RE: Audi R8 V10 Plus: Spotted
Tuesday 13th June 2017
While it may seem an obvious point to make, manual supercars really are disappearing rather fast. There's not a single manual Ferrari or Lamborghini offered now where there was a few years ago, and the really fast Porsches are typically moving towards automatics as well - look at the new GT2 RS, for example.
Looks like any other R8...Now although this has made certain cars more accessible to more people, there will remain a core of enthusiasts for whom the lack of a manual transmission is a disappointment. Of course it's hard to make the business case with an option that sells in such small numbers - and it's tricky to justify as cars get even quicker - but, still, it's upsetting in certain cases.
... but don't forget about this bit!So how many people do you think took Audi up on the offer of a manual supercar? With doors appearing to close on manuals back then, surely people would have rushed forwards? Erm, no. There was one registered in 2012 (against 75 S Tronic cars) and now just 10 are said to be on UK roads, according to HowManyLeft.
Audi R8 V10 Plus: Spotted
Probably the best R8 that ever there was, and with a manual gearbox too
Looks like any other R8...
Take the Audi R8. There's no longer a manual option, which is a crying shame given a) that it was so good before b), that models more powerful than the current car were previously offered with it and c), however good the dual-clutch is - and it is excellent - the old manual was even more enjoyable.
The V10 Plus is that first-gen R8 that you could have as a manual and which is more powerful - just - than the current 540hp R8 V10. It was introduced nearly five years ago as part of the original car's final facelift before the current model was launched; along with the additional power, the Plus also got reworked springs, dampers and suspension geometry. A unique wheel design sat in front of standard carbon ceramic brakes for the Plus as well.
And it was manual! That lovely, precise, click-clack six-speed was standard fitment on this 550hp supercar. What a novelty. Indeed the S Tronic dual-clutch was another £3,000 (£127,575 vs. £124,675), although it did improve acceleration and mpg.
... but don't forget about this bit!
Which makes this car very rare indeed. It's a very late V10 Plus, registered the same year that the current car was launched, with very low mileage of just 4K too; these will go some way to justifying the £90,000 asking price. Predictably enough given it's only covered 2,000 miles a year since 2015 this R8 looks fab, even if matt blue paint won't be to all tastes.
And for some perspective on what good value - all things being relative - the R8 represents, this Gallardo is more than a decade older, has six times the mileage, 50 less horsepower and it only £5K cheaper. The R8 may not have the most glamorous badge, but has a driving experience it certainly deserves to rank up with the best. As a V10 Plus manual, there's genuine supercar drama and rarity to go with it as well. Here's one to save from a collection!
AUDI R8 V10 PLUS
Engine: 5,204cc, V10
Transmission: 6-speed manual, all-wheel drive
Power (hp): 550@8,000rpm
Torque (lb ft): 398@6,500rpm
MPG: 19.0
CO2: 346g/km
Recorded mileage: 4,000
Year registered: 2015
Price new: £124,675
Price now: £90,000
See the original advert here
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Discussion
Pistonheads said:
... with very low mileage of just 4K too; these will go some way to justifying the £90,000 asking price. Predictably enough given it's only covered 2,000 miles a year since 2015...
Matt, why use the numerical term '4K' on one line, and '2,000' on the next? Surely you should stick with one form or the other.Back on the subject of manual versus auto supercars. I've driven a Gallardo & 360 with three & two pedals - the 2 pedal version (see what I did there?) of either car was a much more enjoyable drive than their manual counterparts. Those rancid shift gate things don't help the enjoyment at all, particularly as the car gets older & the shift bushes wear a little.
BFleming said:
Pistonheads said:
... with very low mileage of just 4K too; these will go some way to justifying the £90,000 asking price. Predictably enough given it's only covered 2,000 miles a year since 2015...
Matt, why use the numerical term '4K' on one line, and '2,000' on the next? Surely you should stick with one form or the other.TheLuke said:
BFleming said:
Pistonheads said:
... with very low mileage of just 4K too; these will go some way to justifying the £90,000 asking price. Predictably enough given it's only covered 2,000 miles a year since 2015...
Matt, why use the numerical term '4K' on one line, and '2,000' on the next? Surely you should stick with one form or the other.BFleming said:
TheLuke said:
BFleming said:
Pistonheads said:
... with very low mileage of just 4K too; these will go some way to justifying the £90,000 asking price. Predictably enough given it's only covered 2,000 miles a year since 2015...
Matt, why use the numerical term '4K' on one line, and '2,000' on the next? Surely you should stick with one form or the other.Drove one of these yesterday around Spa Francorchamps as it happens, not a Plus but a "regular" V10 R8 manual.
