RE: Japanese Domestic Market Civic Type Rs: Spotted

RE: Japanese Domestic Market Civic Type Rs: Spotted

Sunday 12th November 2017

Japanese Domestic Market Civic Type Rs: Spotted

Both EK9 and EP3 Civics had more exciting versions just for Japan, and a couple have made it here...



This year, as you may have noticed, marks 25 years of Honda making Type Rs. Amongst them are some truly legendary cars - Integra and NSX most notably - as well as perhaps the most well known Type R of them all: the Civic. Conveniently enough, 2017 is the 20th anniversary of that model - albeit not consecutive years, granted - so there's no better time for a delve into the classifieds to see what's on offer in the world of souped-up Civics.

Remember when Civics were this tiny?
Remember when Civics were this tiny?
That two decades of Type R means non-UK cars have to be included, the Japanese-only EK9 Type R where the super Civic saga began in 1997. We've already welcomed it into the PH Hero ranks, the combination of a wild powertrain, tiny kerbweight and import-only mystique securing its place. Think too of how UK hot hatches looked in 1997: Escort GTI, Bravo HGT, perhaps a 3 Series Compact if you were pushing the boat out. Alright, so a quick 306 would have done a good job, but over in Japan Honda was offering a Civic making more than 100hp per litre and weighing just over a tonne. It made even the VTI sold over here look a little ordinary.

Like so many icons of the Japanese performance car scene from the turn of the millennium, a good few EK9 Type Rs have made their way over here - some still are being imported, in fact. This particular Civic appealed because it's Championship White - the best Type R colour, even if this yellow car does look pretty cool - and because it's cheap: £5,800 is more than £2,000 less than any other on PH at present.

Here's what you're paying for
Here's what you're paying for
The reason? Higher mileage than most, at 118,000, but then doesn't it look clean? The paint looks fresh, the wheels are good and even the underbonnet shot doesn't throw up any apparent horrors. The driver's seat bolster is worn, of course, and a standard steering wheel would look better - don't even mention the sub - though the car has only been in the UK for two years (making rust less of an issue) and the owner is only selling because they have too many cars. That's usually a good sign, right?

For another £1,000, one of the later EP3 Civic Type Rs that just Japan was treated to is available. Don't mistake these for just a UK car painted in Championship White either - this was a tangibly more serious proposition. Power was up by 15hp thanks to bespoke valves, pistons and cams, and it revved higher too. There was a standard mechanical limited-slip diff, a unique suspension tune, those lovely red Recaros and, of course, the paint option. Bemusingly, the Japanese car was made in Swindon and then sent over for sale in Japan (note the Union Jack on the boot).

Built in Swindon to be sold in Japan. Huh
Built in Swindon to be sold in Japan. Huh
These cars are more expensive to buy than regular UK Civic Type Rs, though you are at least paying for a better version and not simply because it was only sold in Japan. This Type R, for sale at £6,995, was only imported this year and comes with less than 80,000 miles. As far as can be seen it's standard and comes with all its Japanese papers as well.

You don't need us to tell you that buyers after a hot hatch from the 2000s are spoilt for choice in the UK, various Renaults and Fords and everything else ticking a lot of boxes that makes an import a tough sell. But on top of the rarity and Gran Turismo kudos, these Civic Type Rs are serious performance cars too, a notch above their well regarded UK counterparts so well worth a look. And 8,000rpm is only going to get more exciting as it becomes less common...


HONDA CIVIC TYPE R (EK9)
Engine: 1,595cc, 4-cyl
Transmission: 5-speed manual, front-wheel drive, limited-slip diff
Power (hp): 185@8,200rpm
Torque (lb ft): 118@7,500rpm
MPG: Well it's only a Civic, right?
CO2: N/A
First registered: 2015 (in UK)
Recorded mileage: 118,000
Price new: Approx. 2,000,000 yen (£16,500, 1997)
Yours for: £5,800

See the EK9 advert here.

HONDA CIVIC TYPE R (EP3 JDM)
Engine:
1,998cc, 4-cyl
Transmission: 6-speed manual, front-wheel drive, limited-slip diff
Power (hp): 215@8,000rpm
Torque (lb ft): 149@7,000rpm
MPG: Well it's only a Civic, right?
CO2: N/A
First registered: 2017 (in UK)
Recorded mileage: 79,000
Price new: N/A
Yours for: £6,995

See the EP3 advert here.

