How to prevent scum tenants from trashing the place

How to prevent scum tenants from trashing the place

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fizz47

Original Poster:

2,651 posts

209 months

Monday 2nd December 2013
quotequote all
Three months into a tenanacy our current tenants seem to be of the asbo, chav scum drug taking retards who think the world owes them a living.


Tenant was placed by a letting agent who did all the checks.. The neighbours of our property have had to call the police twice as in the middle of the night they were smashing things or one of their druggy friends was trying to break the door down.


Anyway went around today to replace a six month old shower which they had managed to break. Place reeks of cigarettes of both the legal and non legal variety with holes in the carpet and ashtrays lying everywhere despite the tenancy saying it is a non smoking place.

When asking them about the smoking tenant went off on one and started shouting etc that we are bad landlords etc etc...

Long story short - how do we get them out ASAP and prevent them from trashing the place which by her tone she is planning to do.


Red Devil

13,048 posts

207 months

Monday 2nd December 2013
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It won't be easy as the courts can be reluctant to turf people out of a home but it seems like you have more than one of the discretionary grounds for possession - http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/content/grounds-for-... - numbers 12,13,&14. The last one is good for you as the neighbours have complained about the nuisance. If the tenants are doing anything illegal that will count against them too.

The first step is to serve a Section 21 notice - http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/content/section-21-n... - it is essential to get the entire process right or the court will throw out any application for a possession order.

Hope you get it sorted. I suffered a fair amount of grief from a druggie tenant. Fortunately she did a runner, so I didn't have the trouble of incurring the cost and inconvenience in getting a possession order. I discovered she had a violent b/f so there was no chance she would return during the remainder of the tenancy period. It also helped that I had insurance in place covering the bulk of the loss of rent. Still cost me a considerable amount though in remedying all the damage she had caused and completely repainting the flat before it was fit to be re-let.

Edited by Red Devil on Monday 2nd December 20:45

Rubin215

3,982 posts

155 months

Monday 2nd December 2013
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Ski-masks and baseball bats.

Scummy types will expect that they have just transgressed on the manor somehow and won't link their beating to their law-abiding landlord.

After two or three hammerings they will understand that their assailants know where they live and keep coming back so will do a moonlight; you might be short of rent, but they won't come back for their deposit.

BE57 TOY

2,628 posts

146 months

Monday 2nd December 2013
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We have had a similar problems in the past and offering them their deposit back plus the previous months rent to leave immediately seemed to do the trick.

Works for them because they get some money back.

Works for us because no further damage is done during the time getting rid of them.

HTH

Red Devil

13,048 posts

207 months

Monday 2nd December 2013
quotequote all
If the money angle works and they censored off, that's fine. If you get one of those 'I know my rights' types though you're stuffed. There's quite a few who know how to play the system to their advantage.

fizz47

Original Poster:

2,651 posts

209 months

Monday 2nd December 2013
quotequote all
Red Devil said:
If the money angle works and they censored off, that's fine. If you get one of those 'I know my rights' types though you're stuffed. There's quite a few who know how to play the system to their advantage.
That's the problem - I have a strong inclination that she is going to play the system - young so called problem child who she loves to point out has ADH or something along those lines...

Also tried to claim today that she hadn't had a proper shower in 3 months either......don't know what the purpose of that is..



BE57 TOY

2,628 posts

146 months

Monday 2nd December 2013
quotequote all
Red Devil said:
If the money angle works and they censored off, that's fine. If you get one of those 'I know my rights' types though you're stuffed. There's quite a few who know how to play the system to their advantage.
True. Most people will take the money and go if they know they will be evicted eventually anyway though.

davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Monday 2nd December 2013
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I guess the first thing to do is to give them notice to quit on the first possible date - I suppose that's three months away though? Might as well get the clock ticking.

Wings

5,805 posts

214 months

Monday 2nd December 2013
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Numbers 12, 13 &14 refers to a Section 8 Notice, and not a Section 21 Notice.

