Returning a second hand vehicle within 14 days.

Returning a second hand vehicle within 14 days.

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Oli748

Original Poster:

39 posts

123 months

Thursday 30th May 2013
quotequote all
Evening chaps,

I've just bought myself a second hand 03 Mercedes Ml 270 from a well known national dealer. initially I was pleased with the car. I thought it would be good practice to take the car to a local indi that specialises in merc's. and asked them to do a used car check.

I got the results back and I have to say I'm a little disappointed. aside from a couple of minor niggles which I discussed with the sales guys and was happy to accept that the car is 10 yr's old and will not be perfect (parking sensors not working & small crack on mirror indicator lense). I was informed by the indi that there where some larger issues.

Inlet Manifold leaking oil
Fuel hoses high and low pressure leaking fuel onto V belts
Pilot bush (transmission electrical connector) leaking transmission fluid.

All in totaling around £930 of work.

I bought the car under the premise that a mechanical inspection would be carried out. the car would be in be sound mechanical order with a fresh MOT.

With this in mind I took the car back to the dealers, and was told it could have the faults "inspected" the following week. so that was that and the car was booked in for it's inspection yesterday.

I was told they would have the car all day and I would get a call before any work was carried out. No calls all day, so at 16:30 I deiced I would ring them before they all went home. to which I waited on hold for 20 mins. now unfortunately for the dealership I live within walking distance. so after 15 mins on hold I thought bugger this and walked in.

Once I got there I was left waiting for about 10 mins for the service manager. It was clear from the start of the conversation that there was a clear attempt to fob me off and try and baffle me with technical speak. luckily for me I'm not daft and cut through the bullst pretty easily. I was told the fuel line connections where "sweating" fuel and there was no leak to fix. I was also told the pilot bush oil seal was "sweating" again no leak. and to top it off I was told they couldn't find an oil leak. I asked where they looked, i was told under the bonnet. I asked did they take then engine
cover off to my shock he replied no!

at this point i explained to the guy I wasn't daft and knew the implications if the issues where not fixed (I.E. fuel pipe leaking onto water pump belt - cooling failure warped head etc, leaking transmission fluid - lack of lubrication wrecked g/b & engine oil leak, lack of lubrication written off engine).

Pretty annoyed at this point I made my intentions clear, please fix the issues or I will return it as it is not fit for purpose.

to which he said they would keep hold of the car until Thursday and do some further inspections. I'm waiting to hear back. I expressed my opinion that after spending a decent amount of cash on the car I did not expect to have a close to 1k bill a couple of weeks later!


Oh just as a side note I purchased the extended warranty with the car.

so if anyone has managed to get this far without nodding off...If the dealer wont do the work. how do I go about returning the car? I'll have had it 14 days as of today. So they got the car back after 13.
Also is there anything else I need to do to back my case up? I've written a fairly lengthy e-mail and sent it to the service manager, the branch & the national help line.

Cheers,

Oli

TheEnd

15,370 posts

129 months

Thursday 30th May 2013
quotequote all
It seems you have an expensive quote for a few leaky pipes.
I'd have the feeling it's your indy who's just thinking about his summer holidays.

Oli748

Original Poster:

39 posts

123 months

Thursday 30th May 2013
quotequote all
TheEnd said:
It seems you have an expensive quote for a few leaky pipes.
I'd have the feeling it's your indy who's just thinking about his summer holidays.
Cheers for the reply.

Sorry I've not explained the pricing very well;

Inlet manifold requires replacement - £806.70
fuel pipes require replacement - £39.00
Pilot bush requires replacement - £66.50

Unfortunately none of the items are serviceable and require replacement. The inspection was done at the indi knowing that I wasn't going to have the work carried out there.

Cheers,

Oli

jamoor

9,749 posts

156 months

Thursday 30th May 2013
quotequote all
1) how many miles, how much did you pay for the car?
2) Second hand manifold? Is it cracked or something? Where is it leaking from, it's probably just a seal as they don't just leak randomly.

TheEnd

15,370 posts

129 months

Thursday 30th May 2013
quotequote all
Right, the inlet manifold is the killer here. I'd expect most diesel engines to show some dampness around joints in pipes, but the interesting one is the manifold.

I'm not sure how or why it would have oil near it, or what the actual problem is.
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KungFuPanda

3,142 posts

111 months

Thursday 30th May 2013
quotequote all
Shouldn't you have got the inspection done before purchasing the vehicle or are you stupid?

Oli748

Original Poster:

39 posts

123 months

Thursday 30th May 2013
quotequote all
jamoor said:
1) how many miles, how much did you pay for the car?
2) Second hand manifold? Is it cracked or something? Where is it leaking from, it's probably just a seal as they don't just leak randomly.
1) £5800
2) The independent said it was from the swirl flaps.

TheEnd said:
Right, the inlet manifold is the killer here. I'd expect most diesel engines to show some dampness around joints in pipes, but the interesting one is the manifold.

I'm not sure how or why it would have oil near it, or what the actual problem is.
Cheers, I guess your right about the signs of dampness, just the independent assured me that fuel was leaking onto the v belts.

