Monday 18th February 2013

Jaguar F-Type versus Porsche 911

Or should that be versus Boxster? PH crunches the numbers to compare

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Porsche 911 or Boxster: which IS the Jaguar F-Type up against? It's a discussion that's kept forums busy for months. As the best-selling sports car brand, Porsche clearly defines the sector, so others should fit around it. The F-Type doesn't.

Jaguar says no to existing marketing pigeonholes

Jaguar is unrepentant. The global sports car sector is so small, you don't need to build cars that directly rival one another. Indeed, do that and you're arguably on a hiding to nothing. Why build to another brand's price when doing your own thing is more genuine?

Who are they kidding. They're gunning for the 911, pure and simple. It's been benchmarked against the 911. The 911 continually comes up in conversation with Jaguar engineers. The 911 defines the Porsche brand and Jaguar wants the F-Type to do the same for it.

Power stats hint what it is. The range starts with 340hp; a 911 opens with 350hp. A Boxster starts at 275hp and topping out at 315hp. It ain't a Boxster. Was never going to be. Jaguar has designed it to be a 911, without the price tag, just like the original E-Type was a bargain alternative to the 911. Can't remember any tears about Jaguar not building a 356 rival then.

Given all this, does it stack up? We'll infuriate you for making a call withouthaving driven it, but first evidence (and the obvious proviso is that the truth IS in the driving) suggests so.

911 cabrio is obvious rival but starts at £82K

It certainly has the visual presence to rival a 911. Reserve judgment on the looks until you see it, particularly the rear end which appears awkward in images but a lot more dramatic and cohesive in real life. Mk1 Boxsters are 10 a penny, relatively, but a 997 still causes a stir. Just as the F-Type will.

Size guarantees it. The Boxster is small, 4,374mm long. The F-Type is 4,470mm long, 21mm shorter than a 911. It has a 2,622mm wheelbase: the Boxster's is 2,475mm, the 911's a shorter 2,450mm. It's 1,923mm wide, 122mm wider than a Boxster, 115mm wider than a 911.

It feels like a 911-level car with purpose - and the fact it's 21mm shorter than a 911 means it also feels unique. Just as you sit low and compactly in a 911, rearward mass neutralized but still possible to sense, the F-Type's impression of being sat way back in the chassis, nice and low, nose stretching ahead and weight contained within it, is also special. An XK with all the fat cut off but still with full-fat engines. Simply, a higher-level, more potent package than a Boxster.

Coming soon to a Porsche mirror near you

Cabin vibes count. A Boxster, it feels like a decontented 911. The F-Type feels a cut above the 911, never mind the Boxster. Don't be surprised to see model year upgrades in a 911 interior's perceived quality. Also don't be surprised if Jaguar solves its own internal headache - the positioning of the XK - by giving it more power, more luxury, more decadence. Turning it into a genuine DB9 rival, with six-figure price tag to match? Well, why not? If F-Type does the business, it's the logical next move.

The XK never sparred with the 911. The F-Type is eyeballing it. A 350hp Carrera Cabrio PDK costs £84,114, a 340hp F-Type sells for £58,500 (how much cheaper will the F-Type coupe be?). Jaguar charges you £79,950 for a 495hp F-Type. Porsche charges £94,150 for a 400hp PDK 911 Carrera S soft-top; same top speed, and the Jag's quicker to 62mph.

Still any doubt about what's in the Jag's crosshairs?

[goron59]

I'm going to one of the F-Type launch events on Wednesday. Should be interesting to see it in the metal. I just hope they have nice nibbles and fiz to detract from the inevitable marketing.

[kambites]

For me, the rear seats are a fundamental part of the 911's reason for existence, so this will never be a true 911 competitor.

[StottyZr]

Porsche Cayman S £48,783
0-60 - 5
0-100 - 10.8
Top Speed 175
Weight 1,395

Jaguar F Type 3.0V6 £58,500
0-60 - 5.1
Top Speed - 161
Weight 1,597

Just wondering, why were the Boxster and 911 mentioned but not the Cayman?

I also noticed no mention of weight, which is where Jaguars disadvantage lies.

[Pesty]

kambites said:

For me, the rear seats are a fundamental part of the 911's reason for existence, so this will never be a true 911 competitor.

Yep


Id still take the f type though

[kambites]

StottyZr said:

Just wondering, why were the Boxster and 911 mentioned but not the Cayman?

Presumably because the jag is soft-top only for the moment.

[StottyZr]

kambites said:

StottyZr said:

Just wondering, why were the Boxster and 911 mentioned but not the Cayman?

Presumably because the jag is soft-top only for the moment.

thats a good point.

I'd expect the F-Type Coupe to be cheaper and ligher than the cabriolet then, or it won't compete with the Cayman!

[nickfrog]

Quite a bizarre article:

- Boxster 10 a penny ? They've never outsold the 911 AFAIK.

- Power ? Isn't power to weight ratio more relevant ?

- Practicality. The Jaguar is bigger / heavier but only has 2 seats. I wonder if its boot is much bigger than the 2 Boxster boots put together.

