RE: New Aston Martin V12 teased
Sunday 17th January 2016
There has been much conjecture and speculation over just what the new era of Aston Martin will feature. How similar will they look to the DB10 and Vulcan? How much influence will the AMG partnership have? And will all DB11 customers be called Philippe?
New Aston Martin V12 teased
First new Aston engine will be a twin-turbo 5.2-litre - listen to it here!
Here is a very significant clue. It's a 30-second clip of the new V12 that's likely to make its debut in the DB11, moodily filmed while it's being revved. A useful teaser video for once!
The big news? Well, the stupid 'Emotional Control Unit' key is gone, replaced by a new start button. Oh yes, and it definitely still sounds like a V12. Slightly different to before perhaps, but still pretty good from here. No doubt there will be plenty of discussion forthcoming...
Nothing is confirmed on power yet, but a 5.2-litre twin-turbo V12 surely isn't going to be short of it. Given the old 5.9-litre V12 is at 573hp in the V12 Vantage S, is it unreasonable to expect 600hp?
The official description of this engine is that 'Aston Martin has developed a brand new 5.2-litre V12 twin-turbo engine', with absolutely no ties or relations to any Mercedes powerplants at all. Interesting... Expect more details when the DB11 is confirmed.
Does this sound good enough for an Aston V12? How closely related to an AMG engine will it be, if at all? Answers to follow soon; for now the forum awaits your thoughts!
Watch the video here.
Discussion
Was that noise recorded in an underground parking garage? Surely the point of the video is to reassure that the move to turbocharging hasn't reduced the aural Aston-ness.
However whilst it sounds like a good start, maybe in the metal it will be quieter (not in a tunnel) and surely there'll be some turbo whistle or whoosh somewhere in real driving conditions?
However whilst it sounds like a good start, maybe in the metal it will be quieter (not in a tunnel) and surely there'll be some turbo whistle or whoosh somewhere in real driving conditions?
No matter how much they try and spin it, AML is now a panel beater for AMG. "Aston Martin has developed a brand new 5.2-litre V12 twin-turbo engine". Really?
Like Jaguar, McLaren and even TVR, AML had an opportunity to make / use engines from the UK. However Dr Bez gave that prize to German Auto after failing to move all AML production out of the UK.
No doubt many PH'ers won't care and see these comments as insulting. However a couple of hundred engineering graduates should be annoyed he did what German Auto managers always do which is to take it home.
After all Cosworth is less than an hour away and Ricardo less than 3....
Fortunately there are many second hand Astons with Aston designed, non hair drier engines built at Ford Cologne by Aston workers. Not wholly Aston but better than a future with AMG, engines, electronics, mated to AMG supplier gearboxes and axles etc.
Though someone working for Aston did say the V8 and V12 would live on well into 2017.
Like Jaguar, McLaren and even TVR, AML had an opportunity to make / use engines from the UK. However Dr Bez gave that prize to German Auto after failing to move all AML production out of the UK.
No doubt many PH'ers won't care and see these comments as insulting. However a couple of hundred engineering graduates should be annoyed he did what German Auto managers always do which is to take it home.
After all Cosworth is less than an hour away and Ricardo less than 3....
Fortunately there are many second hand Astons with Aston designed, non hair drier engines built at Ford Cologne by Aston workers. Not wholly Aston but better than a future with AMG, engines, electronics, mated to AMG supplier gearboxes and axles etc.
Though someone working for Aston did say the V8 and V12 would live on well into 2017.
smilo996 said:
No matter how much they try and spin it, AML is now a panel beater for AMG. "Aston Martin has developed a brand new 5.2-litre V12 twin-turbo engine". Really?
Like Jaguar, McLaren and even TVR, AML had an opportunity to make / use engines from the UK. However Dr Bez gave that prize to German Auto after failing to move all AML production out of the UK.
No doubt many PH'ers won't care and see these comments as insulting. However a couple of hundred engineering graduates should be annoyed he did what German Auto managers always do which is to take it home.
