Wednesday 29th March 2017

50 limits by the back door: PH Blog

Public consultation to lower M1 speed limits said no thanks - new gantries enforce them anyway

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Is there anything worse than trundling through seemingly endless 50-limited roadworks, wondering whether it's better to sit with an HGV on your bumper on his 55mph limiter or be boxed into his blindspot for the next 10 miles in the outside lane?

Yes, it turns out.

That's driving the same section of road, freshly resurfaced, reopened to its full width, fully lit and equipped with the latest in active signage, CCTV monitoring and camera speed enforcement... and still be limited to 50mph. This after two years of hold ups, random junction closures and a cost of £106.1m for just one 10-mile stretch. I'm not usually given to anti-government ranting on the basis it's for angry people browsing Twitter in their underpants. But seeing as I've got a platform...

The section of road I refer to is the M1 past Sheffield, regular users of which will know has been among the vast tracts of motorway being slowly and expensively upgraded to 'smart' status. The argument made for such roads is they actually do manage traffic flow at busy times.

I'm still willing to be proven wrong. But from a driver's perspective, the manipulation sometimes seems haphazard and nonsensical and the continuously changing limits actually make motorway driving considerably more stressful. Conspiracy theories range from this being about installing toll infrastructure on the stealth to back-door enforcement of blanket lower speed limits. The latter may yet have some truth to it.

Take the newly opened section between junction 35 and junction 28a. There was a public consultation on a lowered 60mph limit for the section, improved air quality the supposed goal. Despite the fact the most polluting vehicles and ones running closest to residential areas beside the motorway - namely HGVs - are already limited to less than this. To quote the report: "The consultation has shown widespread opposition to the proposal and the Secretary of State has rejected this approach as the Government's preferred mitigation option."

The consultation surveyed local residents, businesses and campaign groups, with a 95 per cent majority rejecting the proposal on all grounds, including the suggested improvement in air quality. "If any proposals continue to include varying speed limits, they must only apply when absolutely necessary," states one of the conclusions.

The smart motorway upgrade was completed a few weeks ago, the last section being that between junction 35 and the M18 intersection at junction 32. I use it several times a week at all times of the day and have yet to see it with anything other than a 50 limit imposed via the spangly new gantries. So having consulted interested parties and been told resoundingly that nobody wanted a reduced 60mph limit and the grounds for suggesting it were not proven Highways England is now remotely enforcing a lower one anyway.

I actually think most of us are respectful of speed limits. But that needs to go both ways and limits have to be credible and applied in a way that make sense to the majority who just want to get about, get home and not kill anyone in the process. Break that trust and you turn everyone against The Man, be that through embittered and grudging obedience. Or simply not giving a flying one, by whatever means. And that will not make our motorways happier - or safer - places.

One example of seemingly daft enforcement on this section sums it up for me. Trundling south at a gantry enforced 50mph traffic joining from the 70-limited M18 was piling onto the M1 carrying an extra 20-30mph, before slamming on the anchors on seeing '50' on the first gantry. While trying to filter. Yet the next one, within sight, was set to NSL so everyone already on the M1 was speeding back up. The next? Back to 50. Another sea of brake lights, lane jostling and any number of potential shunts between those paying attention, those not and those who simply don't care. I'm in danger of sounding like a stuck record but please, someone, tell me what's smart about this?

Dan

Photos: Highways England, via Flickr

[Sources: Highways.gov.uk, nationalarchives.gov.uk]

[nicfaz]

I have to agree - smart motorways might have more support if they didn't look like they were being operated by pre-school children on work experience.

[Anubis]

If you treat people like idiots they will act like idiots. Like your article says - it's about trusting the public and I'd like to think the majority adhere to the limits.

If you impose something on to innocent people you'll likely have an opposite desired outcome. Maybe this is what it's really about though; catching people 'speeding' (is 56MPH really speeding on a road like this during normal conditions? I don't think so).

Personally I agree with you 100% - it is much more dangerous. The amount of times I see people suddenly hit the brakes because of this type of system - no wonder you see people having collisions; one minute they are looking at their speed so the "all seeing eyes" don't catch you and suddenly red brake lights appear in front of you and it's too late.

As my driving instructor said all those years ago - the danger is out there in front of you; not in the car. Concentrate on the driving and not the gadgets inside.

Edited by Anubis on Wednesday 29th March 14:52

[Hackney]

Just as they're coming to the end of the roadworks south of the M6 junction another section starts from J23 to J25

Pretty much my entire regular journey (J13 to J24 or J27) will be on managed motorways or roadworks. Brilliant.

As per another thread, the problem is people who speed and then brake hard for the gantries (regardless of whether there's a camera or not)

[caelite]

If this was any other country there would be a terrible accident involving every single camera gantry along the route sometime in the dead of night and the motoring public would continue to follow their own ideals of safety and live(or drive ) happily ever after without the state appointed nanny looking over their shoulder.

Sadly people in the UK are far to compliant for such actions to take effect. We're nearly as bad as the bloody Germans nowadays, but at least they have effective and vaguely sensible governance.

[RumbleOfThunder]

By coincidence, I drove part of this stretch last night coming back from Meadowhall. It's infuriating sat like fking lemons at 50mph in light traffic.

[RobGT81]

NSL-50-40-NSL-40-60-50-NSL-30-60-40-NSL

[CupMeister]

I agree 100% we've recently had a stretch of the M4 in Newport converted and there doesn't seem anything smart about it at all. The system is contrived creating a traffic density that just wouldn't exist with out the limits imposed. It often results in cars packed nose to tail and very little space for motorists trying to join from junctions. Now, I understand the idea behind the concept and with the Brynglas tunnels in Newport causing a natural bottle neck it's a sound enough idea. As with many of these things it's the execution that's lacking, and a good deal of fine tuning and no small amount of common sense could improve things massively.

