar and Porsche (and potentially BMW, Audi and Mercedes if it starts making a smaller car like the Ghibli) and not with the brands which don't do diesel (Ferrari, Lambo, Aston).
I do wish Maserati could carry on making cars that share componentry with Ferraris rather than Chryslers, cost a fraction of those Ferraris, and are even more exclusive - but just reading the sentence makes you understand why it can't and won't happen. It is clearly not economically sustainable.
The real issue is can Maserati make a decent car from the components it will have to work with? I truly hope so. If they do, I don't give a monkeys what they call it (although, say, Adam, would be a bloody stupid idea..).
Captures it spot on for me!!Or is the issue that the new car will be built on a Chrysler platform, and will therefore be rubbish? That seems a bit premature, too. If the car is nothing more than a rebodied 300C, then I there is probably little hope for it. But I doubt that Maserati is quite that stupid. The fact that the platform is shared with a Chrysler doesn't mean the car has to be awful - it could be, but that will be down to more than just the platform.
As far as diesel is concerned, that seems inevitable. The list of manufacturers (or probably more accurately, brands) not using diesels gets shorter by the month (it seems). If you look at the price of a Maserati,it is competing with Jaguar and Porsche (and potentially BMW, Audi and Mercedes if it starts making a smaller car like the Ghibli) and not with the brands which don't do diesel (Ferrari, Lambo, Aston).
I do wish Maserati could carry on making cars that share componentry with Ferraris rather than Chryslers, cost a fraction of those Ferraris, and are even more exclusive - but just reading the sentence makes you understand why it can't and won't happen. It is clearly not economically sustainable.
The real issue is can Maserati make a decent car from the components it will have to work with? I truly hope so. If they do, I don't give a monkeys what they call it (although, say, Adam, would be a bloody stupid idea..).
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