Tuesday 3rd December 2013

VTEC just kicked in: PH Blog

Honda fanboy Matt gets all starry eyed over lots of revs and not a lot of torque

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It has been a good couple of weeks to be a Honda fan. The next Civic Type R is shaping up to be a cracker, all sounds promising on the NSX front and the return of an estate in the BTCC is just plain cool.

Famous names, due for a revival very soon

But there's an ingredient missing from all this fast Honda excitement, and you know exactly what those four letters are. Please allow me two minutes on the PH soapbox, for here's a farewell paean to the high-revving Honda.

Using Shed Civic after prolonged exposure to modern cars came as something of a shock. Initially it was the sogginess of it, the basicness of the interior and the wonderful airiness afforded by so much glass (that's a blog subject for another day though).

But then it became all too apparent how much effort was required to get, well, anywhere really. Our Mountuned Fiesta ST has nearly TWICE the torque of the Civic (236lb ft versus 122lb ft) and you soon have to get out of the habit of expecting go in any gear.

And though this is a horribly predictable thing to say, a VTEC is just such an exciting thing to use when you do put the effort in and use a lower gear. As the turbocharged Fiesta begins to tighten at around 6,000rpm, the Civic is about to reward for keeping your foot down.

No 8K redline for next-gen Honda red tops

Now would be the right time for a 'just kicked in' comment but, with only 170hp and some rangey gear ratios, nothing too furious happens in the Civic over the last 2,000rpm or so. But it is keener, the noise is harder and it's just hugely satisfying to rev out something that looks so dour to 8,500rpm. In fact there's something hugely satisfying about revving out anything four-wheeled to 8,5000rpm isn't there? The red paint starts at 8 and it feels suitably manic through that last 500rpm, but that feeling is probably exaggerated by the fear of fluffing the gearchange.

Of course there are compromises, I know. It's not particularly efficient, the torque deficit makes just pootling along too hard and the silly gear ratios means your ricer side can't be indulged too often. Having said that, in a world of small turbos, a high-revving atmospheric engine that needs commitment is something different and another challenge. Variety is the spice of life, right?

I'm confident the next wave of fast Hondas will be exceptionally good cars, but some of the appeal will be lost as legislation forces the introduction of turbos. However if torque's not cheap, then revs are; early EP3 Civic Type Rs are now under £3K. Yo.

[mik_jg]

Love it! Got a '99 Prelude 2.2 VTEC as a toy and there's just something addictive about revving the nuts off it and feeling the VTEC kicking in.

[dukebox9reg]

I just dont get the vtec thing. Id rather have a quick car day to day without having to ring its neck to get any performance. Yes its nice on a track. My commute to work is not a track....

Im looking forward to the turbo Civic

[only1ian]

Much the same fun and joy of rev was had in my Mr2Mk1 1.6 twincam

[Benjaminbopper]

£2950?! That's quite exceptional. Another £1000 in the pot and you've got yourself a very nice low maintenance track car.

[TooMany2cvs]

Now where's Kinky got to... There might be a few tales of silliness in the red 4-dr VTi (About L-reg?) that he had as a co.car for a while, back in the day...

Cracking engine when you got the tacho fired up, but you really did have to wring the nadgers off it, and the rest of the car was just plain laughably bad.

[Mikebentley]

Had a new TypeR in 2002, great car that was I felt also good on fuel. One of the only cars that the wife tells me off for selling! At the time also looked a bit bat mobile in black and almost cartoonish with details like the speedo and rev counter script.

[k-ink]

Aside from the original and wonderful Civic Type R, the latter cars have very dull witted steering. They feel like sleep inducing mini people carriers for school run Mums. The engine alone does not make up for zero feedback. Get the original Civic or DC2, or GTFO

[cramorra]

Unfortunately anything high reving will be soon a thing of the past - and whilst I had only a shed accord I know what you mean as the Speed six and the CERBERA needed high revs- i also feel turbacharged engines loose the spontanety of their NA counterparts althoug the AMG and M power and soon the honda boys will tell us different
This also will become eventually a problem for the small volume car makers like LOTUS and classic track toy makers like cATERHAM unless they put bike engines in - tubo for super seven anyone???

[Lunar Tick]

Yes, it's true that in comparison with a boosted engine, the Honda K20A is no torque monster. However, with a decent manifold and remap, you can easily net 150lb/ft, which transforms the midrange. A few more bolt-ons can take you quite a bit further - for example, my NA FD2 Civic makes 186lb/ft at 5300rpm and revs out to 8800rpm, where it makes 274bhp. Of course, you still have to wring its neck to extract everything its got to give but that's huge, huge fun

[Andy ap]

Cars are getting as lazy as the rest of us. ---JOKE.

