RE: Surrender monkeys: PH Blog
Tuesday 14th March 2017
I should be so over it now but I STILL can't quite believe Citroen powered Sebastien Loeb to nine consecutive WRC titles and never thought to give us a celebratory road car worthy of his name or achievements. And, no, the C2 and C4 'by Loeb' don't count. Meanwhile after just two outings back in the WRC - the first a podium and the second a victory - Toyota last week revealed a proper hot hatch version of the Yaris, complete with a 205hp supercharged engine, Sachs dampers and a limited-slip diff.
Yep, this really did happen!It's a little early in the season to say whether this car will gain signature Latvala or Hanninen editions to follow in the great tradition of the McRae, Burns and Solberg Imprezas, the Sainz Celica GT-Four or Evo VI Makinen, but it's great to see Toyota getting in there quickly with a road car that celebrates motorsport success. The GRMN badge (Gazoo Racing Meister of the Nurburgring, in case you hadn't heard) is a welcome and wacky new addition to the hot hatch lexicon too - I hope it gains the romantic mystique we all associate with badges like Type R, RS, Rallye, Cupra and - of course - GTI.
It's good, but it could be better...With the honourable exception of Peugeot and its old-school diff'n'turbo enhanced By Peugeot Sport 208 and 308 GTIs it's the French who really seem to have missed a trick here. Citroen hasn't given us a proper hot hatch since the AX GT or hot Saxos while Renault Sport teased us with a manual gearbox and diff equipped Clio, only to pull the plug. The 220 Trophy Matt drove recently is a cracking hot hatch with more to recommend than most people might assume. But with the shadow of the R.S.16 looming over it there will always be a sense of what might have been. That Renault had such an enduring winning streak across three generations of hot Clios and created a huge fanbase off the back of it just makes it even the more frustrating. Sure, they'll say more Renault Sports than ever are selling and to a wider range of customers than before. But why alienate the hardcore fans in the process? I'll defend the Clio as misunderstood and underrated - because it is both. But it'll never quite inspire me like the Williams, my old 172 Cup, the 182 Trophy, or the 197 I ran as a long-termer a few years back.
Surrender monkeys: PH Blog
How a Yaris - a Yaris! - shows all that's wrong with French hot hatches
Yep, this really did happen!
From the outside it seems like such a simple exercise too - take one supermini, sling a load of motorsport-inspired bits at it, give it a power boost, put some stickers on it and reap the rewards. That it's come from Toyota of all people is perhaps the surprise.
After all, Ford never quite went full RS with the Fiesta ST, leaving it instead to M-Sport to do pretty much what GRMN has done to the Yaris. Justifiably it perhaps thought enough STs were flying out of the showrooms as was (or with a little boost from Mountune) not to have to trouble itself.
It's good, but it could be better...
OK, we haven't driven the Yaris GRMN yet. But on paper the ingredients are there for exactly the kind of enthusiast-focused hot hatch - complete with some motorsport provenance - that can inspire a future generation of fanboys.
And I never thought I'd ever say that about a Yaris.
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Discussion
Good on Toyota for this. I was watching the WRC highlights last night and thought that the thing that was missing was the link to a road version of the cars.
Clearly we aren't going to get a spaceframed WRC car for the road but it struck me that noise aside, this was what Group B (oh no, not group b again) gave that the current cars don't.
The current cars engine sounds are all a bit similar and misses the quality of a 6R4 or quattro at full chat but a tangible link to a genuine road car is what's currently missing.
We know what viewers want as the 80's proves, it just needs the FIA to make it so.
Clearly we aren't going to get a spaceframed WRC car for the road but it struck me that noise aside, this was what Group B (oh no, not group b again) gave that the current cars don't.
The current cars engine sounds are all a bit similar and misses the quality of a 6R4 or quattro at full chat but a tangible link to a genuine road car is what's currently missing.
We know what viewers want as the 80's proves, it just needs the FIA to make it so.
People salivating over a supercharger, LSD and inexplicably, Sachs dampers need to realise it won't make it any faster or any better to drive than an outgoing Fiesta ST. Let's just wait til the thing is on the roads before deciding it's greater than the sum of it's parts.
Fair do's.
Fair do's.
