Pylon rear wing on GTR

[Davrianman]

I've been playing around with the idea of mounting a rear wing on my GTR with a pylon supported from the rear frame (same as the early sports).

Been having a play on a CAD system and modelled a basic idea.

Thinking of making it active too so it acts as an airbrake when braking. Done some quick calcs, and it could generate up to 330KG of braking load at high speed. No way you could react that through the bodywork, hence this concept...

What do you think? Good, bad or ugly! :-)

Cheers,
Mart

[BogBeast]

Looks good. Would you need that much meat of the wing pylon?

I guess you could hinge the botton part of the pylon where it mounts onto the chassis, secure the top part of the bracket with a good sized pip pin and then you could pivot it down if you wanted to open the rear clam.

Good thread on active rear wing: http://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep-75/active-rear...

[JoulesCanAm]

Personally I think aesthetically it does nothing for the lines of the Ultima, but if it's a case of function over form is your objective the point is mute. If supported by the rear frame, how does the clamshell open?

How much down force does the standard wing position provide and not sure why you couldn't have the active wing braking force react through the bodywork?

Julian

[Storer]

I may be wrong but I have found that the front is where the car needs more downforce as the front wheels lock first. The standard rear wing is fine, but making the rear wing a 'brake' would only increase the issue with front locking.

All IMO.

Paul

[F.C.]

Storer said:

I may be wrong but I have found that the front is where the car needs more downforce as the front wheels lock first. The standard rear wing is fine, but making the rear wing a 'brake' would only increase the issue with front locking.

All IMO.

Paul

+1

It would totally screw brake balance.

[deadscoob]

+2

[Davrianman]

Thanks for the replys chaps.

So how do cars with aero braking make it work then? The McClarens seem to do it very effectively.

To get access to the rear clam the pylons would need to be hinged. Was thinking Pit Pins or some kind of over centre latching system to locate it.

I'm still torn, but I do love the look of a big ass wing on a Sport. Not sure it looks right on a GTR though...

[845ste]

look is ugly

also for me, the problem is in front in circuit

[highflyer]

Looks good Martin but the pilons are way to thick, you could slim them down and include cross braces like the Sport had, I would attach the pilons to the rear of the car in a similar way as the Sport but it would mean attaching some kind of braces to the rear chassis of the car which may have to stick out proud of the rear bodywork ?
I would have been able to send some photos if it wasn't for the factory's sneaky tactics a couple of years ago.

[Ult-Jim]

I like the aggressive race car look with your positioning of the wing. However its the balance of downforce front to rear you should be considering and comparing to drag created. There are some useful youtube videos of wind tunnel experiments of rear wings & front splitters worth viewing, plus google and you will find some informative articles on-line. Your research should sway you to working on the front end. The correct length splitter is critical for aero balance, (downside is restriction on opening front clip). Combined with brake vents and wheel arch vents to releasing the high pressure buildup under the front wheel arch at speed.

[deadscoob]

Mclarens et al will work as they've been designed that way, an Ultima hasn't. You'd need to be able to effectively bring forward the rear biased braking you'd introduce - or perhaps emulate the Merc GT1 aerobatics at Le Mans .

If you do really want to do it, take a look at the new ford gt gt3 set up.

[V8Dom]

i started discussing this before christmas on

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

i too am looking at it but opening the rear clam a problem as the wing mounts fowl the clam unless you cut two slots in it or,cut clam, so rear section starts put and engine cover seperate like rusties old car.
the advantage of that is rear floor can be extented to a diffuser and rear wheel arches built so rear clam doesnt act like an huge air brake

got loads of photos of rusties car and am process of measuring everything.

also you will need front down force... good splitter plus some aero canards on the front clip

my idea is to move the wing further back too like this



dom

Edited by V8Dom on Saturday 16th January 18:15

[Davrianman]

That looks superb.

I've already got wheel vents fitted and a pair of front canards to go on. I haven't sorted a front splitter yet, but it's on the list for this year.

Here is how she looks at the moment...

[Davrianman]

Should add that the pylons in the CAD images are only a quick mock up. Real wing would be a single element with larger end plates. Think I'd like to lower it a little more, but I need to mock it up on the car to see how it affects the rear view from the mirrors... I'd do some FEA work in the pylons to size them correctly too. They will be braced to stop lateral movement.

[845ste]

it would be interesting opinion aerodynamic flows at high speed, by the factory, because it has conducted a study in the wind tunnel.
I saw that many owners open new air intakes of various types, in the bonnet and the rear....

only aesthetic or are really effective?

[Andy_mr2sc]

Davrianman said:

I've been playing around with the idea of mounting a rear wing on my GTR with a pylon supported from the rear frame (same as the early sports).

Been having a play on a CAD system and modelled a basic idea.

Thinking of making it active too so it acts as an airbrake when braking. Done some quick calcs, and it could generate up to 330KG of braking load at high speed. No way you could react that through the bodywork, hence this concept...

What do you think? Good, bad or ugly! :-)

Cheers,
Mart

As an aside did you drawer the original cad model of the car or did you find it on the www? I use Delcam software myself for cad/cam and appreciate the time and effort that has gone in to that!

Edited by Andy_mr2sc on Saturday 16th January 22:22

[deadscoob]

845
The vents are really effective.

Dom
The wing on Rustis car wasn't much further back than standard, plus his had far more front downforce and a lower cog than a normal Ultima, so I not think it's a simple thing to replicate.

[Storer]

Now before I start I should mention I have had a good deal of red wine, but....

Thinking out of the box, why do we put the wing at the back? If it creates downforce then why do we not put it in the middle of the car so that the downforce is evenly distributed over both axles!
Yes, it would look daft and we would loose some of the leverage effect. But are racing cars built as they are because of regulations? Would a wing in the middle of the car be more effective?

Discuss........


Paul

[F.C.]

Storer said:

Now before I start I should mention I have had a good deal of red wine, but....

Thinking out of the box, why do we put the wing at the back? If it creates downforce then why do we not put it in the middle of the car so that the downforce is evenly distributed over both axles!
Yes, it would look daft and we would loose some of the leverage effect. But are racing cars built as they are because of regulations? Would a wing in the middle of the car be more effective?

Discuss........


Paul

Been done.

See Ford RS 200, Lancia Stratos etc.

[Ult-Jim]

An interesting read:
http://trackdriver.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/201...

Ult-Jim