I have had similar tenants to the OP, ending up with a flat removed of it's bathroom, toilet and kitchen, main front door and internal doors all smashed off their hinges, with the former door removed by the local police during a drugs raid. I went through the Section 8 process, taking nearly 5 months through the courts to remove the tenants, using the court bailiffs and police on standby to evict the tenants.

Not knowing the tenants makes it difficult to advise the OP, a financial bribe to the tenants might work, although it might escalate the situation, as might serving Notice on the tenants, there is of course other options the Op might consider....

Red Devil

13,048 posts

207 months

Monday 2nd December 2013
quotequote all
If you want to speed things up you use Section 8, not section 21. If using discretionary grounds 12 and/or 13 then it's 2 weeks notice before you can take the tenant to court. If you use ground 14 then you can commence proceedings immediately after serving notice. See the link I posted earlier. Bear in mind that possession under Section 8 is not automatic and you will have to convince the court. That is not by any means a foregone conclusion.

Stubby Pete

2,488 posts

245 months

Monday 2nd December 2013
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What exactly did the letting agent do and agree to do?

I have come across situations before where they agreed but failed to take up references when finding a tenant for a property. Managed to recover abiut 75% of the repair and legal costs from them.

Might be worth a look for future. As far as getting them out without more damage goes, I'd start putting some money to one side if you can. Sorry I can't be of more help.

Wings

5,805 posts

214 months

Monday 2nd December 2013
quotequote all
Red Devil said:
If you want to speed things up you use Section 8, not section 21. If using discretionary grounds 12 and/or 13 then it's 2 weeks notice before you can take the tenant to court. If you use ground 14 then you can commence proceedings immediately after serving notice. See the link I posted earlier. Bear in mind that possession under Section 8 is not automatic and you will have to convince the court. That is not by any means a foregone conclusion.
A Section 8 Notice may not necessary speed things up, especially with courts closing and cases before the courts increasing. Not unusual for repossession using a Section 8 Notice to take up to 5 months. My preference for using a Section 8 Notice, is that there is just one legal proceedings to recover possession and to seek recovery of any rental arrears, costs for any damages, legal costs etc. etc.

As another poster mentioned, worth talking to letting agents who found the tenants, to possibly look at any references, employers details etc. etc.



wildcat45

8,052 posts

188 months

Tuesday 3rd December 2013
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Ski masks etc........

I've a friend who owns a few places. He gets bother like this from time to time. No voilence, he just rock up with five or six lads tells them they are out of order and it may be best all round if they left.

The lads are just some mates from the.pub. Not hardmen accountants, road sweepers, whoever.

Just a bit of presence to persuade. Don't bother with the law for those who don't abde by the law. Tell them to get the fk out with the implied offer of assistance in doing so. Once they are on the streets, they can go to court etc. Will they?

anothernameitist

1,500 posts

134 months

Tuesday 3rd December 2013
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I had one problem tennant who I wanted out.

He knew his rights etc, telling me some one in the pub had advised him of his rights.

The little scroate sent me a text whilst I was in the pub one Saturday evening, that tipped me over the edge and four of us went down to the flat.

Sure he knew his "rights", but he also had some common sense too.

Moved out and I changed the locks within the hour.

Went back to pub and got a few more beers.

I'm not a hard man and neither were the other 3, but I'm no push over, treat these people on like for like terms.


jbsportstech

5,069 posts

178 months

Tuesday 3rd December 2013
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If their past 12 months serve a section 13 notice with a massive rent increase

Darranu

338 posts

219 months

Tuesday 3rd December 2013
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As others have said you're wasting your time working within the law when the scum you're up against don't.

The use of force is the only thing they understand and before some do gooding prick comes along saying that landlords shouldn't behave like that etc just think of this.
We don't ask for this type of problem and when we get them it can wipe out 1 / 2 years of profit if we go through the courts, it also makes us more sceptical and blunt with the genuine tenants who may get the wrong impression of their landlord due to the stress scum like this cause.

