RE: Chris Harris video: Bentley Conti vs Audi S4
Wednesday 13th March 2013
Enjoyable though it may be orchestrating the multiple brands of the VW group, ensuring that each has its own space in the market and a distinct personality must be a constant battle.
Relations of sorts but just how close?I drove one a few weeks back, a few hours later I drove a new Audi S4 and was struck by how many similarities there were. Not direct comparative stuff, but subtler genetic traits that made me wonder if there it might be something worth exploring.
Chris Harris video: Bentley Conti vs Audi S4
What have these cars got in common? Let Chris explain...
The new Bentley Continental Speed is in many ways an outright attack on Newton's laws. It weighs 2.4 tonnes, has 625hp and yet somehow manages to go around corners extremely fast. It's probably the best fast GT car in the correct sense of the designation.
Relations of sorts but just how close?
Two VW products that sit on opposite sides of the The Empire - how much do they have in common? And if so, is that a positive or a negative situation?
All rather serious, but hopefully it'll calm those who say we destroy too many tyres.
Discussion
Very interesting and thought provoking.
It would, to me, seem inevitable that cars like these would have similar characteristics coming from the same group.
But character? No. Not either. Drive the last of the "proper" Bentleys and you would feel great character.
But many people don't want or think about character in a car. So for £40K they buy the Audi and those who want to be a deal more flash/bling etc buy the Bentley. The Bentely is safe, un dramatic, supercar ownership.
It would, to me, seem inevitable that cars like these would have similar characteristics coming from the same group.
But character? No. Not either. Drive the last of the "proper" Bentleys and you would feel great character.
But many people don't want or think about character in a car. So for £40K they buy the Audi and those who want to be a deal more flash/bling etc buy the Bentley. The Bentely is safe, un dramatic, supercar ownership.
I've driven a couple of Contis (and one Spur) and only 2 things really leapt-out at me
1 - THE SPEED - I'm not kidding, the throttle is connected to a bomb of some sort - very, very little comes close and nothing does it with so little effort.
2 - they're not the nice places to sit I'd been led to believe
If you've gotten out of a VW or Audi and get into a Bentley - oh yes, it's so much better BUT
If you've been in a classic Bentley or RR or even Jaguar or Aston at their peak, things aren't so great. The switches are nicely trimmed but they're attached to stock VW "B surface" - the leather is nice but it's that modern 'waxy' leather so beloved of german makers and not the fantastically rich and expensive feeling stuff you used to see in RRs and Bentleys. What you have, in effect, is Bentley's hand-crafted skill applied on-top of bits from a Golf - abeit a posh one.
I also think their association with footballers (one of the cars I drove belonged to a premiership player and I appeared in the local paper 'as him' when someone snapped me dropping it off!) and TOWIE types actually harms more than it helps - I don't think that thing stands comparison to a classic Bentley in terms of 'Bentleyness' at all and if it didn't have the 'Cheshire Couture' thing it would be a car almost entirely without a market.
Of course it goes so much better than a classic Bentley and there is the crux of Chris's issue - because if you remove all the foibles and make every car's drivetrain tractable, their steering perfectly weighted, their gearshifts slick and their ride lovely - every car will feel exactly the same!
Because what made them different before, was their flaws, but a German company would never leave those in, would it? See also Lamborghini...
p.s. the handbrake buttons being the same place is hardly suspicious - handbrakes used to live in the same place didn't they?
1 - THE SPEED - I'm not kidding, the throttle is connected to a bomb of some sort - very, very little comes close and nothing does it with so little effort.
2 - they're not the nice places to sit I'd been led to believe
If you've gotten out of a VW or Audi and get into a Bentley - oh yes, it's so much better BUT
If you've been in a classic Bentley or RR or even Jaguar or Aston at their peak, things aren't so great. The switches are nicely trimmed but they're attached to stock VW "B surface" - the leather is nice but it's that modern 'waxy' leather so beloved of german makers and not the fantastically rich and expensive feeling stuff you used to see in RRs and Bentleys. What you have, in effect, is Bentley's hand-crafted skill applied on-top of bits from a Golf - abeit a posh one.
I also think their association with footballers (one of the cars I drove belonged to a premiership player and I appeared in the local paper 'as him' when someone snapped me dropping it off!) and TOWIE types actually harms more than it helps - I don't think that thing stands comparison to a classic Bentley in terms of 'Bentleyness' at all and if it didn't have the 'Cheshire Couture' thing it would be a car almost entirely without a market.
Of course it goes so much better than a classic Bentley and there is the crux of Chris's issue - because if you remove all the foibles and make every car's drivetrain tractable, their steering perfectly weighted, their gearshifts slick and their ride lovely - every car will feel exactly the same!
Because what made them different before, was their flaws, but a German company would never leave those in, would it? See also Lamborghini...
p.s. the handbrake buttons being the same place is hardly suspicious - handbrakes used to live in the same place didn't they?
The genericised nature of VAG cars is something which has been around for years- why bring it up as an 'intriguing' point now CH?
From zero to hero, from Lupo to Murcielago, there is a language of flat-panelled, fairy-lit digitalness that rules the exteriors, accompanied by a darkened hellishness within.
It seems a lot more than the result of the arrival of standardisation, parts-sharing or quality control. It feels like some kind of 'way of being' has invaded all VAG cars, maybe morphing them into some kind of super-manufacturer one day with no pretensions to having different brands. The key on the Veyron is the same flick-out job as a humble A6, just with a measure of quilted redness to it to tart it up.
