RE: Speed Matters? PH Blog
Friday 8th August 2014
Those well-connected souls at Autocar have uncovered details of what might be the Veyron's replacement. I read the story and was overcome by a complete sense of ennui. And I'm someone who dearly loves the Veyron because of its sheer silliness.
This + 400hp and Harris isn't enthused?Why the shrugged shoulders at a car aiming for a 290mph top speed? I'm trying to analyse my reaction and not deciphering anything obvious - maybe it's something simple like that top speed? I just couldn't give a sausage about 290mph in a Veyron Plus Plus. Which shows some rank inconsistencies on my part because I'm very excited about having a go in a Hennessey Venom some time soon. The whole Venom thing seems like madness, and if that's the underlying appeal, maybe the suspicion that VW's crack engineers will be able to rationalise nearly 300mph in a street car into something 'entirely useable' triggers some anti-technology gene in me. 300mph should scare the excrement out of any human being.
To fast for the track, too comprimised for the road?The Veyron replacement isn't the only hyper-mega-car announcement that has me reaching for a copy of Cosmopolitan in the search for more interesting reading - there's a new Caparo coming. It will be called the Evolution T1 and have perhaps 700hp. Responding to that news puts me in a similar position to tackling my three-year-old when he demands pudding having barely touched his main course: "Finish that, and you can have some pudding boy!"
And yet he can't wait to get in the HennesseyBecause try and actually use the T1 on the road and its suspension would have a few difficulties. And having watched my mate Phil Bennett give passenger rides in one at a track day, it's clear the thing struggles to share track space with anything less than an LMP2 car. Because it's silly fast. When it's working.
Speed Matters? PH Blog
Harris is left cold by rumours of a new 290mph Bugatti and mystified by the Caparo T1 Evo - here's why
This + 400hp and Harris isn't enthused?
Of course in the year 2014 the business case for the fastest, most expensive supercar of the them all bearing a Bugatti badge writes itself. Yet we all know most of them will dawdle about at walking speed. But knowing that many McLaren P1s will suffer a similar fate doesn't stop me adoring the thing. How's that? Is it just that I like the aims of the P1, the way its technology is skewed towards a driving experience and a lap time and doesn't care about top speed? I suspect so.
To fast for the track, too comprimised for the road?
I'm sorry, but the whole Caparo T1 thing was a complete mess. The car never seemed to actually work. It was never finished. I'm sure they sold a few, but I've never seen one in the wild or spoken to an owner. I'm sure someone from Caparo will come on here and tell me otherwise, but nothing I've heard or seen suggests the T1 was ever remotely finished, but now we're going to get a faster version. The trouble is, it'll be as redundant a driving device as the last one.
And yet he can't wait to get in the Hennessey
I know I should be delighted that both Bugatti and Caparo's announcements. But I'm much, much more excited about the Hennessey Venon F5, and anything with a Lotus badge on it. Or the next GT3 RS. Or that bonkers 707hp Dodge Hellcat thing.
Maybe my hormones are playing up. Anyone else feel the same?
Chris
Discussion
Partially feeling similar, but I'm in my late 30s too, so maybe I'm just getting old? Whilst I applaud bonkers cars and the people that make them, I personally find them less relevant today. Your point about them all dawdling round at walking pace sums it up perfectly. Which is why these days my daily driver is a 12 year old RenaultSport Clio and my weekend toy is an R300 Caterham. There's so much driving fun to be had in both that the thought of doing 290mph leaves me feeling a bit meh.
I guess Bugatti have such an awesome vehicle just now in the Veyron that the only way to go with its replacement is up, and that means more speed. They are hardly likely to make it less powerful if staying in the same class with the new car. I would like to quote my brother though. "It's not how fast it goes, it's how it gets there".
With more power and the hybrid drive train it's bound to be faster in the top end isn't it? Top end is really a by product now of the efficiant new vehicles we can buy. And that's across the board. I mean, I had a Kia Picanto 1 with a 900cc triple engine in it, flat out at 114mph for god sake!!
Caparo. Nice idea, but agreed, poorly executed.
