Wednesday 22nd June 2016

Honda Civic Type R generations: EP3 v. FN2 v. FK2

Let VTEC battle commence!

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So there was a little more to the Honda Hungaroring trip than witnessing a lap record. There was also opportunity to try the old Civic Type Rs on circuit; with a current FK2 having been on the PH Fleet since March, a true three-car comparison was long overdue.

Yes, it is just the three cars. Honda doesn't have an EK9, FD2 or the Japanese-spec EP3 with extra power and a limited-slip diff, so apologies to those expecting a full JDM VTEC extravaganza. Instead we have a late (2005) EP3 UK Civic Type R, a 2010 FN2 and the current FK2. Can a turbo Type R really excite? Does the EP3 feel like a relic? When does the VTEC really kick in? To the track!

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EP3 Civic Type R
'200hp for £16K!' screamed the coverlines on the EP3 Civic Type R's arrival. It's easy to forget what a big deal that was 15 years ago; not only was this the cheapest Type R ever offered (both the Accord and Integra were over £20K), it also looked great value in the hot hatch market.

As an impressionable pre-teen back then, and with Gran Turismo consuming every possible waking moment, the EP3 Civic Type R was a real hero car. It still is, in fact, so expectations were running high.

We start with low-speed tracking pics, but immediately the eagerness of that powertrain shines through. Having spent a while in the turbocharged car the way it responds to every little throttle input is joyous. Time to get rid of the photo car...

With the freedom of the circuit the EP3 can really be driven and - you've guessed it - the engine stars. It just keeps on revving and sounds feral, that glorious six-speed manual the perfect match. You will have heard all this before, but to have a naturally aspirated engine shriek to beyond 8,000rpm in a world where even Ferraris have to be turbocharged is just so exciting.

The handling is OK. This was a brief drive in Honda's heritage car but there's enough to sense some real agility and an eagerness from its relatively low mass. The Internet says the electric steering in facelifted cars like this one is improved on the original, but it still doesn't communicate enough about what's going on under the tyres. There's also a sense a contemporary Renaultsport product might have a little more finesse to the way it deals with bumps and changes in grip.

Still, the EP3 remains an absolute hoot, largely because of that powertrain. It may seem an obvious one for a track project but with good reason - can the FN2 match it?

EP3 onboard

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FN2 Civic Type R
There's a common belief , thanks in part to a certain television show, that the FN2 can't match the EP3's fun factor, that it's a poor relation and a rather duff Type R.

Sadly, while it would have been nice to confound those expectations, the later Civic is disappointing after the first UK Type R. The performance is still there if you work for it and the steering feel is improved, but elsewhere it struggles to move the fast Honda game on.

Even on a circuit it feels stiffer than the EP3 but also oddly inert as well. The keenness from the older car is gone, replaced with a balance set to understeer and not a lot else. This isn't at far fetched journalist-trying-to-be-a-racer speeds either, as the laptimes aren't dissimilar to the older car. It wants to push almost as soon as you've turned in, which just isn't fun. Sadly the Mugen that promised so much on the road isn't available in Hungary, because it would surely have shown off the FN2 era in a far better light. As it stands the FN2 will remain the unloved Type R, even in this later specification with the limited-slip diff from the Championship White limited edition. This one looks rather fun with 350hp though...

FN2 onboard

 

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FK2 Civic Type R
Now it gets serious. Yes, we've driven the current Type R on track in quite a few situations, but to compare it back-to-back with its predecessors reveals starkly just how far this car has moved the Civic on.

The FK2 Civic Type R always feels fast, but in the company of the other two it's savagely rapid. It's pulling so much harder from much lower down that the lack of a bonkers top end feels almost worth it for the massive increase in performance. Almost.

The gearbox is still fantastic, the brakes on another planet compared to the other two and traction better than the FN2 despite twice the torque. It's an absolute animal on the circuit, hugely composed over the Hungaronring's bumps and goading you into ever more optimistic brake and turn-in points. Yes, the tyres may not be as sticky as true track heroes would like and, yes, a Megane is probably more playful, but as a demonstration of how fast front-wheel drive can be the Type R is sublime.

It's interesting to note too the similarities between the cars too. In all three the gearbox is great and the steering wheel very good (despite the introduction of more buttons), but the seat always a little too high. While we're on gripes it's sad to report how much worse visibility is; it feels like there's acres of glass in the EP3 and a great view everywhere, which gradually declines with the FN2 and the current car as the spaceship design, er, took off. Shame.

