Wednesday 21st June 2017

Ducati's big announcement: PH2

Is this the end of Ducati's V-twin sports bikes?

---

This week Ducati sent around a very intriguing press release with the picture of a sports bike's tail unit and the headline 'When the end tells the whole story.' The release says that full information will be announced at the Laguna Seca round of WSB on Friday July 7th, so what can we expect to hear?

So is this a Final Edition?

It is no secret that Ducati is working on replacing the current Panigale, to be powered by a brand new V4 motor. The firm's General Manager, Claudio Domenicali, confirmed at last year's Milan Motorcycle Show that "We will see something in the future that is different than just two cylinders" and later went on to hint very strongly at a forthcoming V4 superbike using MotoGP technology. So will we see this released at Laguna? Sadly, PH2 is guessing probably not.

Those of you who are Ducati fans will be more than aware of the firm's tendency to released Final Edition (FE) models before they kill off a range. There was a 998FE and also a 900SS FE and they usually have some reference to the Italian flag on them. The bike shown in the press release has a green tail unit, hinting at a 1299 Panigale Tricolore model to be called the FE. Obviously the cynical will say that's just Ducati creating a limited edition model to shift old stock as the 1299 Panigale is not Euro4 homologated and therefore can't be sold in 2018, which is true, but PH2 also reckons that Ducati will use the unveiling of this bike to officially confirm the existence of the V4 but not actually show it. How else can they explain away a Final Edition model? Why do this?

V-twin Ducatis have quite the history...

Fans of the V-twin, and collectors, will certainly snap up the FE model as it is the end of an era that has seen Ducati win 14 WSB titles using V-twin motors. However the one question remains to be answered: will the V4 be as popular, or as successful, as the quintessentially Ducati engine it replaces? 2018 will be very interesting for Ducati's sporting fans not only in WSB with a new V4 superbike, but also MotoGP as it looks like it has finally turned a corner with this V4 as well...

[dukeboy749r]

The demise of the Ducati V twin must have been on Ducatis' and Audi's minds for some time now. if this is the 'end of model' release then a new V4 can only either come at the same time, or once enough units have been shifted to make it financially viable to end production (i.e. having gotten rid of most, if not all, of the stock of 1299s).

In order to survive they have to keep up with emissions targets. Whether they can protect their soul along the way, only time will tell, surely?

[D200]

A V4 for the superbikes isn’t a bad compromise. They will still have the twins for the monsters and scramblers etc. Personally I don’t see an issue with Ducati moving to a V4 for the superbikes [and I say this as a past owner of a couple of Ducati superbikes] wouldn't stop me buying one.

And if you ever heard their V4 engines MotoGP in the flesh its sounds utterly amazing, if the road bike sounded anything like it would be epic

[RemaL]

as said can't see a problem going V4. Maybe they have done what they can with the V twin

[TooMany2cvs]

Not Euro 4 emissions...

FFS, seriously? Euro 4 was needed in everything else from 2005. Is there a good reason bikes should be SO far behind?

[Richyboy]

I preferred the smaller fairing and folding mirrors of the 899 and 1199, would be nice if they brought these back for the outgoing one.

[Loyly]

Perhaps the V engine has reached it's natural end, without simply boosting the capacity again. As far as changes go, the V4 seems like a good idea. I can't say I've heard of a recent V4 that wasn't praised for all manner of things.

[Mr2Mike]

TooMany2cvs said:

Not Euro 4 emissions...

FFS, seriously? Euro 4 was needed in everything else from 2005. Is there a good reason bikes should be SO far behind?

Probably because it's more difficult to implement due to size and weight restrictions, coupled with far fewer motorcycles are sold compared to cars etc.

Plenty of bikes suffered badly from Euro 3 emissions compliance with snatchy fueling etc. which must have made the manufacturers of the piggyback fuel controllers (e.g. Dynojet Power commander) very happy.

[BaronMcLaren]

I've got a spec sheet, it's definitely Euro 4 compliant. Akrapovic Exhaust apparently, albeit not the one from the Superleggera (that's an option that will require the Carbon bellypan and removal of the side stand)

Also the Panigale name will continue, just not in 1299 guise.

Presumably the range topper will be the V4 and the junior Superbike will remain a 959 Panigale (at least for a year or two after the V4 arrives)

I didn't go for a Superleggera Mk2. having owned a Mk.1. However the base 1299 I've currently got will be replaced by one of these.