Incredible road cars. The manual gear-change with it's open gate "click clack" something to be treasured but not quite as rare as the article suggests-the owner reckoned 1 in 4 of V10 R8 and he's been offered around £50k as a part exchange price. His wasn't a Plus model.
They are incredibly fast, the fastest car I've ever driven I think and a sublime chassis that really shrinks around you-it really does feel like an incredibly fast Elise. How fast? Well at Oulton Park earlier this year we had the same car within a group of friends with varying skills on track and between a 997GT3rs and 997.2 Turbo and this R8 V10 there was nothing between them all, the R8 being the one that really looked after the driver incredibly well-benign on the limit with a stability control that kept the car balanced no matter the inputs.
I'm not a huge fan of the manual gear-change however, I found it had to have a very particular technique for it not to baulk and that involved you changing slowly which was at odds with the razor sharp response of that big V10.
That's on track however, where I'm sure not many R8s live. As a road car I think it would be an absolute pleasure and a true future classic.
Incredible road cars. The manual gear-change with it's open gate "click clack" something to be treasured but not quite as rare as the article suggests-the owner reckoned 1 in 4 of V10 R8 and he's been offered around £50k as a part exchange price. His wasn't a Plus model.
They are incredibly fast, the fastest car I've ever driven I think and a sublime chassis that really shrinks around you-it really does feel like an incredibly fast Elise. How fast? Well at Oulton Park earlier this year we had the same car within a group of friends with varying skills on track and between a 997GT3rs and 997.2 Turbo and this R8 V10 there was nothing between them all, the R8 being the one that really looked after the driver incredibly well-benign on the limit with a stability control that kept the car balanced no matter the inputs.
I'm not a huge fan of the manual gear-change however, I found it had to have a very particular technique for it not to baulk and that involved you changing slowly which was at odds with the razor sharp response of that big V10.
That's on track however, where I'm sure not many R8s live. As a road car I think it would be an absolute pleasure and a true future classic.
BFleming said:
Matt, why use the numerical term '4K' on one line, and '2,000' on the next? Surely you should stick with one form or the other.
Back on the subject of manual versus auto supercars. I've driven a Gallardo & 360 with three & two pedals - the 2 pedal version (see what I did there?) of either car was a much more enjoyable drive than their manual counterparts. Those rancid shift gate things don't help the enjoyment at all, particularly as the car gets older & the shift bushes wear a little.
Sorry, fair point! I'll be more consistent in future...Back on the subject of manual versus auto supercars. I've driven a Gallardo & 360 with three & two pedals - the 2 pedal version (see what I did there?) of either car was a much more enjoyable drive than their manual counterparts. Those rancid shift gate things don't help the enjoyment at all, particularly as the car gets older & the shift bushes wear a little.
Top pedantry.
I was always taught that numbers one to ten should be written in full and digits are fine for larger numbers.
Re the manual/auto debate I come down firmly on the side of manual but then the vast majority of fast cars I have driven have been manual (E39 M5, NSX, v8 R8, 355, 911 Turbo) so I fell in love with manual and find paddles a bit soulless.
I was always taught that numbers one to ten should be written in full and digits are fine for larger numbers.
Re the manual/auto debate I come down firmly on the side of manual but then the vast majority of fast cars I have driven have been manual (E39 M5, NSX, v8 R8, 355, 911 Turbo) so I fell in love with manual and find paddles a bit soulless.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I'm not a huge fan of the manual gear-change however, I found it had to have a very particular technique for it not to baulk and that involved you changing slowly which was at odds with the razor sharp response of that big V10.
I wonder if it's something that with a few more miles of muscle memory it might click and be just as quick?I think the cooking V10 versions of these, with a manual box, offer fairly spectacular value, frankly - available from about £50k. That is a lot of car for the money if you aren't a badge snob, and a manual V10 car? Nothing exists in this configuration this side of a Porsche Carrera GT, I believe?
I am still firmly considering a Manual V10 spyder. It's this or a V8 Vantage spyder in 4.7 form, to replace my 4.3 coupe. And if I am being honest with myself, the Aston is only in the mix because I love the looks and the image. The Audi is the more objectively capable, faster and well-engineered car. And the Aston costs an order of magnitude more to run...
I am still firmly considering a Manual V10 spyder. It's this or a V8 Vantage spyder in 4.7 form, to replace my 4.3 coupe. And if I am being honest with myself, the Aston is only in the mix because I love the looks and the image. The Audi is the more objectively capable, faster and well-engineered car. And the Aston costs an order of magnitude more to run...
Harry Flashman said:
I think the cooking V10 versions of these, with a manual box, offer fairly spectacular value, frankly - available from about £50k. That is a lot of car for the money if you aren't a badge snob, and a manual V10 car? Nothing exists in this configuration this side of a Porsche Carrera GT, I believe?