 

[Sources: Wikipedia, TypeROwners]

Author
Discussion

rossub

Original Poster:

4,440 posts

190 months

Sunday 12th November 2017
quotequote all
Just had a look at the prices in Japan for both of these and they're all £7k+ for anything decent..... then add 30% tax, £800+ shipping etc.... sad times.

I had the EP3 for a year and it's the most fun car I've ever owned. Perfect for our roads.

Mr2Mike

20,143 posts

255 months

Sunday 12th November 2017
quotequote all
It's a real shame that Honda didn't fit the hydraulic power steering from the DC5 to the Civic, it would have removed the single biggest criticism of the car.

David87

6,651 posts

212 months

Sunday 12th November 2017
quotequote all
Love both of these. The EP3 particularly is excellent - I’d love an absolutely mint one!

keo

2,046 posts

170 months

Sunday 12th November 2017
quotequote all
Mr2Mike said:
It's a real shame that Honda didn't fit the hydraulic power steering from the DC5 to the Civic, it would have removed the single biggest criticism of the car.
I may be wrong but I thought they did?

I had a premier edition ep3 and hated it because of the EPAS it was up for sale after less than a month. Shame because everything else was good.

Butter Face

30,283 posts

160 months

Sunday 12th November 2017
quotequote all
keo said:
Mr2Mike said:
It's a real shame that Honda didn't fit the hydraulic power steering from the DC5 to the Civic, it would have removed the single biggest criticism of the car.
I may be wrong but I thought they did?

I had a premier edition ep3 and hated it because of the EPAS it was up for sale after less than a month. Shame because everything else was good.
All EP3’s have EPAS. No hydraulic in any model.

Not something that bothers me IMO. The EPAS is hardly ruins what is a great car.

I should have just bought a JDM EP3 instead of messing with mine hehe

rossub

Original Poster:

4,440 posts

190 months

Sunday 12th November 2017
quotequote all
The EPAS issue is totally over exaggerated IMO. As I said above - JDM EP3 is brilliant fun.

JMF894

5,494 posts

155 months

Sunday 12th November 2017
quotequote all
I also had a brand new EP3 Type R back in 2005. Sold after 8 months. terrible steering, dreadful traction when damp/cold from the potenzas and only average performance for the class when all's said and done. Lots of hype and too many irritations for me. I did love the engine and gearbox though.

keo

2,046 posts

170 months

Sunday 12th November 2017
quotequote all
Oh I always thought the jdm ep3 had hydraulic like the dc5. To be fair I put some better tyres on mine and it made a massive difference.

I drove it for a month, hated it. Had it up for sale. Then I thought I would just try changing the tyres as it was about 3 years old and still had the originals fitted. Lots of tread but quite hard.

New tyres and it was like a different car. But by this time I had driven an Elise and wanted one. (Couldn’t Insure an Elise at the time so ended up in a vx220t)

Looking back I should have given the ep3 a proper chance. A fast road set up transforms them again so I have read.

Scobblelotcher

1,724 posts

112 months

Sunday 12th November 2017
quotequote all
JMF894 said:
I also had a brand new EP3 Type R back in 2005. Sold after 8 months. terrible steering, dreadful traction when damp/cold from the potenzas and only average performance for the class when all's said and done. Lots of hype and too many irritations for me. I did love the engine and gearbox though.
I agree with the factory tires being rubbish in cold/wet conditions. I ran mine on Toyo T1Rsand they were great.

5e steering has an odd feeling when you first drive it but after sometime in the car, I thought it was brilliant.

I owned two and did track days and had zero issues with the car, really enjoyed it. The only reason I changed was after driving a mildly modified P1 (340bhp) which was capable of things that the CTR in both performance and traction.

Mr2Mike

20,143 posts

255 months

Monday 13th November 2017
quotequote all
rossub said:
The EPAS issue is totally over exaggerated IMO. As I said above - JDM EP3 is brilliant fun.
Drive e.g. an EK9 back to back with an EP3 and the difference in steering feel is night and day. Some EP3's are much worse than others however, the rack on mine was horrendous until I stripped it and 'hobbed' the nylon worm gear using a modified worm from a spare rack. That massively improved it and removed all the stiffness that prevented it self centring, but it still felt very dead compared to a decent hydraulic system.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

126 months

Monday 13th November 2017
quotequote all
How can something built in Swindon be Japanese Domestic Market?

