RE: Prior Convictions: Merry-Go-Round

RE: Prior Convictions: Merry-Go-Round

Saturday 5th May 2018

Prior Convictions: Merry-Go-Round

Prior's been in America this week driving electric cars. So guess what's on his mind? Yep, roundabouts.



This is an ode to the roundabout. Yeah, I know. But go with it.

Maybe like you, I don't think about roundabouts that often, other than actually how to circumnavigate one when I'm circumnavigating it. It's just a part of daily life. I rather take them for granted.

But like having a back that works properly, or having a thumb that definitely doesn't have a paper cut right on the end of it, you're quickly aware if that situation changes.

I've just spent a two days in the USA. (I know. Get me.) And they don't very often do roundabouts there, except rarely, and in quiet, out of the way places. In two days, I saw two.

In their place, then, they have junctions. Crossroads. Straight bits instead of round bits, with controlled entry.

This is either via 'four-way stop' junctions - whoever got to the crossroads first gets to go first, after coming to a complete standstill - or traffic lights. I've spent untold minutes stationary, unnecessarily, at both.

The Americans get lots of things right - V8s, burgers, wide open spaces and the permission to use it - but I'm afraid we have them nailed when it comes to junctions.

The roundabout is a brilliant invention. Even the 'magic roundabout', several mini-roundabouts joined together, as you'll find in Swindon and Hemel Hempstead, is a marvel. I know they get some stick, but I can't think of another system that would deal with the quantity of cars that join from the sheer number of adjoining roads as deftly as Hemel's Plough roundabout does.

But more than that: they also create the compulsion to make cars steer accurately, they make a low centre of gravity useful. They are a way to experience a corner.

Maybe that's why the US doesn't have so many. There are lots of great back roads in the US. But its towns and highways are places of long, wide pavement, made for muscle cars, big trucks, RVs and trailers, with driveway ramps that must make supercar owners very adept at fitting new front splitters.

I often think you can tell a lot about a country's roads - a country's geography - by the nature of its cars. French cars used to ride lopingly on ruffled country lanes, German cars are intensely stable at high speeds, and Japanese sports cars are light and agile because their back roads suit it.

American sports cars and muscle cars are not worse for being full of woofly goodness, great between sets of lights and riding broken concrete. It'd be a shame if they weren't.

But, stopping for the nth time at a four-way junction, or for the green light to go left at a set of crossroads, you don't half realise that they'd get places quicker if they used more roundabouts.

Unless, that is, like us, they put traffic lights on them even when they're not busy. But don't get me started on those.

Author
Discussion

Ozerob

Original Poster:

25 posts

87 months

Saturday 5th May 2018
quotequote all
Come to Adelaide, another largely roundabout free zone, but we have main roads with traffic light controlled 4 way junctions every 400 metres.
A great way to waste petrol.

Cobnapint

8,625 posts

151 months

Saturday 5th May 2018
quotequote all
Fully agree. The US un-traffic lighted crossroads where you have to come to a complete bloody stop, even if there's clearly nothing else in sight, are a nightmare.

I happened upon my first one in the back streets of LA in 2007. I arrived at it about 1 second after another guy did that was coming from the left. He had come to a dead stop just as I was arriving. But as I was carrying a bit of momentum (no, not you Jeremy) and as he was sat there like a lemon, I carried straight on perfectly safely.

The hand gestures and look he gave me were quite shocking. It was as if I'd torn up the US Constitution right in front of his face. I think I touched a bit of an American nerve.

But there's one thing they have got that we could do with - right turn on red (which would be left turn on red over here).

markclow

118 posts

131 months

Saturday 5th May 2018
quotequote all
One interesting they are doing in USA is reverse diamond interchanges. They seem to work well. Here is the one I cross every day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY8xU-UAQWs

CDP

7,459 posts

254 months

Saturday 5th May 2018
quotequote all
The Lotus test track at Hethel used to have a roundabout at one end. Perfect for smokey goonage smile

jamei303

3,001 posts

156 months

Saturday 5th May 2018
quotequote all
markclow said:
One interesting they are doing in USA is reverse diamond interchanges. They seem to work well. Here is the one I cross every day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY8xU-UAQWs
Only 2 phases so looks good in that video but if the traffic flow is uneven it could go far more pear-shaped than a signalised roundabout arrangement would.

lee st

5,077 posts

165 months

Saturday 5th May 2018
quotequote all
If you happen to be there again in Arizona and are heading Prescott valley to cottonwood via Jerome you will enter cottonwood crossing 5 roundabouts within a couple miles. Great road over Jerome BTW.

unsprung

5,467 posts

124 months

Saturday 5th May 2018
quotequote all
"Oh, dear me. We've neglected to construct a roundabout."



TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

126 months

Saturday 5th May 2018
quotequote all
Ah, that driver's paradise... Milton Keynes.

wst

3,494 posts

161 months

Saturday 5th May 2018
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
Ah, that driver's paradise... Milton Keynes.
Would you prefer it to have 4-way stops or traffic lights? At least with its configuration, which is always "that bit to get past before the roads begin" you can occasionally cross the whole city without stopping once or - with real effort and a fair bit of luck - without touching the brake pedal once.

AshD

216 posts

249 months

Saturday 5th May 2018
quotequote all
Milton Keynes, my daily commute into there. Great fun...apart from how much you spend on replacing tyres and brakes!

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

126 months

Saturday 5th May 2018
quotequote all
wst said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Ah, that driver's paradise... Milton Keynes.
Would you prefer it to have 4-way stops or traffic lights?
I can think of better solutions.

Like a proper bloody ring road...

Mr Tidy

22,259 posts

127 months

Saturday 5th May 2018
quotequote all
Back in 1998 I started working for a Boston-based company and got sent on a training course to their training facility some miles outside downtown.

Landed at Logan Airport and picked up the hire car. Should be a doddle I thought as I had some directions - but the way they were written we should have got to a place called "Rotary" but somehow we never did. confused

It seems they call a roundabout a rotary - two nations separated by the same language! laugh

unsprung

5,467 posts

124 months

Saturday 5th May 2018
quotequote all
Mr Tidy said:
It seems they call a roundabout a rotary
"They" applies to a limited geography:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotaries_in_Massachu...


Valgar

850 posts

135 months

Saturday 5th May 2018
quotequote all
Roundabouts whilst hazardous usually involve fairly low speed accidents.

Crossroads and intersections are lethal if someone runs the red

wst

3,494 posts

161 months

Sunday 6th May 2018
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
wst said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Ah, that driver's paradise... Milton Keynes.
Would you prefer it to have 4-way stops or traffic lights?
I can think of better solutions.

Like a proper bloody ring road...
That would work well, yes. I'll just... tuck that book full of M25 = carpark jokes down the back of the sofa.

As for rotaries vs. roundabouts, originally they had different rules. Rotaries gave priority to the joining traffic, not the traffic currently in the round bit of road.

Of course, to the layman, who the hell knows this about rotaries? So when similar round looking roads appeared they got lumped in...

hammo19

4,968 posts

196 months

Sunday 6th May 2018
quotequote all
AshD said:
Milton Keynes, my daily commute into there. Great fun...apart from how much you spend on replacing tyres and brakes!
+1 to that. We lived there for 5 years. It was 17 roundabouts from the M1 to our house and the roundabout discipline was an absolute disgrace.

We came across one roundabout in Clearwater in Florida, that was chaos too!

hammo19

4,968 posts

196 months

Sunday 6th May 2018
quotequote all
I forgot to add that there are a couple of things we would do well to adopt from the US.

- overtaking either side on the motorway (freeway)
- right turns on traffic lights


Konrod

870 posts

228 months

Sunday 6th May 2018
quotequote all
I've always thought roundabouts are a great idea. Fundamentally all they are is a traffic flow defined right of way system, the key bit being traffic flow defined. The only real weakness is that it can be difficult if the road joining to your right is a major road, so there are no gaps.

The problem comes in that it requires some skills by the driver in terms of judging distance/speed as well as lane control on larger ones, so I don't see it working widescale in the US where they don't have the same level of training.

The Diamond system looks great in the simulation - any of those junctions get clogged though and it will be chaos.


saaby93

32,038 posts

178 months

Sunday 6th May 2018
quotequote all
has anone seen this roundabout that isnt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDDmE4qoCns

clockworks

5,351 posts

145 months

Sunday 6th May 2018
quotequote all
hammo19 said:
+1 to that. We lived there for 5 years. It was 17 roundabouts from the M1 to our house and the roundabout discipline was an absolute disgrace.

We came across one roundabout in Clearwater in Florida, that was chaos too!
Milton Keynes was great when it first started. I moved there in 1981from Croydon. Central MK shopping centre had only just opened, many of the estates were just fields. It was easy to drive from one side to the other without stopping. Even when I moved away in 1997, it was still easy to navigate, with no queues unless you wanted to get into the shopping centre car parks.

I went back there with my job about 10 years ago. Totally different place, way more traffic.The roads around Ikea were more like a race track. I guess it has got too big and too successful.