Force and intimidation is the way forward but for gods sake make sure it can't be linked back to you as they'll get legal aid and by the time you're finished been reamed you could of evicted 10 tenants legally

I'm a landlord of 10 years and I've had a few issues with tenants. I've learnt never to trust a letting agent and vet my own tenants now.
Easiest thing to get a tenant, hardest thing getting rid...

elanfan

5,515 posts

226 months

Tuesday 3rd December 2013
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Why not offer them a suitably large sum in cash to leave the property and give up the tenancy. On the basis that they hand the keys to someone who can check they have left the premises as you saw it and clean and tidy. On receipt of that call agree you'll meet them at the bank to sign off on the tenancy and hand over the cash. Turn up get them to sign for the cash/return of deposit/end of tenancy. Make sure you have withdrawn the correct amount of cash earlier in the day and then just walk away! You can claim to have handed it over, you have the documents and proof same amount of cash was withdrawn. particularly if you have a witness!

Make sure you have some friends who will look after the property and change the locks etc for a few days.

Love to see scum get their comeuppnce.

fttm

3,659 posts

134 months

Tuesday 3rd December 2013
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As has been said already you're wasting time trying to do this legally .
I had a well referenced tenant turn into a nightmare , mainly drug and alcohol related , rent not getting paid , and complaints from neighbours etc etc . I gave the guy multiple chances to get his st together and informed him what my actions would be should he not bother . He carried on being an arse so when the straw broke the camels back I turned up one morning , he went out through the front door , all his possessions went out through the windows , 3 floors up , which I then loaded into my trailer and took to his ex partner and mother of his children's house . I then changed all the locks , while he watched whilst sat on the garden wall , then generously took him out for breakfast and explained that I never wanted to see nor hear from him again , and I never did .

TC99

119 posts

122 months

Monday 10th March 2014
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It seems some posters here are definitely of the Van Hoogstratten / Rachman mentality with the suggestions of violence and ski masks. It's daft to be frank, you could turn up, threaten people or dish out a few whacks and someone could die of a heart attack and you spend the next five years in prison for manslaughter. Why bother taking the risk?

Just use the proper procedure to end the tenancy and evict them. The law in the UK is so skewed towards landlords anyway, it's not too much bother.

Rovinghawk

13,300 posts

157 months

Monday 10th March 2014
quotequote all
TC99 said:
It seems some posters here are definitely of the Van Hoogstratten / Rachman mentality with the suggestions of violence and ski masks. It's daft to be frank, you could turn up, threaten people or dish out a few whacks and someone could die of a heart attack and you spend the next five years in prison for manslaughter. Why bother taking the risk?
I was part of a 'goodwill visit' to some bad tenants once upon a time. We were very polite, just quietly standing around whilst the LL politely told the tenant that he should move elsewhere in the very near future. He moved out an hour later. No threats, no violence, not even raised voices. No worries.

TC99 said:
Just use the proper procedure to end the tenancy and evict them.
The process can't even start for 3 months & can last a further 6 months with huge legal bills. No point in suing the tenant for the thousands of pounds of damage as
1) they have no known fixed address other than the rental property
2) they have no real assets so they're not worth suing

TC99 said:
The law in the UK is so skewed towards landlords anyway, it's not too much bother.
If you genuinely believe that, sit down with me & a couple of beers & I'll give you the full story. I'm a LL but rented in the past- I've seen both sides of the story. Have you?

To the OP- too late to advise you now, but my bad experience quickly convinced me to not use rental agencies as they tend to be thieving troglodytes who promise the moon, charge the earth and are as much use as a one legged man in an arse-kicking contest when required to actually earn their fees.

Find & vet tenants yourself if at all possible; I've never got myself a bad one, the agency never got me a good one.