After all Cosworth is less than an hour away and Ricardo less than 3....
Fortunately there are many second hand Astons with Aston designed, non hair drier engines built at Ford Cologne by Aston workers. Not wholly Aston but better than a future with AMG, engines, electronics, mated to AMG supplier gearboxes and axles etc.
Though someone working for Aston did say the V8 and V12 would live on well into 2017.
Completely agree - as great as the engine will be (I think AMG engines are some of the best there are), and as jaw-dropping beautiful the DB11 will undoubtely be, AM have sold their soul to the Devil in my opinion. I think you can already tell by the video that the engine note sounds muted by the turbos.Like Jaguar, McLaren and even TVR, AML had an opportunity to make / use engines from the UK. However Dr Bez gave that prize to German Auto after failing to move all AML production out of the UK.
No doubt many PH'ers won't care and see these comments as insulting. However a couple of hundred engineering graduates should be annoyed he did what German Auto managers always do which is to take it home.
After all Cosworth is less than an hour away and Ricardo less than 3....
Fortunately there are many second hand Astons with Aston designed, non hair drier engines built at Ford Cologne by Aston workers. Not wholly Aston but better than a future with AMG, engines, electronics, mated to AMG supplier gearboxes and axles etc.
Though someone working for Aston did say the V8 and V12 would live on well into 2017.
I still do think however, that AM will have a huge degree of input into the engine design. The gearboxes will no doubt be an almost generic affair - most likely a 8 speed ZF unit, or DCT, shared by god knows how many cars these days. For example the Ferrari F12 and SLS Black and both have exactly the same box, albeit Ferrari have put their own management system on it.
steve1386 said:
smilo996 said:
No matter how much they try and spin it, AML is now a panel beater for AMG. "Aston Martin has developed a brand new 5.2-litre V12 twin-turbo engine". Really?
Like Jaguar, McLaren and even TVR, AML had an opportunity to make / use engines from the UK. However Dr Bez gave that prize to German Auto after failing to move all AML production out of the UK.
No doubt many PH'ers won't care and see these comments as insulting. However a couple of hundred engineering graduates should be annoyed he did what German Auto managers always do which is to take it home.
After all Cosworth is less than an hour away and Ricardo less than 3....
Fortunately there are many second hand Astons with Aston designed, non hair drier engines built at Ford Cologne by Aston workers. Not wholly Aston but better than a future with AMG, engines, electronics, mated to AMG supplier gearboxes and axles etc.
Though someone working for Aston did say the V8 and V12 would live on well into 2017.
Completely agree - as great as the engine will be (I think AMG engines are some of the best there are), and as jaw-dropping beautiful the DB11 will undoubtely be, AM have sold their soul to the Devil in my opinion. I think you can already tell by the video that the engine note sounds muted by the turbos.Like Jaguar, McLaren and even TVR, AML had an opportunity to make / use engines from the UK. However Dr Bez gave that prize to German Auto after failing to move all AML production out of the UK.
No doubt many PH'ers won't care and see these comments as insulting. However a couple of hundred engineering graduates should be annoyed he did what German Auto managers always do which is to take it home.
After all Cosworth is less than an hour away and Ricardo less than 3....
Fortunately there are many second hand Astons with Aston designed, non hair drier engines built at Ford Cologne by Aston workers. Not wholly Aston but better than a future with AMG, engines, electronics, mated to AMG supplier gearboxes and axles etc.
Though someone working for Aston did say the V8 and V12 would live on well into 2017.
I still do think however, that AM will have a huge degree of input into the engine design. The gearboxes will no doubt be an almost generic affair - most likely a 8 speed ZF unit, or DCT, shared by god knows how many cars these days. For example the Ferrari F12 and SLS Black and both have exactly the same box, albeit Ferrari have put their own management system on it.