FK2 onboard

 

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Verdict
Given the age and value gap between these three, this was never going to be a conventional triple test. More it was to see how far the Civic Type R has evolved in 15 years, where it has been good and where it could have improved.

The EP3 is a right giggle; perhaps it’s not the most finely wrought hot hatch around but there’s sufficient excitement as standard and plenty of potential too. I’d love to try one of the Japanese cars with the limited-slip diff and additional power, just to see if it’s good as Gran Turismo suggested. Hopefully the seat has been dropped in that one too…

The FN2 does feel like a backwards step sadly. Perhaps that would have been different with the Mugen but then that was nearly £40K when new – it’s a significantly more focused car. If you really can’t stand the looks of the original car then go for the FN2, but otherwise it’s quite hard to recommend. Sorry.

The current car feels about three generations on from the FN2; not simply in terms of performance but in the way it feels so much more better built and structurally rigid too. It’s a different kind of car to those that preceded it, but arguably a more complete and competitive hot hatch than it’s ever been.

This Civic Type R can learn some things from the old ones though. It needs better throttle response, for starters, but a few more revs would be good as well. Of course we won’t get 9,000rpm again, but for now the Type R doesn’t really rev any higher than its rivals. The engine feels really keen, and a redline of 7,500rpm would give it a selling point over its numerous competitors. That being said, for Honda to have returned to the Civic Type R with a car so far improved from the one before it is to be applauded. Let’s hope the progress continues over the next 15 years.

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HONDA CIVIC TYPE R (EP3)
Engine: 1,998cc, 4-cyl
Transmission: 6-speed manual, front-wheel drive
Power (hp): 200@7,400rpm
Torque (lb ft): 145@5,900rpm
0-62mph: 6.6sec
Top speed: 146mph
Weight: N/A
MPG: 31.7
CO2: 212g/km
Price: £15,995 (2001)

HONDA CIVIC TYPE R (FN2)
Engine: 1,998cc 4-cyl 
Transmission: 6-speed manual, front-wheel drive
Power (hp): 201@7,800rpm
Torque (lb ft): 142@5,600rpm
0-62mph: 6.6sec
Top speed: 146mph
Weight: N/A
MPG: 31
CO2: 215g/km
Price: £17,600 (2007)

HONDA CIVIC TYPE R (FK2)
Engine: 1,996cc 4-cyl turbo
Transmission: 6-speed manual, front-wheel drive
Power (hp): 310@6,500rpm
Torque (lb ft): 295@2,500-4,500rpm
0-62mph: 5.7 sec 
Top speed: 167mph
Weight: 1,467kg (Honda figure, with fluids and driver)
MPG: 38.7mpg (Honda internal figure)
CO2: 170g/km (Honda internal figure)  
Price: £29,995

[giveablondeabone]

I always found the steering pretty dreadful on my old EP3

Like driving around a 50p every time it loaded up

[Dave Hedgehog]

my EP3 was the cheapest new car i ever ran, £15,500 new, £12,500 px 2 years old with 28k on the clock

stunning engine and gearbox when playing, meh to drive as a normal car

[Relax]

I think the trouble with the ep3 and other type r ( normally aspirated) is that unless you drive them fast towards a safe limit you will never appreciate what they are all about, I own a low miles ep3 and it is in my opinion leaps and bounds ahead of the Leon cupra r I owned before it. Point being that to most people that went in or drove the two they couldn't appreciate the civics quality as a drivers car and were won over by leather and torque of the leon, I couldn't get the ride and body roll out of my mind though with the Leon, not the best. With the civic as a driver you gotta love the sound and way it all works together In my opinion .

[buckline]

I loved my Deep Bronze FN2. Top Gear Magazine had it at the top of the pile of in a group test about March 2007. Shortly after i stuck my name down on the list and 6 months of agony later arrive my first "fast car". I still hanker after it today despite the luke warm reviews its receiving retrospectively.

[Relax]

I never drove the fn2 but have driven 2 integra type r 's and also owned the accord r which I thought was terrific

[bobski1]

Loved the EP3, probably the last of the best NA type Rs

[Martin_Hx]

Shes was 10 earlier this year! Had it since *almost* new.

Love driving it every day, even if its just the commute to work and back, around 66k miles now i think . Does need an Italian tune up every few weeks though



Would i have the new FK... definately... would i sell my EP3? I don't think i could... was my first proper car! Im quite attached

Edited by Martin_Hx on Wednesday 22 June 15:54

[dasbimmerowner]

P/x'd my EP3 back in the day. Someone out there got lucky, as it had Toda valve springs, a Hondata ECU and a rev limiter set at 9200rpm (which was apparently safe thanks to the valve train upgrade). I probably should have removed various bits, but simply couldn't be bothered. Bloody lethal on wet roads mind you.