Edited by Andy ap on Tuesday 3rd December 10:20

[Axionknight]

I have only driven an EP3 and an FN2 but enjoyed driving them, I have a Clio Sport which isn't AS revvy as the K20 but is the same general idea and I love it. It's a shame that performance cars are moving away from this ethos of high revving N/A engines what with new emissions laws and the idea of easier performance eing what most people want -which I guess it is and if that's what sells cars and keeps companies afloat then so be it.

I also think they get a load of stick unfairly, in this day and age of trick twin clutch automatic gear boxes and turbo diesels everywhere with their lazy driving style, personally I prefer a more "old school" approach to performance.

BRB, off to look at FD2's in the classifieds.

[dukebox9reg]

Lunar Tick said:

Yes, it's true that in comparison with a boosted engine, the Honda K20A is no torque monster. However, with a decent manifold and remap, you can easily net 150lb/ft, which transforms the midrange. A few more bolt-ons can take you quite a bit further - for example, my NA FD2 Civic makes 186lb/ft at 5300rpm and revs out to 8800rpm, where it makes 274bhp. Of course, you still have to wring its neck to extract everything its got to give but that's huge, huge fun

186lbft isnt a bad number but at 5300! In day to day driving that is still pretty high up and to use that much tq you are still going to be looking like a hooligan.

driving at 30-50 you're still going have to rev it out to nip in and out of traffic and look a bit of a tube doing it at 6k plus with a shouty exhaust (which i'm assuming you have)

Even 1.6 turbos can match that tq figure in standard trim from naff all revs and thats my point you can drive 'quickly' with much less effort and without looking like a tube (i'm not saying you are but plenty of Type R owners with just the generic 5 inch jap style can hanging off the back bumpers are)

[pimpchez]

VVTL-i should also be mentioned here ,combined with a K&N typhoon in my old corolla it suprised alot of people .The change over at 6200rpm really did "lift" you.

[MonkeySpanker]

Driving everywhere at 9000rpm is HUGE fun, but tiring.

[Axionknight]

dukebox9reg said:

186lbft isnt a bad number but at 5300! In day to day driving that is still pretty high up and to use that much tq you are still going to be looking like a hooligan.

driving at 30-50 you're still going have to rev it out to nip in and out of traffic and look a bit of a tube doing it at 6k plus with a shouty exhaust (which i'm assuming you have)

Even 1.6 turbos can match that tq figure in standard trim from naff all revs and thats my point you can drive 'quickly' with much less effort and without looking like a tube (i'm not saying you are but plenty of Type R owners with just the generic 5 inch jap style can hanging off the back bumpers are)

The thing is, you don't have to screw them into next week to make reasaoanble progress - they are still a two litre petrol engine and I'm sorry, but if people find that unacceptable in terms of power and torque for driving around town then they have some seriously queer expectations of what a car needs to deliver. After all, is a 2.0 isn't enough lord help the majority of the population in their 1.4's and 1.6's right?

[k-ink]

MonkeySpanker said:

Driving everywhere at 9000rpm is HUGE fun, but tiring.

Sex is tiring but you would not want to give that up either

[stevenandalex]

As said great engine when you are in the mood, but for the other 90% of the time give me a forced induction motor.

Steve

[B5NXJ]

the 2.2 in the mugen civic is a fantastic engine . Brutal!

[B5NXJ]

k-ink said:

MonkeySpanker said:

Driving everywhere at 9000rpm is HUGE fun, but tiring.

Sex is tiring but you would not want to give that up either

Spot on!

[JimmyConwayNW]

I remember mortgaging an insurance policy on an 02 type R when I was 19, 8 years back.
Kept it 2 years, and despite needing a new engine in the vehicle ( Honda covered it as a gesture of goodwill) I never tired of the vehicle.

Absolutely loved it and used to enjoy wringing it out to extract every last bit of performance on it. So many good memories, and whenever the opportunity arose to hit the twisties in that car and the road and conditions were quiet enough just giving it some.

I briefly owned a 55plate premier edition 18months ago for around 6months and had an absolute blast in it again. Sometimes when you re visit memory lane expectations can be unmatched, but I was very glad to have a good time in that vehicle.

I think that car taught me how to really drive and handle a vehicle.