Don't forget it's blood brother, the Gallardo, Also available in manual, with 2 or 4 wheel drive options and with a little more power and sharpness. 
Good point - the Gallardo can be had in V10 manual form.
On value though, it;s a no-brainer. An early manual Gallardo (if you can find one) is 50% more expensive, (at least - most start at around £77k), 3-5 years older and has 494bhp rather than 518bhp.
For a badge and a sharp suit (and I actually detest the interior and driving position of the early Gallardo - I tested one and discounted it from the list in the first 10 miles), this is too much of a premium. The Four Rings are conspicuously good value next to the Raging Bull.
On value though, it;s a no-brainer. An early manual Gallardo (if you can find one) is 50% more expensive, (at least - most start at around £77k), 3-5 years older and has 494bhp rather than 518bhp.
For a badge and a sharp suit (and I actually detest the interior and driving position of the early Gallardo - I tested one and discounted it from the list in the first 10 miles), this is too much of a premium. The Four Rings are conspicuously good value next to the Raging Bull.
Edited by Harry Flashman on Wednesday 14th June 16:46
Harry Flashman said:
A manual Gallardo (if you can find one) is 50% more expensive, has 20bhp less.
Eh? It's the Audi that has 20-25bhp less than it's contemporaries (depending on which Gallardo you compare it with), though I'll grant you the earlier Gallardos have less power.But I was simply pointing out that there was a manual V10 option that sits between the Audi and the Carrera GT.
jeremyc said:
h? It's the Audi that has 20-25bhp less than it's contemporaries (depending on which Gallardo you compare it with), though I'll grant you the earlier Gallardos have less power.
But I was simply pointing out that there was a manual V10 option that sits between the Audi and the Carrera GT.
As I said - I agree: I forgot about the Gallardo. But my point was that a 2010 LP series is twice the price of a 2010 R8, and a 2005-7 gallardo is down on power to the Audi and at least 50% dearer. Hence my original post about theR8 V10 being a comparative bargain at the prices you can buy one for.But I was simply pointing out that there was a manual V10 option that sits between the Audi and the Carrera GT.
Probably because the Audi is perceived as an overgrown TT, whereas the Lambo has the looks and swagger of a baby super car.
Krikkit said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I'm not a huge fan of the manual gear-change however, I found it had to have a very particular technique for it not to baulk and that involved you changing slowly which was at odds with the razor sharp response of that big V10.
I wonder if it's something that with a few more miles of muscle memory it might click and be just as quick?But...
Why is it only the R8 that that happens with (others in the group found the same)? The other cars in our group include a GT3rs, Civic Type R, Megane R26.R etc etc It's not like we don't know what we're doing with manuals.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Why is it only the R8 that that happens with (others in the group found the same)? The other cars in our group include a GT3rs, Civic Type R, Megane R26.R etc etc It's not like we don't know what we're doing with manuals.
It's notoriously difficult to get the linkage right in a mid-engined car because you have to route it around the engine. Some manufacturers have managed it, but arguably more have failed. I wonder why, on high end cars like this, they don't use hydraulics for the gear linkage? As with a clutch, it would remove the problems with adjustment and slack that cables tend to have, and you can run hydraulics around tight corners which you can't with cables. Has there ever been a hydraulic linkage on a manual gearbox?
Edited by kambites on Thursday 15th June 18:55
Matt Bird said:
BFleming said:
Matt, why use the numerical term '4K' on one line, and '2,000' on the next? Surely you should stick with one form or the other.
Back on the subject of manual versus auto supercars. I've driven a Gallardo & 360 with three & two pedals - the 2 pedal version (see what I did there?) of either car was a much more enjoyable drive than their manual counterparts. Those rancid shift gate things don't help the enjoyment at all, particularly as the car gets older & the shift bushes wear a little.
Sorry, fair point! I'll be more consistent in future...Back on the subject of manual versus auto supercars. I've driven a Gallardo & 360 with three & two pedals - the 2 pedal version (see what I did there?) of either car was a much more enjoyable drive than their manual counterparts. Those rancid shift gate things don't help the enjoyment at all, particularly as the car gets older & the shift bushes wear a little.
kambites said:
I wonder why, on high end cars like this, they don't use hydraulics for the gear linkage? As with a clutch, it would remove the problems with adjustment and slack that cables tend to have, and you can run hydraulics around tight corners which you can't with cables. Has there ever been a hydraulic linkage on a manual gearbox?
Interesting idea, I can only find references for truck gearboxes... It would be a good solution though, 4 small hydraulic cylinders on the gearstick and you're away.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff