RE: PH Service History: Fun in the sun

RE: PH Service History: Fun in the sun

Sunday 1st July 2018

PH Service History: Fun in the sun

After all, God loves a convertible.



Ideal engine layouts for a fun sports car? No such thing as the perfect one, of course, as for every argument in favour of one someone can come back with a counterpoint against it. Furthermore, if you start quoting the motoring rule books at people, someone will always come back with an exception: your rear-engined car might handle like a sack of potatoes, thanks to its swing axle rear suspension, but my rear-engined car can lap the Nurburgring in under seven minutes.

What you need is a garage large enough to contain an example of each. As the weather's been good, I think we should take a moment (presumably not a polar one) and find ourselves an open-top car, and, with the help of our classifieds, build up that garage, being careful to keep everything cheap.

Where to start, then? Easy. For balls-out decadence, for extrovert pleasure, for sensual gratification and for sheer driving satisfaction there's a lot to be said for a mid-engined, rear-wheel drive layout. Even here I should add I'm thinking of a rear mid-engined layout, although there's nothing wrong, and quite a lot right, with a front mid-engined layout - it did just fine for the S2000, or the LFA, or even Bristol, after all.


Having established that, then, what size is our ideal fun car? Small is the word. If you've ever driven a mid-engined supercar of any sort, from Miura to 488 Pista, you will know that caution can impede enthusiasm as sure as blindspots can lead to accidents, as can the prospect of expensive repairs; this fun car needs to be small, and preferably easily repairable.

It follows it should be cheap to buy, too, and if it's small and lightweight it won't need a V12 to push it along - a 698cc turbocharged triple should do it nicely. The tiny Smart Roadster is still beloved by a coterie of enthusiasts for good reason - it might only have 80hp, and it might have a dim-witted automated manual gearbox, but its fun factor is sky-high. Indeed the experience of driving the thing actually overrides the obvious shortcomings inherent in the car's underpinnings: its steering is too slow and the handling can be a little wayward, after all, but if it's good enough for Gordon Murray - and it is, he loves his - it's probably good enough for us too. This one we found is worth a look at £3995.


Ancient and rarer than hen's teeth the glorious Fiat X1/9 outdates the Smart by a couple of hundred years. However, its mid-engined, rear-wheel-drive layout was a delight. The car was structurally remarkably strong, the better to cope with its removable Targa roof panel and the car's rollover capabilities. With a lively Lampredi SOHC engine borrowed from the impressive 128 saloon the X1/9 was just about fast enough in a straight line, in its day, and more than fast enough around the corners, with prodigious roadholding that really belied its modest tyres and handling that was infinitely adjustable. Now, alas, the ravages of time mean that X1/9s are rare and expensive, but here we've found one for £7995, a startling amount but one that is I guess no more frightening than those charged for some of its much less able contemporaries.

So you want something on a similar level but with a classic front-engine, rear-wheel-drive set up? Can't argue with a Mazda MX-5, and, if we're being honest, you can't logically argue with the statement that the newer ones are generally better than the older ones, despite their lightweight charms. The latest droop-snoot dinky toy is a fantastically good thing, and the previous Mk3 was pretty good fun, too. This 2007 low-mileage example of the third-gen car is up for just under £4k, making it something of a bargain and unfeasibly tempting. True, no one ever died of pleasure sitting in a Mazda, but the simplicity of the MX-5's driving experience - chuck it, boot it, catch it - will establish it as a legend long after the last petrol-engined car has rolled off the conveyor belt.


How about something with a front-engine, front-wheel drive layout? The Fiat Barchetta will do, for starters, providing you have no objection to left-hand drive. It might worry purists by being a Punto underneath but it had just enough brio and more than enough panache to see off its critics. This one is up for a mere £3k, and provided you adhere to all the usual rules inherent in buying an ancient Fiat it strikes me as a potential funster supreme. And don't worry, it resists understeer far better than its origins would have you believe. True, it's not as adaptable as some of its RWD rivals, but there's real pleasure to be had in its fluidity and composure through the bends.

However, if you prefer right-hand drive, and you want to stick with the Italian, why not try this Alfa Romeo GTV Spider? With steering at 2.2 turns lock to lock things start off well, and despite a few shakes from its rather loose scuttle it handles like a honey, blissfully agile and surprisingly neutral, and in 2.0-litre form probably even better balanced than the sonorous V6 version.


