RE: 1200kg of downforce for Brabham BT62

RE: 1200kg of downforce for Brabham BT62

Thursday 19th April 2018

1200kg of downforce for Brabham BT62

Famous-name manufacturer says its first car will be V8-powered and sub one-tonne dry



Well, we asked for a picture, and here it is: the Brabham BT62 - or the back of it, at any rate. What can we deduce? Well, there's going to be downforce, clearly. Lots of it. Wise to our detective skills, the firm has accompanied its teaser shot with some technical detail, claiming a whopping 1200kg of clever air resistance from what is clearly an aggressive aero package.

To push it through the airflow, Brabham has installed a 5.4-litre naturally-aspirated V8, and claims a power-to-weight ration of 730hp per tonne. That is also a lot. Especially when you consider that McLaren quotes 668hp per tonne for the Senna, a car with a dry weight of 1198kg.

Brabham says the BT62 will be substantially lighter than that at a fluidless 972kg - suggesting that it is going nowhere near the road nor contain anything that might be mistaken as a creature comfort. It hasn't announced a headline figure for the V8, but the mathematicians among you will have already figured that it'll need to be producing around 710hp to arrive at its exalted power-to-weight number.

Undeniably that puts it (on paper at least) in the premier league of pure-bred track cars. And it will need to be because Brabham has announced a starting price for the BT62 of £1m plus taxes. Precisely what that buys you - beyond LED tail lights, a carbon fibre rear wing and all-carbon, all-round six piston brakes - we'll have to wait for the global reveal in London early next month to find out.

Alternatively, with the order books already open for the limited production run, you could speak to the manufacturer about buying one right now. Ownership will automatically gain you a place on a Brabham driver development programme, too - which you'll probably need unless an LMP1 drive appears on your CV. The firm expects deliveries to begin later this year.

Author
Discussion

Ryvita

Original Poster:

712 posts

209 months

Thursday 19th April 2018
quotequote all
Queue a tonne (ho ho ho) of comments regarding the old, "driving upside down" thing... smile

cookie1600

2,094 posts

160 months

Thursday 19th April 2018
quotequote all
Ryvita said:
Queue a tonne (ho ho ho) of comments regarding the old, "driving upside down" thing... smile
Well Jack Brabham was Australian...

unsprung

5,467 posts

123 months

Thursday 19th April 2018
quotequote all

Whose V8 is it?

Krikkit

26,500 posts

180 months

Thursday 19th April 2018
quotequote all
unsprung said:
Whose V8 is it?
With those power/weight figures I'd have a stump at a very modded Chevy LS.

unsprung

5,467 posts

123 months

Thursday 19th April 2018
quotequote all
Nanook said:
Krikkit said:
unsprung said:
Whose V8 is it?
With those power/weight figures I'd have a stump at a very modded Chevy LS.
Chevy never made a 5.4L version.

That's not to say that this isn't a bored or stroked version of one of the smaller capacity SBCs.

Wasn't the modular Ford V8 a 5.4L in the, albeit with a 'charger?
I, too, jumped immediately to the idea that it must be a Yank.

Ford is the only one with a factory 5.4L, and this was made in both normally-aspirated as well as supercharged varieties. But no 5.4L is offered as a crate motor on the Ford Performance page (the 5.2L is offered).


unsprung

5,467 posts

123 months

Thursday 19th April 2018
quotequote all


Also:

The PH article says that this V8 is normally aspirated. At 330 cubic inches, an output of 710hp with no forced induction is more than ambitious. Cam profiles would be aggressive in the extreme. Road manners would be atrocious and revs would need to be very high.

There are few benefits to such an application when, at the same time, forced-induction could achieve the same power with far greater reliability and true road manners.


rev-erend

21,404 posts

283 months

Thursday 19th April 2018
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Launch on 2nd May .. guess we will have teasers until then..

tektas

293 posts

98 months

Thursday 19th April 2018
quotequote all
unsprung said:
Also:

The PH article says that this V8 is normally aspirated. At 330 cubic inches, an output of 710hp with no forced induction is more than ambitious. Cam profiles would be aggressive in the extreme. Road manners would be atrocious and revs would need to be very high.

There are few benefits to such an application when, at the same time, forced-induction could achieve the same power with far greater reliability and true road manners.
I do not think that Brabham thought much about road manners. This is a pure track car.

Vitorio

4,296 posts

142 months

Thursday 19th April 2018
quotequote all
unsprung said:
Also:

The PH article says that this V8 is normally aspirated. At 330 cubic inches, an output of 710hp with no forced induction is more than ambitious. Cam profiles would be aggressive in the extreme. Road manners would be atrocious and revs would need to be very high.