Edited by nickfrog on Monday 18th February 10:28

[whoami]

kambites said:

For me, the rear seats are a fundamental part of the 911's reason for existence, so this will never be a true 911 competitor.

Why would you care about rear seats on a 911?

They are pretty much unusable.

What about a GT3?

[tomv1to]

It looks a bit like a Nissan GTR from some angles.

How long until we see a hard top F type?

Hopefully a long enough time for me to save enough to be able to afford a second hand one.

Edited by tomv1to on Monday 18th February 10:28

[rajkohli81]

I don't see how Jaguar ever really intended to pitch this car against Porsche. It seems to be firmly aimed at the GT end of the Sportscar market.

Big front engined, rear wheel drive, auto vs more focussed rear/mid-engined, lighter Porsches doesnt strike me as a true comparison.

I think the F-Type is deliberately priced so as not to infer comparison to the 991/Boxster and may be creating a bit of a niche for itself as a cut price AMV8 Roadster.

I expect to see a lot of botox-filled 90210ers swapping their droptop Porsches for this more comfort oriented and opulent option.

[ZesPak]

nickfrog said:

Quite a bizarre article:

- Boxster 10 a penny ? They've never outsold the 911 AFAIK.

- Power ? Isn't power to weight ration more relevant ?

- Practicality. The Jaguar is bigger / heavier but only has 2 seats. I wonder if its boot is much bigger than the 2 Boxster boots put together.

1. Can't find any hard numbers, but in North America (the market the Boxster is probably least aimed at), boxster sales are about 20% lower than 911 sales, so I can imagine them being close/higher in Europe, but indeed, your comment still stands.
2. Power/weight would indeed be more relevant, but the top end 495hp Jag is still 15k below porsche's 400hp rival, it's safe to say that the power/weight will be at least on the same terms. Comparing to the boxster, the Jag has it seriously outgunned in numbers tbh (however that's not the point of the Boxster, I know, but numbers are all we have right now)
3. I've seen the boot, it's no contest, you can fit a couple of travell bags in there. You can't even fit one in the boxster. The 911 is another story, the backseat can't take adults (not if they have legs), but they sure can take some luggage for a trip .

I was a big fan of the F-type in initial pictures, loved it in the flesh, though, in these pictures it reminds me of a GT-R. It shouldn't. The XK reminded me of an Aston, which is always good.

Disclaimer: fwiw, I'm a porsche fan, love the F-type and love the GT-R.

[enroz]

Slightly off topic, but this morning i was overtaken by a Carrera 4 S & then 5 minutes laters an R8 (sorry not the Jag). Although I enjoyed the 911's looks, they were put to shame by the Audi's lines.

Now, just by the photos of the Jaguar, we cannot make too much judgement on looks, but on that basis alone, the Jag is streets ahead of the slightly frumpy Porsche.

However, looks aren't everything..so the comparison tests

[nickfrog]

I just checked and the Jaguar's boot is 200L whereas the total boot size of the Boxster is 280L (front+rear). Which would help the Boxster being the GT out of the two from that point of view.

[ZesPak]

enroz said:

Slightly off topic, but this morning i was overtaken by a Carrera 4 S & then 5 minutes laters an R8 (sorry not the Jag). Although I enjoyed the 911's looks, they were put to shame by the Audi's lines.

Now, just by the photos of the Jaguar, we cannot make too much judgement on looks, but on that basis alone, the Jag is streets ahead of the slightly frumpy Porsche.

However, looks aren't everything..so the comparison tests

Luckily, looks aren't everything, otherwise the 8C would be the best car in the world, the three-door A5 would be the best Audi by a country mile and the 159 would beat the 3-series back up the ugly mountain it fell down from.

[CliveM]

The USPs of a 911
It's a plus two
It's narrow enough to make it more useable day to day
A comparative lack of weight helps acceleration and agility

F Type seems to be erring towards Mercedes rather than Porsche.

PS - Love the looks of the F Type though and wish it well. The AMV8 seemed to do ok so there's hope!

Edited by CliveM on Monday 18th February 10:45

[ZesPak]

Bedazzled said:

What an ugly duckling, it looks like a Nissan and the exhaust note shouts new money like a R8; and they haven't even dared show the rear view in the article!

[splitpin]

An article true and loyal to the tradition of UK Jounalism (when things are real slow) .............

Something About Absolutely Nothing

[virgilio]

Quote from article: "Jaguar has designed it to be a 911, without the price tag, just like the original E-Type was a bargain alternative to the 911. Can't remember any tears about Jaguar not building a 356 rival then."

Mmh, methinks somebody needs to go back to (car) history books...
E-Type was around way before the 911 (remember all the hype for its 50th two years ago?).
356 was the 911's predecessor, not a smaller model.

F-Type is just obese and pointless.

[nickfrog]

I find there's a bit of Fiat in it (in a good way):

[mph]

splitpin said:

An article true and loyal to the tradition of UK Jounalism (when things are real slow) .............

Something About Absolutely Nothing

Absolutely spot-on.

Motoring journalism seems to be going the same way as football journalism. Ask the same stupid questions repeatedly and try to create situations when there aren't any.