With more power and the hybrid drive train it's bound to be faster in the top end isn't it? Top end is really a by product now of the efficiant new vehicles we can buy. And that's across the board. I mean, I had a Kia Picanto 1 with a 900cc triple engine in it, flat out at 114mph for god sake!!
Caparo. Nice idea, but agreed, poorly executed.
Edited by SevenR on Friday 8th August 11:57
Gather ye rosebuds while ye can!
I'd leave a little room to be excited about a new Veyron and Caparo if I were you.
There are people on here getting excited about the BMW i8 - the very harbinger of doom for all those who prefer high rpm to high processor speed.
The zenith of purely mechanical engineering has already come and gone.
The manual 911 GT3 is history, along with the manual Ferrari, Lamborghini and Aston Martin.
It's auto hybrids from here on in - if we're lucky.
I'd leave a little room to be excited about a new Veyron and Caparo if I were you.
There are people on here getting excited about the BMW i8 - the very harbinger of doom for all those who prefer high rpm to high processor speed.
The zenith of purely mechanical engineering has already come and gone.
The manual 911 GT3 is history, along with the manual Ferrari, Lamborghini and Aston Martin.
It's auto hybrids from here on in - if we're lucky.
Veyron:
Maybe it's that despite the mad stats VW will still somehow make it feel 'safe' rather than embrace the lunacy like Henessey?
Maybe it's because I have 10 times more respect for someone running an old Type 35 or similar? Having watched the Bugatti race at Goodwood earlier this year they have far bigger kahunas (including Mrs De Baldanza!)than any willy-waving Veyron fashion victim (who probably also wears their trousers far too high up the waist, Simon).
Maybe it's because I'm a curmudgeonly old git, and proud!
Maybe it's that despite the mad stats VW will still somehow make it feel 'safe' rather than embrace the lunacy like Henessey?
Maybe it's because I have 10 times more respect for someone running an old Type 35 or similar? Having watched the Bugatti race at Goodwood earlier this year they have far bigger kahunas (including Mrs De Baldanza!)than any willy-waving Veyron fashion victim (who probably also wears their trousers far too high up the waist, Simon).
Maybe it's because I'm a curmudgeonly old git, and proud!
Neither old models ever appealled in the slightest. I could never see any application or opportunity to enjoy the Caparo and always got the impression that the Veyron was just built to be seen cruzin' round in London.
My current cars are bordering on too fast for the road - as in if I want to stay legal I don't get very much time on the accelerator and need to slow for unsighted corners as much as anyone else. The shove in the back in great and I wouldn't want to not have at least one car that was quite powerful, but it's all over too quick and there isn't enough time to enjoy the engine sounds.
The appeal of >1000bhp cars just isn't there. I admire the technology of the P1, 918 and LaF but have no interest in driving one.
A new Veyron thing appeals even less.
My current cars are bordering on too fast for the road - as in if I want to stay legal I don't get very much time on the accelerator and need to slow for unsighted corners as much as anyone else. The shove in the back in great and I wouldn't want to not have at least one car that was quite powerful, but it's all over too quick and there isn't enough time to enjoy the engine sounds.
The appeal of >1000bhp cars just isn't there. I admire the technology of the P1, 918 and LaF but have no interest in driving one.
A new Veyron thing appeals even less.
I couldn't care less about a new T1 because I never liked the original, thought it was a pointless thing, as said here it was way too compromised for the road and too mental even for the track.
I'm massively excited about the Veyron replacement though, because if it's an improvement in all aspects on the old one that's surely no bad thing. If they've compromised its prestigious feel though in the name of speed then that'll bring the whole thing down.
I loved the orginal Veyron so much because not only was it the fastest road car in the world, it was also one of the most luxurious. it wasn't a stripped out street racer like a Venom or a McLaren F1, it was an extremely nice car to spend a long time in doing big long cross country drives.
The build quality and solidness of the thing was fantastic and it looked like it could easily do 100,000 miles. But it would also do 250mph if you wanted it to. There were other cars around at the time that were just as fast, but didn't have nearly the fit and finish and luxury feel of the Veyron.
If the new Bugatti has lost the "all round" approach of the old one and has become just another bare-essentials road rocket, then it's a step backwards regardless of whether it goes faster or not.
