RE: Prior Convictions: MOT rule changes

RE: Prior Convictions: MOT rule changes

Friday 18th May 2018

Prior Convictions: MOT rule changes

From Sunday, any car over 40 years old will become MOT exempt. All 293,000 of them.



As of May 20, 293,000 more vehicles will become exempt from the annual MOT test. The Department for Transport has extended an exemption for the 197,000 cars built before 1960 to include those built more than 40 years ago. They rejected an idea to make it apply to cars built more than 30 years ago.

For why, Keats, for why? Because, according to the DfT, these cars are "usually maintained in good condition and used on few occasions". Alongside that comes the slightly contradictory suggestions that garages a) might not be adequately testing cars over this age because some modern MOT standards are less applicable, while b) acknowledging that cars of this age have a substantially lower rate of failure than average. Which I take to mean that garages must, at times, be using their nous to overlook minor foibles.

"We consider the element of risk arising from taking vehicles over 40 years old out of the testing regime is small," says the DfT.


Owners will still have the option of putting their cars through a voluntary MOT and "they will still, like all vehicle owners, need to ensure that they meet the legal requirement of keeping their vehicle in a roadworthy condition at all times."

Now, I'm slightly torn about this one. For a start, I can see the sense in freeing garages from having to use their discretion that comes with some classics: the amount of free play in the steering system of a 1965 car, for example, might be a bit different to a 2008 hatchback. And it will allow the DfT to tighten the new MOT tests to keep it appropriate for modern cars, without making life even harder for classic owners, or overwhelming garages with standards that vary depending on a car's age.

But I also see - because I own this precise kind of car - the possibility of vehicles that haven't been tested recently and are SORN'd, returning to the road without a thorough safety check first. Or the potential for an owner who can't quite remember when their cars was last looked over, find themselves out on a surprise sunny morning, and receiving a nastier surprise when something breaks.


I suppose, though, that most classic car owners are in some way mechanically minded. I suppose that, for the most part, seeing as it would be the classic car owner taking the risk - and who'd voluntarily want to? - that we'll still submit our cars for the kind of safety checks that the DfT envisages garages offering.

And I suppose, in an age where you're told what you cannot do rather often, it's quite refreshing for somebody to hand back trust over to us, because the risk is small, it sounds like common sense, and it'll be alright. But there's that nagging doubt about situations like these. We've all had one: ah, it'll be alright. Until it isn't.

Author
Discussion

Faffmeister

Original Poster:

23 posts

105 months

Friday 18th May 2018
quotequote all
A retrograde step I feel. Maybe an MOT 'lite' should have been introduced. You can just see the tabloids and the t'interweb going ape when the first no MOT old car accident hits the press.......

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

126 months

Friday 18th May 2018
quotequote all
Most of the shoutiness happened five years ago, when the pre-60 exemption was brought in. Nothing happened. The Brighton run veteran Mercedes fatality? That had an MOT. If Mr MOT can cope with a veteran, he can cope with a Mk3 Cortina.

The MOT has always had a big pile of "this only applies after <date>" exceptions and flexibilities.

Incidentally, why no mention of the single biggest factor in the change, and the reason it happened in the first place? The introduction of the originality test...

anonymous-user

54 months

Friday 18th May 2018
quotequote all
I own a "classic", and have owned many "near classics" - 2 seat sportscars - Westfields and the likes, and MOT time is always a challenge.

"slight play in wheel bearings" - they are old Ford bearings that are supposed to be wound back and left a little play in them - so they pass.

Then there are all the suspension rose joints, that don't have rubber boots - which can cause confusion. My brakes on one were from a very early Ford Capri so replacing contaminated (but perfectly working) brake pads was nearly impossible.

I have to explain with each car, how to start it, how to open (remove) the bonnet, how to bypass the hidden ignition cut off. Lots of little things.

I have a good garage that is helpful, but they do take longer on my cars than most others.