Edited by RumbleOfThunder on Tuesday 14th March 16:44
RumbleOfThunder said:
People... ...need to realise it won't make it any faster or any better to drive than an outgoing Fiesta ST. Let's just wait til the thing is on the roads before deciding it's greater than the sum of it's parts.
Conversely, people should wait till it's on the roads before deciding it won't be any faster or better to drive than an outgoing Fiesta ST It really doesn't need 4 pot calipers, does it?
Sachs dampers come in many different forms, budget OE and super fancy aftermarket. A lot of cars come with Sachs dampers! Using them in the context PH has here is akin to lauding a push bike because it has Shimano gears on it.
Sachs dampers come in many different forms, budget OE and super fancy aftermarket. A lot of cars come with Sachs dampers! Using them in the context PH has here is akin to lauding a push bike because it has Shimano gears on it.
Edited by lee_erm on Tuesday 14th March 16:34
As a former owner of 3 Toyota MR2 Mark 1's in various forms and a AE82 powered Corrola GTi - 16 we forget how great the product line up was from Toyota in the late 80's and early 90's. Original GT86's, celica, corolla wrc, supra etc!
Toyota can pull this off! The interior will probably lag the competition. But the product itself and the drive it provides can be world class! I'll buy this yaris!
Toyota can pull this off! The interior will probably lag the competition. But the product itself and the drive it provides can be world class! I'll buy this yaris!
lee_erm said:
It really doesn't need 4 pot calipers, does it?
Sachs dampers come in many different forms, budget OE and super fancy aftermarket. A lot of cars come with Sachs dampers! Using them in the context PH has here is akin to lauding a push bike because it has Shimano gears on it.
Yeah the Sachs dampers bit puzzled me. Ermergerd, it's got Pirelli tyres like an F1 car. Sachs dampers come in many different forms, budget OE and super fancy aftermarket. A lot of cars come with Sachs dampers! Using them in the context PH has here is akin to lauding a push bike because it has Shimano gears on it.
Edited by lee_erm on Tuesday 14th March 16:34
I'm sorry, what?
Renault were still fairly recently doing a stripped out, sub 8 min, bucket seat & harness fitted hatch with tricked out composite Ohlins suspension... and no rear seats. If you have an issue with the Clio (which I understand), that's fine, but saying all hope is lost would be an overgeneralisation, I'd say.
Renault were still fairly recently doing a stripped out, sub 8 min, bucket seat & harness fitted hatch with tricked out composite Ohlins suspension... and no rear seats. If you have an issue with the Clio (which I understand), that's fine, but saying all hope is lost would be an overgeneralisation, I'd say.
MustardCutter said:
RumbleOfThunder said:
People... ...need to realise it won't make it any faster or any better to drive than an outgoing Fiesta ST. Let's just wait til the thing is on the roads before deciding it's greater than the sum of it's parts.
Conversely, people should wait till it's on the roads before deciding it won't be any faster or better to drive than an outgoing Fiesta ST It's the lack of interestingness in the next segment down that amazes me more. A slightly fettled C1/107/Aygo or Citigo/Up/Mii would be most welcome, but all of them seemed to have dragged their heels forever in actually doing it.
Incredible lack of interesting cars around the size that hot hatches were once upon a time. I don't mean 200bhp either, 100-120bhp would be more than enough for a fun car in the super mini segment.
Incredible lack of interesting cars around the size that hot hatches were once upon a time. I don't mean 200bhp either, 100-120bhp would be more than enough for a fun car in the super mini segment.
DSGbangs said:
I'm sorry, but the saxo was never a 'hot hatch' just an ultimate barry mobile, contrary to what 'shed' says.
Otherwise, Good work toyota, just keep the price down!
What a crock of sOtherwise, Good work toyota, just keep the price down!
t, the VTS was indeed a hot hatch and it was a brilliant drive too. Shame it's remembered for the battering it's image took from the chav contingent. The discerning driver remembers it for it's amazing handling and balance, and not forgetting that the 106 shell has fielded many great hot hatches...Actually been expecting something like this for quite a while but always thought they would go for a warm/cooking model with a fettled version of the 1.2 turbo rather than aim for the top of the tree straight off the bat. Well done Toyota. Gt86, now this, soon we will have the BMW collaboration car, are we heading for Toyotas second golden era? As a long time Toyota enthusiast, I've not been as excited about the brand for over 20 years
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