Butter Face

30,283 posts

160 months

Monday 13th November 2017
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
How can something built in Swindon be Japanese Domestic Market?
They don’t have to be built in Japan, they are cars sold exclusively in Japan for their home market.


TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

126 months

Monday 13th November 2017
quotequote all
Butter Face said:
TooMany2cvs said:
How can something built in Swindon be Japanese Domestic Market?
They don’t have to be built in Japan, they are cars sold exclusively in Japan for their home market.
That's Japanese market.

Domestic, though...

rodericb

6,712 posts

126 months

Monday 13th November 2017
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
Butter Face said:
TooMany2cvs said:
How can something built in Swindon be Japanese Domestic Market?
They don’t have to be built in Japan, they are cars sold exclusively in Japan for their home market.
That's Japanese market.

Domestic, though...
Cars sold in the Japanese Domestic Market? Like a JDM Porsche Boxster?


TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

126 months

Monday 13th November 2017
quotequote all
rodericb said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Butter Face said:
TooMany2cvs said:
How can something built in Swindon be Japanese Domestic Market?
They don’t have to be built in Japan, they are cars sold exclusively in Japan for their home market.
That's Japanese market.

Domestic, though...
Cars sold in the Japanese Domestic Market? Like a JDM Porsche Boxster?
Domestic means not exported. A car built in Swindon for sale in Japan needs exporting.

A car built outside Japan for sale in Japan is Japanese Market.
A car built in Japan for sale in Japan is Japanese Domestic Market.
The domestic market for a Swindon-built car is the UK.

Domestic market for a Boxster would be Germany or Finland.

Calling anything sold in Japan JDM is no more than scene-tax humpty-dumptyism.

Krikkit

26,515 posts

181 months

Monday 13th November 2017
quotequote all
Mr2Mike said:
rossub said:
The EPAS issue is totally over exaggerated IMO. As I said above - JDM EP3 is brilliant fun.
Drive e.g. an EK9 back to back with an EP3 and the difference in steering feel is night and day. Some EP3's are much worse than others however, the rack on mine was horrendous until I stripped it and 'hobbed' the nylon worm gear using a modified worm from a spare rack. That massively improved it and removed all the stiffness that prevented it self centring, but it still felt very dead compared to a decent hydraulic system.
Mad thought, but could they not be converted to a manual rack instead? It'd be heavy, but not unworkable with 15" wheels...

Butter Face

30,283 posts

160 months

Monday 13th November 2017
quotequote all
Krikkit said:
Mr2Mike said:
rossub said:
The EPAS issue is totally over exaggerated IMO. As I said above - JDM EP3 is brilliant fun.
Drive e.g. an EK9 back to back with an EP3 and the difference in steering feel is night and day. Some EP3's are much worse than others however, the rack on mine was horrendous until I stripped it and 'hobbed' the nylon worm gear using a modified worm from a spare rack. That massively improved it and removed all the stiffness that prevented it self centring, but it still felt very dead compared to a decent hydraulic system.
Mad thought, but could they not be converted to a manual rack instead? It'd be heavy, but not unworkable with 15" wheels...
The way the engine sits in the EP3 means the PAS pump (as it is fitted on a DC5) would foul the bonnet.

I’m sure someone could engineer an aftermarket job in place of the top idler or AC pump (like where the supercharger fits on my car) but then you still have to have the rack, lines etc.

Lowtimer

4,286 posts

168 months

Monday 13th November 2017
quotequote all
Er, I think he means proper actual manual steering, not hydraulic PAS. You know. Like what we all used to have in everything.

Butter Face

30,283 posts

160 months

Monday 13th November 2017
quotequote all
Lowtimer said:
Er, I think he means proper actual manual steering, not hydraulic PAS. You know. Like what we all used to have in everything.
Oh right. Possible then of course, use a DC5 rack and just plug up the pipes. Would be fking horrible though.

havoc

30,038 posts

235 months

Monday 13th November 2017
quotequote all
I doubt a non-assisted EP3 rack would be that user-friendly...esp. not with 17" rims (which I believe are the smallest that will fit over the front calipers).

EK9 (on 15"s) arguably doesn't need a manual rack - like the DC2 it has amongst the sweetest PAS racks going (certainly for fwd, and neither are corrupted by torque-steer).


Anyway - PH, what about the daddy of CTRs (OK, grandson maybe) - the FD2! wink