For a bit of added security, what about a front-engined, four-wheel-drive car? The Audi TT Quattro Roadster has a startling breadth of abilities and makes perfect sense, and if the V6 version strikes a chord on paper the cheaper to run 1.8T, with its 225hp and 0 to 60mph in 6.7 seconds potential, is perhaps the ideal tonic. A well-kept 2004 version with a low mileage looks good value at £4995.

The TT's intelligent Haldex coupling feeds power to the rear wheels only in extremis so the TT is a front-driver in most conditions, which means it's grippy and generally predictable. Don't think it dull, though, as it'll wag and twitch with the best of them on a fast corner, if you want it to, but what it offers that others can't is added security, especially if the roads be wet.


Okay. Finally. Where do we go for a reasonably priced, rear-engined, rear-wheel drive open-top sports car? Zuffenhausen, of course, if we're allowed to spend a little more, for perhaps the most perfect example of development over design since the Rolls-Royce motor car: the Porsche 911. To keep this cheap, let's pick out this prime 1998 996 Porsche 911 Carrera Cabriolet, up for just £11,995 in the classifieds.

You can't argue with a top speed of 174mph and a 0 to 60mph sprint time of 5.4 seconds, and nor can you argue with the immense grip that a properly shod 911 can provide, even one with a soft top. You can balance this one on the throttle or the steering, and whatever your thoughts on the merits or otherwise of rear-engined cars suffice it to say that modern 911s seem to work, and work well - think of it as an example of doing the wrong thing the right way, rather than the right thing the wrong way.

And on this final point I shall merely link back to my opening paragraph - there are always exceptions to every rule, and if you don't like the rules you must ignore them all. Including that one.

Mark Pearson

Author
Discussion

RSchneider

Original Poster:

215 posts

164 months

Sunday 1st July 2018
quotequote all
After having driven a multitude of cabriolets in all kind of configurations, my ideal drop-top for European use looks like that: 2+ seater with a bit of space behind the seats or pro-forma second row (pure 2-seater are often ergonomically challenged because of how far back the seat can be pushed, plus you can't have stuff like jackets in the cabin); low belt line is a must (with the center of the steering wheel roughly level with the belt line); a windshield not too flat and with the upper edge not too close to the driver's head; a deflector net to keep the turbulences out plus as a light protective cover for the area behind the seats; a trunk large enough for a long weekend for two and additional space for, say, two boxes of wine (also the trunk should not heat up like crazy); a decent sounding engine with decent torque low down (but no diesel!!); automatic gearbox since it makes things more relaxed; suspension on the soft side and a neutral and fluid handling (no all-wheel drive!); and then the car should be not too wide and not too heavy.

That combination is hard to find in a current production car. The closest from my experience is probably the BMW 2 Series Cabrio. Number two the Mini Cabriolet. The BMW 4 Series would also be good, and the metal roof has its charms and benefits but the trunk volume and shape with the top down is borderline. The big Maserati is just tooo huge. All Mercedes cabriolets have a way too high beltline, even though the SL is really not bad. MX-5 and clone would almost be perfect but suffer from the lack of cabin space.

Mr_Sukebe

375 posts

208 months

Sunday 1st July 2018
quotequote all
Missing is the mk3 MR2 and MGF (TF preferably).
Both are also cheap. The MR2 is supposedly the best to drive of the direct MX5 competitors, but has no boot at all, which makes weekends away rather difficult.

Not sure how any chopped up tin top like a 2 series or Mini is even considered. Results in a compromised shell, the rear seats are typically useless, unless your passengers are yoga teachers and as such, they're just carrying dead weight.

For me, the MX5. Relatively cheap, highly reliable, has vaguely adequate storage and still manages to both feel special and bring a smile.

QBee

20,976 posts

144 months

Sunday 1st July 2018
quotequote all
Missing are the TVR S and Chimaera. Mid-engined (try looking under the bonnet and you will see the engine is right at the back of the bay), perfect weight distribution, and a bundle of fun for £10k or less - invest £100 on a four wheel alignment to maximise the fun and minimise the resemblance to a hedge-seeking missile.


lotuslover69

269 posts

143 months

Sunday 1st July 2018
quotequote all
Not a fan of convertibles, however i enjoyed driving around in my old elise with roof off It was a bit of a faff though and often if there was a cloud in the sky i would drive with the roof on just in case.

I also had a smart roadster which was just as bad. You could however open up the roof without removing the frame pieces, sort of like a large sunroof. I got more use out of the convertible roof of the smart roadster than the elise.