Most manufacturers buy in from established specialists items such as gearboxes and brakes. Going forward, other than the V8 AMG in some models, the only likely buy in from Mercedes/AMG is the electrical architecture - that's no different to the way Bentley or Lamborghini use Audi/VW group internal electronics. But there will be far more difference between Aston models and AMGs than say the Huracan and the R8. Going back to the V12 however, this is as much an Aston engine as the 5.9 V12 they have been using for the last 12 years or so
steve1386 said:
The gearboxes will no doubt be an almost generic affair - most likely a 8 speed ZF unit.
By no means necessarily a bad thing - the ZF 8-speed auto is a fantastic transmission if it's configured properly for the application in question. I've driven two Jaguars with it and they're buttery smooth as well as responsive.jonby said:
Whilst some models will use the V8 AMG twin turbo unit, as has been previously confirmed and commented upon, this 5.2 V12 twin turbo is a development of the existing 5.9 litre V12 and has quite literally, nothing to do with AMG
Most manufacturers buy in from established specialists items such as gearboxes and brakes. Going forward, other than the V8 AMG in some models, the only likely buy in from Mercedes/AMG is the electrical architecture - that's no different to the way Bentley or Lamborghini use Audi/VW group internal electronics. But there will be far more difference between Aston models and AMGs than say the Huracan and the R8. Going back to the V12 however, this is as much an Aston engine as the 5.9 V12 they have been using for the last 12 years or so
That ties in with the screenshot I have above to be fair! I dont think the Merc/AMG thing is bad at all personally. They have had some great cars the past 10-15 years but its time to move on and evolve. This is the most beneficial way to do so. Most manufacturers buy in from established specialists items such as gearboxes and brakes. Going forward, other than the V8 AMG in some models, the only likely buy in from Mercedes/AMG is the electrical architecture - that's no different to the way Bentley or Lamborghini use Audi/VW group internal electronics. But there will be far more difference between Aston models and AMGs than say the Huracan and the R8. Going back to the V12 however, this is as much an Aston engine as the 5.9 V12 they have been using for the last 12 years or so
smilo996 said:
Like Jaguar, McLaren and even TVR, AML had an opportunity to make / use engines from the UK. However Dr Bez gave that prize to German Auto after failing to move all AML production out of the UK.
No doubt many PH'ers won't care and see these comments as insulting. However a couple of hundred engineering graduates should be annoyed he did what German Auto managers always do which is to take it home.
After all Cosworth is less than an hour away and Ricardo less than 3....
Don't forget Prodrive too. Only 15mins from Gaydon.No doubt many PH'ers won't care and see these comments as insulting. However a couple of hundred engineering graduates should be annoyed he did what German Auto managers always do which is to take it home.
After all Cosworth is less than an hour away and Ricardo less than 3....
Prodrive obviously run Aston Martin Racing. Plus they developed the 800bhp 7litre V12 engine, drivetrain and electronics in the Vulcan. Oh and manufacture the Vulcan interior...
Like you pointed out, there's so much automotive engineering talent in the UK it's a real shame.
Personally I'd rather have an F-Type R over anything that Aston currently produces anyway.
I actually haven't any issue in AM borrowing parts from AMG if they're going to prove reliable. My Vanquish is full of Ford parts but they work and are proven to do so many hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of times.
Clearly there is a close relationship between AM and AMG but that's fine if the end result is something special. I have a new C63 with the bi turbo V8. Stick that engine as it is into a V8V and already you have something pretty special on your hands.
I also note that they're using the heater controls out of the C-Class. That's them just below the fire extinguisher pull on the passenger side of the transmission tunnel.
Clearly there is a close relationship between AM and AMG but that's fine if the end result is something special. I have a new C63 with the bi turbo V8. Stick that engine as it is into a V8V and already you have something pretty special on your hands.
I also note that they're using the heater controls out of the C-Class. That's them just below the fire extinguisher pull on the passenger side of the transmission tunnel.
8bit said:
steve1386 said:
The gearboxes will no doubt be an almost generic affair - most likely a 8 speed ZF unit.
By no means necessarily a bad thing - the ZF 8-speed auto is a fantastic transmission if it's configured properly for the application in question. I've driven two Jaguars with it and they're buttery smooth as well as responsive.
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