[Butter Face]

Nice write up. The EP3 is still a great car, I love my prefacelift (much nicer looking and less fussy than a facelift IMO) and all you need is a bit more power and some tweaks to the suspension to make them a lot more enjoyable.

Mine is rotrex supercharged and is a great fast drivable car now.

[HJMS123]

Martin_Hx said:

Shes was 10 earlier this year! Had it since *almost* new.

Love driving it every day, even if its just the commute to work and back, around 66k miles now i think . Does need an Italian tune up every few weeks though



Would i have the new FK... definately... would i sell my EP3? I don't think i could... was my first proper car! Im quite attached

Edited by Martin_Hx on Wednesday 22 June 15:54

I've never seen a 06 plate before on an EP3 only 55 plates ... looks lovely btw!

[Axionknight]

I have an FK2 and a friend of mines owns an FN2 - I think it's a great car despite the stick it seemed to get, usable, quick, fun, spacious and it doesn't cost the earth to run, it looks pretty sharp too, just avoid the 19" alloys like the plague, they ruin the ride.

The EP3 always seemed a bit dead in the steering department to me, it's a great car apart from that though and they can be had for peanuts now, but I'd be going over any I intended to buy with a fine tooth comb as loads of them have been ragged.

Good read

[Black S2K]

Having driven the FK and FN back-to-back on the track, I found that despite the former's stunning abilities I couldn't really enjoy it or get into a decent rhythm because of the turbo lag.

I actually found it easier to drive the allegedly crappy FN like I stole it. I really wasn't expecting that!

[Touringforfun]

I had a '53 reg EP3 from new. At the time it was the best hot hatch I test drove. As mentioned the gearbox and engine were fantastic. The only thing I didn't like about it was the steering particularly around the centre point. It had a sticky feeling that just used to annoy the hell out of me.

[caelite]

Love civics type Rs, Im one of the few who was never a fan of the EP3's looks but LOVE the FN2, I love the cockroach shape, funky interior & triangle exhausts

[RacingBlue]

I had an FN2 for around a year and a half. Never gelled with it - the ride did my head in, build quality was pretty poor, and it generally felt heavy and lumpen. I chopped it in for a new Fiesta ST and haven't looked back.

I'm disappointed it was so rubbish - I still love the looks and was determined to like it despite the crap reviews. Unfortunately, they're all correct.

[Turkish91]

One thing I'd be keen to see is a charged EP3 with an LSD against the FK around a track with two quality drivers. Similar power and good traction with the diff... 10 years and probably £20k difference in price but I reckon they'd be pretty on par!

[Mastodon2]

Relax said:

I think the trouble with the ep3 and other type r ( normally aspirated) is that unless you drive them fast towards a safe limit you will never appreciate what they are all about, I own a low miles ep3 and it is in my opinion leaps and bounds ahead of the Leon cupra r I owned before it. Point being that to most people that went in or drove the two they couldn't appreciate the civics quality as a drivers car and were won over by leather and torque of the leon, I couldn't get the ride and body roll out of my mind though with the Leon, not the best. With the civic as a driver you gotta love the sound and way it all works together In my opinion .

I also went from a Leon Cupra R, a 225 model modded up to 280ish bhp. It was a straightline hero and a nice car in it's own right, but nothing like the thrill that the EP3 could deliver when punting it down the road, engine screaming away. I loved the lightness and the front end grip of the EP3 too, it could tear off a roundabout, throttle wide open, lifting the inside rear wheel and still feel completely composed and so easy to place where you wanted it. I miss that car so much, if I didn't have a litre bike for fun these days I'd probably get another Type R.

[Butter Face]

Turkish91 said:

One thing I'd be keen to see is a charged EP3 with an LSD against the FK around a track with two quality drivers. Similar power and good traction with the diff... 10 years and probably £20k difference in price but I reckon they'd be pretty on par!

I think you'd be right. I need to get an LSD on mine ASAP as it will make it a lot more fun to drive and get the power down.

[rossub]

Love my JDM EP3. The most fun car I've owned in 22 years of driving and knocks the socks off the FN2 I had.

Just 40k miles now...

IMG_6122a by Ross Davidson, on Flickr

[Mr2Mike]

giveablondeabone said:

I always found the steering pretty dreadful on my old EP3

Like driving around a 50p every time it loaded up

Then the rack is poorly. Mine was the same until I stripped it down and machined the nylon gear to eliminate any binding, it now centres perfectly, no sticking at all and is a joy a drive.