I think if i was looking for a convertible i would go for one with an electric roof that can be stowed or erected within a few seconds as opposed to having to stop and get the roof out of a bag or fiddle with clasps.


Been looking at a Honda s660 and they look like they might be good open topped fun.

bearman68

4,652 posts

132 months

Sunday 1st July 2018
quotequote all
Mr_Sukebe said:
Missing is the mk3 MR2 and MGF (TF preferably).
Both are also cheap. The MR2 is supposedly the best to drive of the direct MX5 competitors, but has no boot at all, which makes weekends away rather difficult.

Not sure how any chopped up tin top like a 2 series or Mini is even considered. Results in a compromised shell, the rear seats are typically useless, unless your passengers are yoga teachers and as such, they're just carrying dead weight.

For me, the MX5. Relatively cheap, highly reliable, has vaguely adequate storage and still manages to both feel special and bring a smile.
Yes,I was looking eagerly for the MR2, Small, cheap, nippy, and a load of fun. The storage space is a bit poor, though I manage to get sports kit in it for me with no bother. And who wants an electric roof?

unsprung

5,467 posts

124 months

Sunday 1st July 2018
quotequote all
rear-wheel drive you say?

mid-engined you say?

and topless on occasion?

your neighbour will be unlikely to have one of these

unfortunately, pricing remains on the high side and selection low, in the UK



Edited by unsprung on Sunday 1st July 14:30

lotuslover69

269 posts

143 months

Sunday 1st July 2018
quotequote all


Honda s660 for low speed open top fun

lotuslover69

269 posts

143 months

Sunday 1st July 2018
quotequote all


Lotus M100 Elan always seemed like a good open top sports car. One of thebest handling front wheel drive cars you can buy and much better than the fiat barchetta.

Edited by lotuslover69 on Sunday 1st July 13:13

Baddie

615 posts

217 months

Sunday 1st July 2018
quotequote all
First BMW Z4 is fun, relatively simple, much more solid and rust resistant than an MX5, and has the sonorous straight six. The 2.5 rides reasonably, and can move about on its 225 tyres

Vocht

1,631 posts

164 months

Sunday 1st July 2018
quotequote all
I know it's not the coolest car in the world but if you want some super cheap summer fun the Ford KA convertible (StreetKA) is a right laugh to drive. A decent example can be had for £500 and they're pretty bullet proof. They sound good, have a decent spec (aircon, CD, heated leather seats, electric mirrors, central locking etc), and a good sized boot. If you're just looking for a nippy little summer car for going to the pub and back with the roof down on a sunny day, they're actually a great option.

kuro

1,621 posts

119 months

Sunday 1st July 2018
quotequote all
lotuslover69 said:
Not a fan of convertibles, however i enjoyed driving around in my old elise with roof off It was a bit of a faff though and often if there was a cloud in the sky i would drive with the roof on just in case.

I also had a smart roadster which was just as bad. You could however open up the roof without removing the frame pieces, sort of like a large sunroof. I got more use out of the convertible roof of the smart roadster than the elise.

I think if i was looking for a convertible i would go for one with an electric roof that can be stowed or erected within a few seconds as opposed to having to stop and get the roof out of a bag or fiddle with clasps.


Been looking at a Honda s660 and they look like they might be good open topped fun.
Did you have the hard top fitted to the roadster? The folding canvas roof is easy and can be used at any speed. I never bother with removing the side rails and just have the roof and windows open.

lotuslover69

269 posts

143 months

Sunday 1st July 2018
quotequote all
kuro said:
Did you have the hard top fitted to the roadster? The folding canvas roof is easy and can be used at any speed. I never bother with removing the side rails and just have the roof and windows open.
I had soft top, a few times i got caught out with it raining and me having to pull over to get the side rails out of the boot. they where quite easy to put in place.

Unfortunately at some point my electric roof malfunctioned and was stuck half open. I managed to get a relative to fix it but the cost would have been over 1000.00 at smart dealer. I did enjoy the smart roadster but parking it on the road it was subjected to some vandalism. the tyres were punctured 2x, a wing mirror was kicked off and someone once scratched the side of the car. never had any such issues with the elise or cayman.