I'm massively excited about the Veyron replacement though, because if it's an improvement in all aspects on the old one that's surely no bad thing. If they've compromised its prestigious feel though in the name of speed then that'll bring the whole thing down.
I loved the orginal Veyron so much because not only was it the fastest road car in the world, it was also one of the most luxurious. it wasn't a stripped out street racer like a Venom or a McLaren F1, it was an extremely nice car to spend a long time in doing big long cross country drives.
The build quality and solidness of the thing was fantastic and it looked like it could easily do 100,000 miles. But it would also do 250mph if you wanted it to. There were other cars around at the time that were just as fast, but didn't have nearly the fit and finish and luxury feel of the Veyron.
If the new Bugatti has lost the "all round" approach of the old one and has become just another bare-essentials road rocket, then it's a step backwards regardless of whether it goes faster or not.
I would love to see a legislation that caps cars at a certain amount of hp. Say, 300 hp.
Yes, PH would be up in arms, but I believe that in the long term cars would get much more interesting with a level power playing field. Lighter, smaller, more nimble and more economic.
Instead we get a 8.0 liter 16 cylinder with a little bit of electric plugin hybrid range so the car will be tax free in many countries thanks to the idiotic "new european driving cycle".
Yes, PH would be up in arms, but I believe that in the long term cars would get much more interesting with a level power playing field. Lighter, smaller, more nimble and more economic.
Instead we get a 8.0 liter 16 cylinder with a little bit of electric plugin hybrid range so the car will be tax free in many countries thanks to the idiotic "new european driving cycle".
Speed is just a number, its the experience of the speed that counts.
My top speeds are:
Air: 580Mphish in a 777
Land - car: 160mph BMW M3 CSL
Land - Train: 180mph Japanes Shinkansen
Sea: 65mph 19ft Phamton, XR2 Merc (sitting on the fuel tank, with the motor 6 inches away from my head, making huge air off waves)
Quess which one felt the fastest, by a factor of about 10
My top speeds are:
Air: 580Mphish in a 777
Land - car: 160mph BMW M3 CSL
Land - Train: 180mph Japanes Shinkansen
Sea: 65mph 19ft Phamton, XR2 Merc (sitting on the fuel tank, with the motor 6 inches away from my head, making huge air off waves)
Quess which one felt the fastest, by a factor of about 10
Both symbolise engineering to excess for the sake of engineering to excess.
Bugatti combined it with "better" marketing but several zeros short of a bank balance for such a thing, I'm not swayed by the folly, it just made me more cold to it.
I remember reading an article about the exacting demands of their clients and chapter and verse about how this required a new design machined magnesium allow indicator stalk to meet their tactile needs.
Bugatti combined it with "better" marketing but several zeros short of a bank balance for such a thing, I'm not swayed by the folly, it just made me more cold to it.
I remember reading an article about the exacting demands of their clients and chapter and verse about how this required a new design machined magnesium allow indicator stalk to meet their tactile needs.
Look at the whole thing this way: Some people simply must have the very latest shiny thing. Whether it be a new Bug or this weeks new hatch. Which usually means they chop in the old one, taking a huge loss, then passing it on for others to pick up on the used market. I welcome as many people as possible to go out and buy the latest and greatest. More choice and more bargains for me when they sell them on.
As to the power thing, yes it is getting very daft. But hey ho. What can you do, aside from looking forward to picking up a used thousand horse shopping hatch for a tenner some point.
As to the power thing, yes it is getting very daft. But hey ho. What can you do, aside from looking forward to picking up a used thousand horse shopping hatch for a tenner some point.
Guys, the Veyron was, and still is an engineering masterpiece. Lets not get caught up in slagging off people who can afford one cause you can't. If you want to buy a Supercar and drive it at 1 tenth it's up to you. It's your car.
My point is, Bugatti want to claim to sell the best car in the world. So it's always going to get faster and more powerful than it's predecessor.
Cars like the i8 are the future for most though, and I for one would love to own one.
My point is, Bugatti want to claim to sell the best car in the world. So it's always going to get faster and more powerful than it's predecessor.
Cars like the i8 are the future for most though, and I for one would love to own one.
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