KungFuPanda said:
Shouldn't you have got the inspection done before purchasing the vehicle or are you stupid?
Please read the post fully. I trusted the main dealer to do a full inspection(wrongly). I don't want to get into an internet argument..it's pretty tragic

22rgt B Squadron

339 posts

78 months

Thursday 30th May 2013
quotequote all
Theres likely very little wrong with it. Plastic fuel line connectors will have two rubber O rings on the male part and can be replaced for pennies.As for the manifold it probably has oil on it from a minor leak elsewhere, maybe the cam cover gasket? Have the engine steam cleaned and check exactly where this leak is coming from.
The bill you have there is excessive and sounds like your independant just looking for easy money..

andy-xr

13,204 posts

145 months

Thursday 30th May 2013
quotequote all
It sounds that you're being a bit overly precious about it and reacting to a worst case quote from an indy. How was that set up?

'Hi, I'm going to be buying a car from a dealer, not you, and I'd like you to inspect it, then I'll get the dealer to fix it, not you'

Neither the indy or the dealer are going to be inclined to want to deal with you. The indy for not getting the work, so they'll quote Who Cares Anyway rates, and the dealer for you buying a car then storming back to them saying it's all fked and everyone's going to die.

Now you're thinking about returning it - to be honest the dealer might take this up as the easiest option, so good luck with it!

VolvoT5

4,115 posts

115 months

Thursday 30th May 2013
quotequote all
£930 sounds a bit expensive to fix a couple of leaks which sound fairly minor (but note, I'm no mechanic...).

I have some sympathy as I recently bought a car from a dealer that required some repairs shortly after purchase and it was a bit of a nightmare getting them done to be honest. However, I don't think you can just reject the car, they have a right to attempt to fix it first. I also think they are likely to take the line that as the car isn't actually broken, what you are experiencing is not unexpected for a car of that age and price - i.e. it is not unreasonable that some parts show wear and tear.

Who is the extended warranty with? If it is insurance based (i.e. customer protect) then it probably isn't worth the paper it is printed on.

See what they come back with, hopefully they will be reasonable because even though the law may be on your side, it will be difficult to actually get the issue resolved if they don't feel inclined.

Oli748

Original Poster:

39 posts

123 months

Thursday 30th May 2013
quotequote all
andy-xr said:
It sounds that you're being a bit overly precious about it and reacting to a worst case quote from an indy. How was that set up?

'Hi, I'm going to be buying a car from a dealer, not you, and I'd like you to inspect it, then I'll get the dealer to fix it, not you'

Neither the indy or the dealer are going to be inclined to want to deal with you. The indy for not getting the work, so they'll quote Who Cares Anyway rates, and the dealer for you buying a car then storming back to them saying it's all fked and everyone's going to die.

Now you're thinking about returning it - to be honest the dealer might take this up as the easiest option, so good luck with it!
I guess I need to explain about the independent, I booked it in for a service as i thought it was due one. turns out it wasn't but I had already explained to the independent that i'd only picked the car up a week or so ago and would they mind having a check over it, they said yeah not a problem, we'll do a used vehicle check on it. then the issues were raised.

From a bit of googling and reading forums, the inlet manifold oil leak has happened a few times to other owners, and does require a new manifold. with this in mind, I don't feel it's unreasonable to have the manifold changed under warranty as I've just paid out 6k. and I feel having to pay as near as dammit 1k a couple of weeks later is unjust.

The reason for the pursuit of the fuel leak is the location. if it was meerly a small amount leaking onto the floor it wouldn't pose such a great issue. however with the fuel leaking onto the belts leading to degrading of the rubber and potential failure, i really would like it addressed. and if it is such a small job for the dealer to do, I don't feel it is unreasonable.

If the issues where only small and totaled a few quid i'd do them myself. however the whole point of me buying the car from the dealer was the extra piece of mind that came with it and the assurance of an extended warranty. I'd just take the pain if i'd bought privately, but i would of paid less for the car in the first place...

Thanks again for all the reply's.

hidetheelephants

14,701 posts

134 months

Thursday 30th May 2013
quotequote all
Oli748 said:

TheEnd said:
Right, the inlet manifold is the killer here. I'd expect most diesel engines to show some dampness around joints in pipes, but the interesting one is the manifold.

I'm not sure how or why it would have oil near it, or what the actual problem is.
Cheers, I guess your right about the signs of dampness, just the independent assured me that fuel was leaking onto the v belts.
The oil has to get into the inlet manifold before it can leak out; I've no experience of this engine's layout but the only obvious source of oil would be via the turbo, either from leaky spindle seals or excessive crankcase breathing. Either of these are likely to give wallet pain. Is there any chance the indy is being a bit cautious; i.e. could the oil around/on the manifold be just an accumulation from oil spilt topping up the engine(or similar)? Unless the engine was given a steam clean and then taken for a run, what looks like an oil leak often isn't.

VolvoT5

4,115 posts

115 months

Thursday 30th May 2013
quotequote all
Oli748 said:
If the issues where only small and totaled a few quid i'd do them myself. however the whole point of me buying the car from the dealer was the extra piece of mind that came with it and the assurance of an extended warranty. I'd just take the pain if i'd bought privately, but i would of paid less for the car in the first place...

Thanks again for all the reply's.
Yeah, I (naively) thought like this too. In actual fact the real reason to buy from a dealer is to pay full retail price and to still get virtually no peace of mind - They either tell you to f-off when something goes wrong or to do such a slow/shoddy job that you wish you hadn't bothered taking it back for the 'warranty' repair in the first place.

I could have bought my car privately for at least £500 less and done any repairs myself...... I bet your situation is similar. I can no longer see the point of dealers at this end of the market unless you are desperate to PX or finance; they do little to no prep on the car and the warranty offered is often worthless. OK you are in theory covered under the SOGA, but the time and effort required to enforce it....! /cynical