On a classic I'm not really sure you can miss a mechanical problem that is life threatening. There is no PAS, no active suspension, no comfort really! - So you notice loose steering, loose ball joints (and really, that rubber boot thing - that fails most cars, how many ball joints actually fail and fall apart?), you most definitely notice weak brakes, and pulling brakes. You also notice the expremely obvious - lights, wipers etc.

Saying that, it does seem odd this exemption. I wonder if it is simply because old cars can't pass the new tougher regulations, or that the amount of extra rules included to allow them to pass is too much of a headache for the MOT inspectors? One of my cars failed on emissions and I had to go to the tester and explain that due to it being a Q plate, it has to be treated as a "older than 1/8/1975" (even though it wase made in 96), then you look up that category and find it is a visual smoke test only. - It passed.


TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

126 months

Friday 18th May 2018
quotequote all
RogerDodger said:
On a classic I'm not really sure you can miss a mechanical problem that is life threatening.
I was talking about the change to my local classic-friendly tester the other day. He mentioned a 50s car that the owner was delighted would be exempt when the pre-60 rule came in.

A few years of only seeing it in use later, it came back in one day. "That noise from the front's getting quite bad, so I thought it probably needed looking at."

As they lifted the car up, one front wheel stayed on the ground, with brake drum attached and hub still attached.

CaptainRAVE

360 posts

112 months

Friday 18th May 2018
quotequote all
Interesting reasoning. I would have thought that vehicles of this age need an MOT even more than any other. That said, one of our vintage cars passed its MOT with ridiculous ease given that most of the questionable construction was well hidden.

SMB

1,513 posts

266 months

Friday 18th May 2018
quotequote all
The risk from an enthusiast owned classic is relatively low compared to that from an average 5-10 year old car , there will always be the odd exception but most enthusiasts maintain ththe cars and do very few road miles each year.
The mot is a single 45 minute period , on one day a year, it doesn't make the car safe for a year. An enthusiasts car is much more likely to be fixed and legal than a much younger car.


Life expectancy in the uk for a car is about 11 years, so getting to 40 means it has at some point had some reall tlc. Average failure rate is about 30% with many modern cars failing at that rate after just 3 years of age. This is the real risk as your average person doesn't maintain the car to the correct levels.

The obligation to be roadworthy with the £2500 fine remains , regardless of mot status so it won't mean barnfinds become road legal overnight.

Krikkit

26,527 posts

181 months

Friday 18th May 2018
quotequote all
SMB said:
The risk from an enthusiast owned classic is relatively low compared to that from an average 5-10 year old car , there will always be the odd exception but most enthusiasts maintain the cars and do very few road miles each year.
Very much this - the miles they cover vs the risk of them having a dangerous defect is minimal.

anonymous-user

54 months

Friday 18th May 2018
quotequote all
What they perhaps should do is to introduce a simpler "return to road" test that applies once to any car coming off a SORN that's been in place for more than 1 year?

That test could easily include the basics (brakes work, no excessive rust, nothing important has fallen off) but not go into things like emissions etc that make no difference on classics.

re33

269 posts

164 months

Friday 18th May 2018
quotequote all
How do you prove your car is roadworthy? Especially if It's self serviced? How do the insurance companies deal with claims? This is were the real problem will lie and is why the majority of owners will still get an MOT.

warch

2,941 posts

154 months

Friday 18th May 2018
quotequote all
I can't remember all this furore about the MoT exemption for cars built pre 1960. And some of the biggest vehicles on UK roads are and always have been exempt from testing (tractors, other agricultural vehicles and LGV recovery vehicles for example).

I'm not sure what people are moaning about. If there is a suggestion that people will use the rule change to save money on testing and vehicle upkeep costs, I'd imagine this would apply to a very very small minority of car owners. No classic car is anywhere near as cheap to run as a modern car.

Chris71

21,536 posts

242 months

Friday 18th May 2018
quotequote all
This is the first article on classic MOTs that I wholeheartedly agree with.

The situation is clearly less than ideal, but I think it's hillarious that some people seem to think the government have done this out of the kindness of their hearts. Someone has presumably decided that the average MOT garage or MOT tester is not equipped to deal with old cars. And they're right. What happens when you take a 1904 Locomobile down to Kwik Fit?