To defend it all using seemingly benign reasons is easy: quality and market success have their self-evident narratives. Good, inoffensive and sometimes striking angular designs, having nonetheless something samey about them. But in all that convergence, something is being sapped away from the motley, haphazard crew of companies that VAG swallowed up in its amoebic, exponential growth cycle the last 20 years. Something that surely didn't need to happen as perceptibly as it has done, if the brands needed to survive?
Borgswagen. We were fed up of spending money on different logos.
Borgswagen 1.0 to 89.4, from £9,000 to £1.4m, and everything in between being a gradient of imperceptible changes, a set of chinese whispers in design that leave one feeling as if Derren Brown has taken over the (inevitably universally-fonted) satnav.
From zero to hero, from Lupo to Murcielago, there is a language of flat-panelled, fairy-lit digitalness that rules the exteriors, accompanied by a darkened hellishness within.
It seems a lot more than the result of the arrival of standardisation, parts-sharing or quality control. It feels like some kind of 'way of being' has invaded all VAG cars, maybe morphing them into some kind of super-manufacturer one day with no pretensions to having different brands. The key on the Veyron is the same flick-out job as a humble A6, just with a measure of quilted redness to it to tart it up.
To defend it all using seemingly benign reasons is easy: quality and market success have their self-evident narratives. Good, inoffensive and sometimes striking angular designs, having nonetheless something samey about them. But in all that convergence, something is being sapped away from the motley, haphazard crew of companies that VAG swallowed up in its amoebic, exponential growth cycle the last 20 years. Something that surely didn't need to happen as perceptibly as it has done, if the brands needed to survive?
Borgswagen. We were fed up of spending money on different logos.
Borgswagen 1.0 to 89.4, from £9,000 to £1.4m, and everything in between being a gradient of imperceptible changes, a set of chinese whispers in design that leave one feeling as if Derren Brown has taken over the (inevitably universally-fonted) satnav.
Edited by Light n Hairy on Wednesday 13th March 21:05
personally, i think these two cars more than most in the VW family will be similar anyway, as the the way CH describes the S4 is almost the way i would describe the GT - a car designed to integrate seamlessly into peoples lives. I might be wrong, but i dont think people 'generally' by Conti GTs cos they are huge petrol heads. They just want the comfort and speed of a decent car.
still, the scale of economies will always be present in such business entities, but things like switch gear being in the same place across marques, is more to do with it being good ergonomics.. no?
either way, keep the vids and articles coming!
still, the scale of economies will always be present in such business entities, but things like switch gear being in the same place across marques, is more to do with it being good ergonomics.. no?
either way, keep the vids and articles coming!
Did anyone else pick up on the "A Ferrari FF, a car which I'm not supposed to have driven is quite a bit busier a speed than this thing".
Customer car? Or is Jason Harris at FNE PR giving him the keys when the bosses have their backs turned?
Either way, great thought provoking video. Keep them coming.
Customer car? Or is Jason Harris at FNE PR giving him the keys when the bosses have their backs turned?
Either way, great thought provoking video. Keep them coming.
V8 FOU said:
Drive the last of the "proper" Bentleys and you would feel great character.
I recently had a new Mulsanne and a Conti GTC and the difference is stark. I wholeheartedly agree with Chris insofar as the Conti, while hugely impressive, just feels like a car. The Mulsanne does the whole 'drawing room on wheels' thing so much more effecctively. So yes, a modern Bentley can have the proper old-school feel. You just need to spend more to get it.
excellentsagarich said:
Did anyone else pick up on the "A Ferrari FF, a car which I'm not supposed to have driven is quite a bit busier a speed than this thing".
Customer car? Or is Jason Harris at FNE PR giving him the keys when the bosses have their backs turned?
Either way, great thought provoking video. Keep them coming.
I assume this is because CH spoke out about the way Ferrari controls every aspect of journalists driving its cars. Forgive me please if this is inaccurate Chris, but allegedly journos are not always given factory spec cars, but they are modified to make them faster than competition. As such he is now 'banned' as it were from driving them, officially anyway. I suppose he borrowed the FF.Customer car? Or is Jason Harris at FNE PR giving him the keys when the bosses have their backs turned?
Either way, great thought provoking video. Keep them coming.
The article - http://jalopnik.com/5760248/how-ferrari-spins
^ A good read by the way.
someday said:
The high level brake light on those Bentleys is stupidly long. Lights up like a council house at Christmas.
That has always been one of my favourite things about the Continental. It's so clean from the rear. The integrated tail lights work well and the high level brake light is so distinctive. One of my favourite things about the Continental, and I'm pleased that they look so good from behind as that's usually where you'll be seeing them from, provided they can find a road wide enough to overtake on. Their 'footballer image' is a little unsavoury though, and that is a shame. Without it, they would likely be heralded as one of the greatest cars of the era and I would consider them a design triumph. But living near to a country hotel and golf course popular with the local footballers, I've seen plenty of these super GT's in garish colours. Enough to sour their otherwise respectable image. I'd still have one though, if I had the readies. A lovely car.The S4, on the other hand, I do find find less exciting. Harris is spot on about Audi's transition into a white good manufacturer. Their cars have evolved in a curious manner over the past decade; embracing an outward vulgarity of aesthetic whilst concurrently becoming homogenised appliances. I find very little in their design or execution now to thrill me as a driver whereas once they were the quirky German marque, more akin to Volvo and Saab in terms of 'doing it their way'. Now they just look like pricier, but no posher VW's to me. Save of course, for my uncle's RS6 which is world shatteringly fast and sadly automatic too.
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