I can't start the engine when hot, it seems....

I can't start the engine when hot, it seems....

Author
Discussion

panic

Original Poster:

817 posts

225 months

Wednesday 9th April 2014
quotequote all
...like if the starter doesn't work at all, then after about a few minutes, when the engine get cooler, it goes all right.

Is that the starter motor getting soaked by the heat?

Thanks for any advice and comments.

Giuseppe

DarkMatter

1,413 posts

173 months

Wednesday 9th April 2014
quotequote all
That sounds as though it could be the "Hot Start" problem. You may be able to solve it by cleaning the internals of the starter motor/solenoid, alternatively you could consider the "Modwise" kit. You should be able to find out more with an internet search.

QBee

16,728 posts

86 months

Wednesday 9th April 2014
quotequote all
Well documented, happened to me on my first day of ownership.

It can be heat causing the inadequate wiring to the starter to deliver too little current, but in my case it was the immobiliser failing. The Hot Start Mod helped for a while, but in the end the whole alarm/immobiliser was replaced and the problem never came back.

Suggest you call Carl Baker and describe your symptoms. Contact details on www.tvruk.tv

JFReturns

3,219 posts

113 months

Wednesday 9th April 2014
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Where can you buy one of these kits? If its £20 might be worth it even if no problems.

QBee

16,728 posts

86 months

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panic

Original Poster:

817 posts

225 months

Wednesday 9th April 2014
quotequote all
QBee said:
''....By putting back into the starter solenoid circuit a relay to supply the power, the dreaded hot start is cured. Even if you have never had the problem, it should be done !...''

Could you explain me what's what here, I don't get what does this part do as stated above the website in the link.

The problem I have as ''hot start'' seems like if the fan starts going the moment I switch the contact on and I think it sucks all the battery power cutting the power to the starter...

Infact if I wait sometime enough to cool the engine down, when I switch the contact the fans don't move and the battery power seems to go streight and used to start the engine.

Maybe I'm wrong but this seems to be the cause of the issue, am I wrong?

Loubaruch

785 posts

140 months

Thursday 10th April 2014
quotequote all
Guiseppe,

Most TVRs have a factory fitted immobiliser. The immobiliser isolates three circuits to prevent theft.

1. The fuel pump
2. The ignition circuit
3. The starter motor solonoid

The first two items consume small amounts of electric current,the starter solonoid rather more.
Within the immobiliser are three small relays that enable this isolation to occur

The immobiliser relays for (1) and (2) cope well and generally do not cause problems but the immobiliser for (3) the starter solonoid frequently fails. The failure is probably due to excess current and the fact that the starter solonoid is inductive and causes the relay contacts to burn out. When your engine is hot this problem is made worse, thus it is termed " The hot start problem".

The Modification (Hot start Mod)uses an external large relay to control the starter solonoid thus avoiding large currents through the immobiliser relay and potential problems.


When the problem occurs on your car if you take a +ve feed from the battery (also on the alternator) direct to your starter motor this effectively bypasses the immobilser relay and your car should start. If it does not the problem is elsewhere i.e. earthing or poor connections.

I hope this makes sense

Paul


lockhart flawse

1,638 posts

177 months

Thursday 10th April 2014
quotequote all
I fitted the Mod-wise kit and have had no hot starting problems since (7 years now....).

L.F.

QBee

16,728 posts

86 months

Thursday 10th April 2014
quotequote all
panic,
if thew car is hot, the fans are running, and your battery is churning the engine slowly, but not starting it, then you need to have your battery tested - they only have a 5-6 year life.
if you turn the key and are greeted by silence when the car is hot, then you have some form of hot start problem.

My car starts fine with a good battery and the fans running and with the engine hot, but i have had the problematic immobiliser circuitry replaced. I had other alarm/immobiliser issues anyway (coming out to the car and finding the battery flat and the passenger side indicators fully on - not flashing - presumably since shortly after I locked the car the previous evening)

EGB

1,774 posts

99 months

Thursday 10th April 2014
quotequote all
Solved mine. Starter motor looses it's oomph with age plus the leads from battery getting hot resulting in excess impedence.
Problem was there even with a Modwise kit (now £40). Starter eventually went click, click dead even with a good battery. A NEW 2kw starter (£104 all in delivered next day London & Essex Electrics) not a 1.7kw. Solved the hot start broblem. Now spins engine like a Dervish even when hot, hot!
I have put a heat shield in on top of the motor to shield it from the exhaust manifold just above it (A cut piece of oven aluminium tray from TESCO)
I don't think it's the Meta imobilizer. That cuts the engine dead when on a drive and on round abouts, hell! Mine is bridged and ok for last 4 years.
Burghley here we come this week end.