I also can't see people 'skimping' on safety as a result of this. The whole modern classics thing means that even the most boring pre-1978 vehicle now commands a premium. People don't buy them to save money, so I can't see £45 for an MOT being here or there.

I'm still in favour of some sort of roadworthiness check, but I think it would have to be done by a classic specialist - preferably one familiar with that specific model. That means the right person might not be cheap or easy to find, though. And it would still be very difficult to quantifiably define things like an acceptable brake torque to cover 80 years of different models so it would be open to personal interpretation from the testers. All of that makes me think the rule changes might not be such a bad idea after all.

stavers

251 posts

146 months

Friday 18th May 2018
quotequote all
Unfortunately this glosses over one major change to the regulations. Yes - cars over 40 years old will become MOT exempt "unless they have been substantially changed" within the past 30 years. So cars that are currently exempt could suddenly require an MOT...

One other potential issues is that it's all self-regulated but I can imagine the insurances companies now refusing to pay out in the event of an accident if the car has been substantially changed and not MOT'd. The Government has published a useful (I know - who said the age of miracles had passed!) 5 page document on the whole vehicles of historic interest subject here:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

126 months

Friday 18th May 2018
quotequote all
Chris71 said:
Someone has presumably decided that the average MOT garage or MOT tester is not equipped to deal with old cars. And they're right. What happens when you take a 1904 Locomobile down to Kwik Fit?
If only somebody would compile a list of test centres known to be "classic-friendly"...

Oh, wait.
http://fbhvc.co.uk/legislation-and-fuels/historic-...

bristolracer

5,540 posts

149 months

Friday 18th May 2018
quotequote all
Coming to an Ebay listing near you

BARN FIND - MOT EXEMPT
You wont even need a trailer to get it home!

sr.guiri

478 posts

89 months

Friday 18th May 2018
quotequote all
bristolracer said:
Coming to an Ebay listing near you

BARN FIND - MOT EXEMPT
You wont even need a trailer to get it home!
QUALITY!!! laugh

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

126 months

Friday 18th May 2018
quotequote all
bristolracer said:
Coming to an Ebay listing near you

BARN FIND - MOT EXEMPT
You wont even need a trailer to get it home!
A mate linked to one the other day. Early 70s yank muscle, "needs some work for MOT, or drive away in a few weeks."

Chris71

21,536 posts

242 months

Friday 18th May 2018
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
Chris71 said:
Someone has presumably decided that the average MOT garage or MOT tester is not equipped to deal with old cars. And they're right. What happens when you take a 1904 Locomobile down to Kwik Fit?
If only somebody would compile a list of test centres known to be "classic-friendly"...

Oh, wait.
http://fbhvc.co.uk/legislation-and-fuels/historic-...
I literally said two paragraphs further down that such places do exist.

And if you've got a mainstream classic I'm sure any of them would be fine. But what if you've got something very old or very obscure that's beyond the experience of someone used to MOT'ing Midgets and Morris Minors? Or what if you live in a remote area and the local MOT garage is not one of the classic-friendly ones? All I'm saying is that it's very difficult to make these things compulsory.

culpz

4,882 posts

112 months

Friday 18th May 2018
quotequote all
I really struggle with this.

Doesn't it just highlight that having a valid MOT isn't really as important as the Government let on? I base that on the fact they're willing to make an assumption about how cars of that age are looked after.

warch

2,941 posts

154 months

Friday 18th May 2018
quotequote all
stavers said:
One other potential issues is that it's all self-regulated but I can imagine the insurances companies now refusing to pay out in the event of an accident if the car has been substantially changed and not MOT'd.
The system is self regulating for all cars though. You can ring up an insurer and lie through your teeth to get cover for a car which has undeclared modifications, but that policy won't be worth the paper its printed on if you subsequently need to make a claim, MoT'd or otherwise.




Itsallicanafford

2,765 posts

159 months

Friday 18th May 2018
quotequote all
...i think its rather sporting of them

(goes outside, see's his 39 year old E24 basking in the sunshine ready for the weekend)