RE: Prior Convictions: Phantom or i10

RE: Prior Convictions: Phantom or i10

Sunday 8th October 2017

Prior Convictions: Phantom or i10?

Judging the world's best car is fraught with peril. Matt P muses the criteria for making the ultimate call...



Apropos of the Phantom being so utterly splendid, Rolls-Royce would like you to consider it to be the best car in the world. Which it might be, depending on how you define the best car in the world.

At £360,000, which I reckon is more expensive than any other car built in significant volumes, shouldn't the Phantom be the best? I mean, it would be a failure if it weren't, wouldn't it?


But in some ways, it isn't. It's large, but not overtly practical. It has a twin-turbocharged V12, but only gets to 60mph in 5.1sec. It's quiet and refined, to the extent that it feels like you're at home even when you're not home, but it isn't exciting to drive. And, quite a lot of buyers will drop a million quid on one: by the laws of diminishing returns, that's not a great return.

Because if a Phantom owner drives the Rolls and you climb into, say, a Hyundai i10 - which starts at £8,995 and is one of the best city cars you can buy - you'll get to your destination at the same time, you'll stay just as dry, fit five people, carry almost as much luggage, park it more easily, find it's more agile, that it has a long warranty, a stereo, and one of the greatest gearshifts on any production car. Should the i10 not be the best car in the world, for being able to do all of that, for a fortieth of the cost of the Rolls?

Or there's the Volkswagen Golf R. Ah, lovely Volkswagen Golf R. It's all the things an i10 is, but more, because it's more fun to drive, faster, a bit more practical and refined, and so on. It's a terrific car and yet is still only £31,355. Should perhaps that not be the best?


Maths doesn't help, here, like it would in some circumstances. Imagine: a Vienetta ice cream is £1.60. But you can buy a dozen choc ices for that money. What's better? The choc ices, obviously. You get more of them, they taste pretty much the same and they're far, far less pretentious than a Vienetta, which is basically pretending it's too good to be a big choc ice. It's a stroll in the park victory for the choc ices.

Try that arithmetic with the Phantom? You can buy at least 11.4 Golfs for the price of a Rolls, but you could have 200 of them, and still none would ride as silently or smoothly as the Phantom. Conversely, cut a Phantom to a tenth of its size and it won't do what a Golf will. Logic, here, is no use at all.


So should the 'best' car simply be the most capable? And in which case, wouldn't it be the Bentley Bentayga? Yes, it is expensive, but is given a harder, broader, brief to fulfill than, I think, any other production car. It has to be a capable 4x4, to tow 3.5-tonnes, and yet needs to be a luxury car too. Oh, but did we mention we also want to be a bit sporting, and have a 187mph top speed? That it does all of these, even though it costs upwards of £160,000, is remarkable. No other car does as many things, as capably, as the Bentley Bentayga. Does that not make it the 'best'?

And the truth is that however you present your argument, in fact, is how you define the best car in the world. There is no right, there is no wrong, there is only opinion. The best car in the world is indefinable.

Except that, obviously, it's a Porsche 911 GT3.

 

Author
Discussion

tim milne

Original Poster:

344 posts

233 months

Friday 6th October 2017
quotequote all
John Cleese made a similarly argument to the Viennetta / choc ice comparison (showing your age there, Matt) prior to the arrival of digital TV — one silver teaspoon vs than 500 plastic stirring sticks. As it turns out, choice and abundance have proved to be very useful in TV, allowing the creation of some really innovative programming.

I think this question has to be viewed in the context of whether cars are to be one-thing-to-all or exist in a pluralistic world where many different types co-exist together. Now, this also brings in the question of price — not all of us can afford multiple cars, with all the associated costs of storing, insuring and running, anymore than we can afford a Bentley Bentayga.

So, if it's the former, you'd have to say the best car in the world is probably a Golf because that's the car that best matches costs vs capabilities.




tim milne

Original Poster:

344 posts

233 months

Friday 6th October 2017
quotequote all
But, of course, the answer is actually a GT3

tomv1to

144 posts

167 months

Friday 6th October 2017
quotequote all
Your all wrong. The best car is clearly the outgoing Swift Sport. Not biased in anyway.