Once i was parking up the smart roadster and a small child came up to me and said his dad had told him my car wasn't even fast. It was at this point i sold the roadster and bout an elise.

gt6

1,424 posts

185 months

Sunday 1st July 2018
quotequote all
Yes the MR2 is a car that can not be ignored if you are looking for a fun 2 seat mid engined convertible, OK luggage space is restricted but for 3k you get one hell of a bargain and will never lose money buying one or get an unreliable one. Oh yes i am on my second one and love it for summer fun, but lock it away for the winter.

skyrover

12,671 posts

204 months

Sunday 1st July 2018
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CDP

7,459 posts

254 months

Sunday 1st July 2018
quotequote all
Baddie said:
First BMW Z4 is fun, relatively simple, much more solid and rust resistant than an MX5, and has the sonorous straight six. The 2.5 rides reasonably, and can move about on its 225 tyres
I was going to mention Z4 and SLK. Z3s are very cheap - the six makes up for any shortcomings in the chassis and interior quality which seems even worse than the MG with some very ropy plastics.

I have the MG TF, it's a lot of fun when setup properly on the right tyres (in a different league to my MK2 MR2) but not on the wrong ones. The MK3 MR2 has a better driving position but as mentioned no luggage, I can't comment on the handling.

Most of the modern sports cars are desperately undervalued at the moment. Boxsters are stupidly cheap for what they are.

OK the Elise values are firmer than they used to be but still it's a hand built car.

But Pistonheads not mentioning TVR and Caterham?


edoverheels

357 posts

105 months

Monday 2nd July 2018
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I'm also looking at importing an S660.
Not many have made it over to the UK yet or I would buy one already over here.

g7jhp

6,964 posts

238 months

Monday 2nd July 2018
quotequote all
I'd agree on the Mazda MX5 (especially Mk1), but the article is more a driver to the classifieds rather than a guide to great convertibles.

How can you miss a Caterham or Boxster. Elise I could understand as it's more a targa than full convertible.

Best convertible for driving hands down. Caterham 7




The best budget convertible. Porsche Boxster 986 S




Most just want a convertible for image.

BMW E46 330 Ci Convertible is hard to beat on a budget



Mercedes 300SL R107 for cruising






Turbobanana

6,266 posts

201 months

Monday 2nd July 2018
quotequote all
As a long term (18 years) convertible owner, I find that it doesn't matter what car you actually drive, as long as you have "convertible mentality". Even my kids bemoan some of the smart-looking, ferociously expensive modern convertibles being driven around in the current heatwave with their roofs up.

If you are happy to compromise structural rigidity, practicality, space and even performance - as well as pay extra for the privilege - you need to use it as intended. If not, buy the saloon / coupe.

"Convertible mentality" = the willingness to actually use your convertible, even when the weather looks a little less than ideal. Take a chance - you might enjoy it! The fun is just as real in an open 205CJ (or similar) as it is in a LaFerrari Aperta.

V12GT

322 posts

90 months

Monday 2nd July 2018
quotequote all
Turbobanana said:
As a long term (18 years) convertible owner, I find that it doesn't matter what car you actually drive, as long as you have "convertible mentality". Even my kids bemoan some of the smart-looking, ferociously expensive modern convertibles being driven around in the current heatwave with their roofs up.

If you are happy to compromise structural rigidity, practicality, space and even performance - as well as pay extra for the privilege - you need to use it as intended. If not, buy the saloon / coupe.

"Convertible mentality" = the willingness to actually use your convertible, even when the weather looks a little less than ideal. Take a chance - you might enjoy it! The fun is just as real in an open 205CJ (or similar) as it is in a LaFerrari Aperta.
Totally agree - convertible mentality is key. Otherwise why bother paying extra for, and having the compromises of, a convertible?

Having had several over the years - we now have two in the garage - a 500C (wife loves it, because cute: I find it too slow and not enough wind in the hair) and a Mk3 MX-5 - probably the best version mixing fun and practicality. Haven't had the roof up in anything less than having rain whilst sitting in traffic (above 40mph the rain goes straight over). Don't drive it much in the winter, but the great heater means that you can still have the top down.

sideways man

1,315 posts

137 months

Monday 2nd July 2018
quotequote all
Turbobanana said:
"Convertible mentality" = the willingness to actually use your convertible, even when the weather looks a little less than ideal. Take a chance - you might enjoy it! The fun is just as real in an open 205CJ (or similar) as it is in a LaFerrari Aperta.
This sums up,convertible driving perfectly as a serial soft top owner.
My first was a sunbeam alpine bought in 1981 for £650, I remember being stopped by the police for driving at 10 pm with the roof down- seemed perfectly reasonable to me....

I seriously fancy a BMW Z4 3.0 , they seem to be quite bullet proof and a fair drive.

Edited by sideways man on Monday 2nd July 12:26