Countdown to the 7th Jul starts here.

[bimsb6]

Can't see them dumping the v twin , in the same way that bmw tried dumping the flat twin years back and harley went water cooled ,the hardcore buyers will not accept a 4 cylinder ducati .

[ZX10R NIN]

They have reached the end of the road with the V Twin unless they go up more CC's so in that sense the V4 works as well as giving a link to their MotoGP efforts.

[bimsb6]

V
Rumors and reports continue to swirl around Ducati, as the Italian manufacturer is linked to one brand or another for a potential divestiture from the Volkswagen Group. And now, the latest name being thrown into the hat is none other than iconic American brand Harley-Davidson.
In a report by Reuters, Harley-Davidson is linked to buying Ducati by unnamed sources, with a purchase price that is pegged around €1.5 billion, a number that has been put together by the bean-counting minds at Goldman Sachs.
Volkswagen is said to be taking bids on Ducati this July, which means the fate of the Italian motorcycle brand could be decided by the end of this year.
Continue Reading

[BaronMcLaren]

bimsb6 said:

V
Rumors and reports continue to swirl around Ducati, as the Italian manufacturer is linked to one brand or another for a potential divestiture from the Volkswagen Group. And now, the latest name being thrown into the hat is none other than iconic American brand Harley-Davidson.
In a report by Reuters, Harley-Davidson is linked to buying Ducati by unnamed sources, with a purchase price that is pegged around €1.5 billion, a number that has been put together by the bean-counting minds at Goldman Sachs.
Volkswagen is said to be taking bids on Ducati this July, which means the fate of the Italian motorcycle brand could be decided by the end of this year.
Continue Reading

I'd be very suprised to see VAG part with Ducati - it's part of the portfolio to compete with BMW group (Motorrad) and HD weren't a success with EBR were they? Can't see them thinking this is a bright idea.

[2ndclasscitizen]

TooMany2cvs said:

Not Euro 4 emissions...

FFS, seriously? Euro 4 was needed in everything else from 2005. Is there a good reason bikes should be SO far behind?

Bike Euro 4 =/= Car Euro 4. They're not even mandating OBD ports until Euro 5 IIRC.

[bimsb6]

BaronMcLaren said:

I'd be very suprised to see VAG part with Ducati - it's part of the portfolio to compete with BMW group (Motorrad) and HD weren't a success with EBR were they? Can't see them thinking this is a bright idea.

Harley had nothing to do with EBR.

[Walter Sobchak]

I know I will be getting the V4 if it's similarly priced to the Panigale, have always loved the look of Ducatis but never really gotten on with a V twin.

[BaronMcLaren]

bimsb6 said:

BaronMcLaren said:

I'd be very suprised to see VAG part with Ducati - it's part of the portfolio to compete with BMW group (Motorrad) and HD weren't a success with EBR were they? Can't see them thinking this is a bright idea.

Harley had nothing to do with EBR.

Ok not EBR but from memory they bought 'Buell' around 2002/03/04 ?

Presumably you get my point.

[Dakkon]

It's curious what the run out edition of the 1299 will be spec wise, will it be better than a superleggera? or just a 1299r+?

[BaronMcLaren]

Dakkon said:

It's curious what the run out edition of the 1299 will be spec wise, will it be better than a superleggera? or just a 1299r+?

Engine architecture from the Superleggera, but dumbed down material wise so loses 5/6hp.

Electronics package from the Anniversario not the Superleggera.

Ohlins NIX 30 up front.

168kg dry so 13kg up on the Superleggera. It's got a Li-on battery so no saving to be had there. I've got a set of OZ wheels to throw at it, will save 4/5kg. Pierobon subframe another 1/1.5kg perhaps. And the difference from there would be marginal gains.

Would help if I dropped from 100kg to 83/4 sometime soon no doubt.

Edited by BaronMcLaren on Thursday 22 June 09:53

[BaronMcLaren]

BTW it's called a Panigale 1299R Final Edition - so yes a 1299R+ of sorts

[998420]

bimsb6 said:

Can't see them dumping the v twin , in the same way that bmw tried dumping the flat twin years back and harley went water cooled ,the hardcore buyers will not accept a 4 cylinder ducati .

Exactly, like Porsche replacing the 911 with the 928...

It's not like V twin Ducatis are short on power for road use.. V4 will weigh more, do better at WSB, great, but will it be a better road bike?