Plate spinner

17,693 posts

200 months

Friday 6th October 2017
quotequote all
article said:
...by the laws of diminishing returns...
tim milne said:
... matches costs vs capabilities...
At the top end of any market where Buyers are not necessarily constrained by price, these points are not really relevant.

Dave Hedgehog

14,549 posts

204 months

Friday 6th October 2017
quotequote all
tim milne said:
But, of course, the answer is actually a GT3
its never going to be a bentayga, no car that induces vomiting at 400 yards like the bentaagghhhga does can ever be fit for anything other than scrap



aaron_2000

5,407 posts

83 months

Friday 6th October 2017
quotequote all
You're all forgetting the PH answer. A mapped 335d estate with the media pack.

oldtimer2

728 posts

133 months

Friday 6th October 2017
quotequote all
When I first read the headline on my tablet I thought it read Phantom or 110. I was disappointed to discover, on closer inspection, that for 110 I should read i10 and that the Defender was nowhere to be seen. If you must limit yourself to one car then at least let it be versatile.

Ocellia

186 posts

149 months

Friday 6th October 2017
quotequote all
Original Smart Forfour, anyone? Nippy, 4/5 seats. Plastic body panels.
Or Nissan Cube.

Limos are so elitist-a two-fingers to the 'proles'. Not nice and total waste of money.

Jex

838 posts

128 months

Friday 6th October 2017
quotequote all
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/columnists/jam...
Not saying I agree, but it's one answer

downsman

1,099 posts

156 months

Friday 6th October 2017
quotequote all
Since when has keeping you dry been necessary for the best car in the world?
The original Silver Ghost didn't bother much with protection from the elements.......

......a Caterham owner biggrin

Trophy-GTA

101 posts

98 months

Friday 6th October 2017
quotequote all
The best car in the world is a Ferrari.

W124

1,517 posts

138 months

Friday 6th October 2017
quotequote all
Reliability must be a factor also, no? I mean it does have to work.

big_rob_sydney

3,401 posts

194 months

Friday 6th October 2017
quotequote all
Best car in the world should be defined as how close something comes to fulfilling its fitness for purpose.

A sports car that is an 8 out of 10, is not better than a city car that nails 9 out of 10.

That has zero to do with performance or desirability.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Car_of_the_Yea...

Nickbrapp

5,277 posts

130 months

Friday 6th October 2017
quotequote all
The answer is any old shed so long as you can "afford" it by not buying it on the never never

Mx5 vs mapped 335d and you'll struggle

cptsideways

13,544 posts

252 months

Friday 6th October 2017
quotequote all
I10 gets a heated steering wheel, that's not on the Phantom options list hehe




dunnoreally

960 posts

108 months

Friday 6th October 2017
quotequote all
Some cars are good at some things and some cars are good at other things. Just buy what fits with you and have done with it, I say.

cramorra

1,665 posts

235 months

Saturday 7th October 2017
quotequote all
Affordability practicability price reasonable durability and versability
Plus ph factor
You must mean a c63 wagon for sure

blearyeyedboy

6,285 posts

179 months

Saturday 7th October 2017
quotequote all
This is not the greatest car in the world.



Edited by blearyeyedboy on Saturday 7th October 20:23

Pica-Pica

13,753 posts

84 months

Saturday 7th October 2017
quotequote all
Ocellia said:
Original Smart Forfour, anyone? Nippy, 4/5 seats. Plastic body panels.
Or Nissan Cube.

Limos are so elitist-a two-fingers to the 'proles'. Not nice and total waste of money.
Is the Phantom a limousine? Technically a limousine has a partition between the front driving row, and the rear compartment.

Onehp

1,617 posts

283 months

Sunday 8th October 2017
quotequote all
I would assume, wrongly perhaps, that a true PH would own what they know to be the best car for themselves. That includes being within budget...

I change cars when I know for myself there is a better one out there for me/us. And therefore the car I drive is the best one for me, most of the time at least. In my case it's almost a Golf...