Edited by EGB on Thursday 10th April 13:11

QBee

16,728 posts

86 months

Thursday 10th April 2014
quotequote all
This thread neatly shows what a pain in the proverbial hot start problems can be, as there are several possible causes. A trip to your TVR expert might be the best solution, as he can test or swap things for you.

Look forward to seeing you there EGB, assuming my car survives Snetterton this evening. eek

EGB

1,774 posts

99 months

Thursday 10th April 2014
quotequote all
QBee said:
This thread neatly shows what a pain in the proverbial hot start problems can be, as there are several possible causes. A trip to your TVR expert might be the best solution, as he can test or swap things for you.

Look forward to seeing you there EGB, assuming my car survives Snetterton this evening. eek
Yes likewise Anthony, you will survive come "hell and high water"! I enjoyed my ride at Snets with NickOrange in the wet last time. Avoiding puddles at 100 down the straits. Safe as houses.
My car at Burghley is an Ocean Haze griff. Trying to decide what day. Both days are good weather wise. Perhaps Sunday. Yes Sunday it is.

Edited by EGB on Thursday 10th April 19:40

panic

Original Poster:

817 posts

225 months

Thursday 10th April 2014
quotequote all
QBee said:
panic,
if thew car is hot, the fans are running, and your battery is churning the engine slowly, but not starting it, then you need to have your battery tested - they only have a 5-6 year life.

if you turn the key and are greeted by silence when the car is hot, then you have some form of hot start problem.
When the car is hot and I turn the key the fans start running strongly but the starter doesn't move at all, silence.

The battery is brand new.

carsy

3,017 posts

107 months

Thursday 10th April 2014
quotequote all
Have a read of this thread and note what Chimpandtonic has to say. He pretty much covers the whole hot start issue.


http://www.pistonheads.com/Gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

panic

Original Poster:

817 posts

225 months

Saturday 12th April 2014
quotequote all
Update, the starter does not engage any longer, engine was cool, battery well charged but you could ear only a grim silence when switch the key on....starter motor gone? An evil gremlin pulling its leg to waste my sunny weekend?

shoot

EGB

1,774 posts

99 months

Saturday 12th April 2014
quotequote all
Hope the fuel pump can be heared having its prime.

ukdj

1,001 posts

126 months

Saturday 12th April 2014
quotequote all
Have you tried the "thump the passenger dash underside while turning the key" method which helps prove if it's the immobiliser getting stuck?

if that doesn't work have you considered that it may be the ignition switch at fault (not the barrel just the electronic bit at the end of the barrel)

Regards

UKDJ

QBee

16,728 posts

86 months

Saturday 12th April 2014
quotequote all
To summarise the last two posts:

If you don't hear the fuel pump prime, then it is most likely the immobiliser.
If you do hear it prime, then candidates are:
Starter solenoid, ignition switch, starter motor, 80 amp fuse, bad earth and anything I haven't remembered

panic

Original Poster:

817 posts

225 months

Saturday 12th April 2014
quotequote all
EGB said:
Hope the fuel pump can be heared having its prime.
Silent.

panic

Original Poster:

817 posts

225 months

Saturday 12th April 2014
quotequote all
QBee said:
To summarise the last two posts:

If you don't hear the fuel pump prime, then it is most likely the immobiliser.
If you do hear it prime, then candidates are:
Starter solenoid, ignition switch, starter motor, 80 amp fuse, bad earth and anything I haven't remembered
The fuel pump stay silent, it's the same as if you try to strat the engine without putting the small thing into the hole under the switch to disingage the immobilizer, I think that is the cause....

But how come it worked until a couple of days ago? I had the problem only when the engine was hot...