[spikyone]

Dan said:

limits have to be credible and applied in a way that make sense to the majority who just want to get about, get home and not kill anyone in the process. Break that trust and you turn everyone against The Man

Nail, head. I drove around the M25 on Monday, at what I expected to be rush hour (some time between 5-6pm), from J28 to J15. Twice I came across sets of gantries showing 60,40,40,NSL, with no good reason for either set of restrictions. I've read the comments previously on PH about operators having to be certain that any reported incident is clear before restrictions can be lifted, but when you're trundling along in traffic that's flowing almost entirely freely and see these reduced limits they appear to have been set completely arbitrarily. It doesn't help that the reduced limits are coupled with cameras; the system seems intent on catching out the unwary rather than modifying the behaviour of those doing something truly dangerous.

Has there ever been any independent review of safety statistics, and whether these managed sections do anything to reduce KSI numbers? I suppose they may reduce minor bumps, but equally can see how traffic braking to 40 for the cameras then immediately speeding up because the road is obviously clear could cause a few accidents.

[3795mpower]

The south west section of the M25 has become a dangerous joke.
It consists of 4-5 lanes of traffic all doing the same speed & everyone staring at their speedo
Rather than looking ahead.

You end up with twice the congestion because people just sit 4 lanes out & block all the lanes up.

It's cr*p.

[AndySheff]

That stretch of the M1 has been, and still is a fking nightmare.

[Merry]

spikyone said:

Twice I came across sets of gantries showing 60,40,40,NSL, with no good reason for either set of restrictions.

Totally agree with all the points to you make, but I'd always assumed when this happened its the controller seeking to limit the impact of a brake ripple causing a tailback, therefore keeping traffic moving (albeit at a slower pace). Whether it works or not is another matter!

[Watchman]

Couldn't someone at PH request an answer to this from govt or the Highways Agency?

[saaby93]

Its been answered before
It isnt smart - it monitors traffic speeds so if it thinks traffic is going slower it lowers the limit which slows traffic etc

Can we stop calling them smart please

[Dan Trent]

Watchman said:

Couldn't someone at PH request an answer to this from govt or the Highways Agency?

I tagged them in the Tweet promoting the story and experience shows they do tend to respond! I came close to getting a session in the control room after my previous rant and need to get that conversation going again as I'm genuinely curious to see how it works from 'the other side'. I also know there are some PHers who work in these places who often throw in some valuable insight to the conversation.

As ever I'm willing to accept there are two sides to the story and the one from the operators/agencies rarely gets heard. To which I'll say give me the access and I'll give you the platform!

Cheers,

Dan

[bodhi]

On the other hand, the new managed motorway near me (M6 J13 to J10) hardly ever seems to show a reduced limit, and since the work was completed about 6 months ago, I have still never seen one of the newly installed cameras flash, despite seeing some people making progress through that section.

The extra lane has been a waste of time though, as everyone just sits in Lane 3 like a lemon, rather than before when they did it in Lane 2.

[Cotic]

Watchman said:

Couldn't someone at PH request an answer to this from govt or the Highways Agency?

Exactly. Isn't this within your powers? Just spend a day at the Highways Agency control room, and then report back on whether it's children, chimps, or angry, embittered computer algorithms at the controls.

Pesonally, I'm a fan on how the section of the M42 is run - it's an improvement. Even so, on Monday the gantry had all four lanes at 60 with a contradictory 'hard shoulder for emergency only' sign lit.

• *edit*** Sorry Dan - crossed posts...

Edited by Cotic on Wednesday 29th March 15:56

[Spannerski]

Were long past governments putting in legislation and laws to protect us.
It's all about controlling us and protecting certain sectors of the establishments.
(Insert favourite conspiracy theory here ----------)

[chrisga]

I think smart motorways are the equivalent of traffic lights on roundabouts. Complicating the simplest things with technology to try to control the proles, despite the fact that when left to our own devices we have shown we can actually cope.
I pass over a number of larger roundabouts controlled by traffic lights on my commute and very occasionally the traffic lights are broken. I can usually tell when this is as there are no queues approaching them because everyone has sorted themselves out and just got on with using the rules of the road.

The ever changing limits on smart motorways seems to cause people to brake at gantries regardless of limit and bunch up to stop people lane changing. It seems to me more often than not when the limits on the same stretch of road are off, everyone just goes about their business and get on with driving to the conditions. The worst bit about smart motorways near me is that they have occasional hard shoulder running. Which catches loads of people out. When its off people are in the hard shoulder and when its on people don't go in it in case its off, or just for the next junction etc etc. And then if there is ever an incident when hard shoulder running is on none of the emergency services can get there easily as the hard shoulder is blocked too. Just leave well alone. I'd wager the M40 runs smoothly above the average national speed limit for the majority of the time with none of this smart nonsense and people manage fine.

[Debaser]

I hate smart motorways. Several times I've been driving along an empty motorway (with the gantry speed limit signs off) to be met by a solitary gantry showing 40.

Also, what is the delay between the signs illuminating, and the cameras working? If a gantry lit up with a speed limit as you passed under, would the camera flash?

[julian64]

why isn't 'opulentbob' on this thread already telling people that the reasons behind smart roads are far too complicated for drivers to understand let alone question.

If he doesn't get here soon I'm going to rate this thread as a 2/10.