There are few benefits to such an application when, at the same time, forced-induction could achieve the same power with far greater reliability and true road manners.
Yep, caught my attention as well

A current small block with 5.3 liters of displacement tops out at ~375hp without a supercharger/turbo

Ford manages ~560 from the Voodoo version of their 5.2L coyote

Somehow squeezing an extra 150 from what is already an pretty highly strung engine... 710hp from 5.4 litre means 131hp/litre, compare that to say 110/litre for the V8 from an enzo, or 126 from the ferrari 458, or 125 from the Laferrari V12, basically the best the masters of NA engines had to offer before going turbo

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Thursday 19th April 2018
quotequote all
710bhp from 5.4 litres is certainly pushing it for a naturally aspirated engine which meets modern road-car emissions regs but if this is going to be track-only, it sounds plausible. It's certainly going to have to rev, though!

Krikkit

26,500 posts

180 months

Thursday 19th April 2018
quotequote all
Vitorio said:
Somehow squeezing an extra 150 from what is already an pretty highly strung engine... 710hp from 5.4 litre means 131hp/litre, compare that to say 110/litre for the V8 from an enzo, or 126 from the ferrari 458, or 125 from the Laferrari V12, basically the best the masters of NA engines had to offer before going turbo
Enzo was a V12...


Usget

5,426 posts

210 months

Thursday 19th April 2018
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
But Ford have said that only the GT350 will get the flat-plane crank "to preserve exclusivity". So the crate engines don't get it.

Vitorio

4,296 posts

142 months

Thursday 19th April 2018
quotequote all
Krikkit said:
Enzo was a V12...
Derp, had my mind at the 458 already i guess, figures still make sense though

Gecko1978

9,603 posts

156 months

Thursday 19th April 2018
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how about 2 hyabusa engines linked is there a kit that could take them to 5.4ltr...i am thinking not but they would rev high enough for big numbers.

MDL111

6,892 posts

176 months

Thursday 19th April 2018
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Sounds awesome - I was hoping it would be in the 150-300k price bracket though - ah well

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 19th April 2018
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Does anyone actually care?


For £1M unless you already literally have one of every car ever produced why would you want this car? it brings nothing new to the table, isn't going to be very nice to drive on the road (assuming it is road legal at all) and almost certainly will become effectively worthless as soon as you have bought it?

For the same £1M you could have your choice of real race cars, both modern and historic, or a raft of any number of REALLY nice road cars instead?

unsprung

5,467 posts

123 months

Thursday 19th April 2018
quotequote all
Max_Torque said:
For the same £1M you could have your choice of real race cars, both modern and historic, or a raft of any number of REALLY nice road cars instead?
You make a fine argument. Who would turn down the opportunity to do one of PH's £100K garages -- with a sixth zero attached? You could purchase not only cars, but the residence and garage space to go with them!

I think that one way to look at this BT62 is as a sort of ultimate rare experience. If you're rich, you get not only the car, but the driver development programme and, presumably, the personal attention of a Formula 1 driver and his team of motorsport boffins. For the truly engaged buyer -- one who is into the engineering and physics of it all -- there's probably a lot to get your head around here. Will make for some uncommon access / conversations and the photos and video to go with it.

Is this then worth the asking price? I dunno. Maybe buyers will have already done one of the exclusive programmes with Ferrari or other. And this is for them another box to tick.



Chestrockwell

2,624 posts

156 months

Thursday 19th April 2018
quotequote all
Vitorio said:
Yep, caught my attention as well

A current small block with 5.3 liters of displacement tops out at ~375hp without a supercharger/turbo

Ford manages ~560 from the Voodoo version of their 5.2L coyote

Somehow squeezing an extra 150 from what is already an pretty highly strung engine... 710hp from 5.4 litre means 131hp/litre, compare that to say 110/litre for the V8 from an enzo, or 126 from the ferrari 458, or 125 from the Laferrari V12, basically the best the masters of NA engines had to offer before going turbo
Let’s not forget the S2000

MagicalTrevor

6,476 posts

228 months

Thursday 19th April 2018
quotequote all
PH Article said:
claiming a whopping 1200kg of clever air resistance from what is clearly an aggressive aero package
Really!? Do you not understand the difference between air resistance (drag) and downforce?

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Thursday 19th April 2018
quotequote all
Nanook said:
Gecko1978 said:
how about 2 hyabusa engines linked is there a kit that could take them to 5.4ltr...i am thinking not but they would rev high enough for big numbers.
5.4L would be more than twice the standard swept volume for a standard Hayabusa.
Almost exactly four times, in fact. Still it's got nearly four times the power of a 'busa, too.

675cc is a big cylinder to get that sort of specific output out of.