RE: Audi RS2 vs. SEAT Leon ST Cupra Carbon Edition

RE: Audi RS2 vs. SEAT Leon ST Cupra Carbon Edition

Saturday 24th November 2018

Audi RS2 vs. SEAT Leon ST Cupra Carbon Edition

The RS2 is 25 years old next year. Just how far has the small, quick, AWD estate come in a quarter of a century?



It says much about the rate of progress in fast cars that the segment created by the Audi RS2, appears in mortal danger. Less than 25 years after the small, super-quick wagon was created its existence has been jeopardised by the unstoppable rise of the compact SUV - a turn of events which seems to have barely heeded the comparative benefits of buying a rapid estate car or the strides made by the class since 1994.

Because really, nothing shows how spoilt we are in terms of democratised performance than the fact that SEAT has on sale a car with identical performance to the hallowed Audi, at vastly less money than it cost brand new. 300 or so horsepower, five or so seconds to 62mph and thirty or so thousand pounds is simply par for the course as far as the C-segment goes nowadays. Put in the context of the Porsche-fettled Audi 80, which was £46k in 1994, and it looks remarkable value.

Furthermore, this is perhaps as weak a package as the Mk3 Leon has yet represented in its four years as a Cupra, yet still it boasts a vast array of talents. The problems? The six-speed DSG feels a bit old now, lacking the crispness of the seven-speed offered in the Golf and the involvement of the manual found in the hatchbacks. The additional weight of the four-wheel drive system makes the acceleration feel less intense than the front-wheel drive cars, too. And without the VAQ technology on the front axle, that impression of tenacity found in the Cupra hatches - combined with a slightly wild edge - is notable by its absence here.


That said, the Leon ST Cupra is a thoroughly decent car. It delivers all the refinement, comfort and ease-of-use expected from a contemporary VW group product, while retaining just enough entertainment value to appeal to an enthusiast. The chassis' poise and agility is admirable which, allied to decent body control, gives the ST a nice sense of eagerness down a road. There's good throttle response; accurate, incisive steering; and an impressive braking performance, courtesy of the Brembo brakes first seen on the Performance Pack Leons.

Perhaps the biggest compliment that can be paid to the ST Cupra is that it retains the aura of a good hot hatch, its concessions to practicality costing little in terms of amusement. If you want maximum performance and practicality per pound with the minimum of fuss, drama and attention, the Leon is virtually unimpeachable.

However, not only are fuss, drama and attention apparently primary concerns for new cars buyers nowadays, they're also inescapable when within 100m of an Audi RS2. Because despite its humble origins, despite its advancing years and despite there now being a really rather modest SEAT that's every bit as quick, the RS2 mystique only grows stronger with each passing year. That's the reputation bestowed on the genuine gamechangers.


And yes, comparing an almost-skunkworks level, supercar-baiting project with a run-of-the-mill hatch flagship probably isn't conventionally fair - even with the age gap - but the similarities are too great to overlook. Of course it doesn't take long, either, to appreciate the lengths that were gone to for the Audi. In the SEAT, the latest 'Carbon Edition' upgrade sullies a handsome shape with gratuitous embellishment for the sake of 'super-charged styling', apparently. And if you think the colour looks plain, know that it's called 'Monsoon Grey' - it's also the only paint option available.

The RS2, on the other hand, in spite of a fairly meek stance and expansive glasshouse, couldn't nail the required aesthetic any better. There's enough to clock if you know what to look for - the 968 CS wheels, the 911 mirrors, the Porsche badges - but also a manifest sense of attitude for those less clued up to know that this isn't just some old Audi. It avoids the slight tackiness now found in some RS products without leaving any doubt as to its potential, which is immensely cool.

Like so many modern classics, however, that potential isn't immediately obvious on the road. Whereas cars like the Leon (and so many others) subscribe to the instant gratification school of 21st century fast cars, offering up instant torque, boundless performance and as much (or as little) noise as is asked for, the Audi requires a little more in the way of familiarisation. Of course by investing some time into learning how to get the best from the car, it forges a greater sense of connection, and then you have a more rewarding - if ultimately less objectively capable - driver's car. Sound familiar?


Everything in the Audi takes a little more thought and concentration, which is the very opposite of its adversary here - indeed the SEAT's problem can often be that you're travelling far faster than the car (and the way you're feeling) would suggest. It will certainly go extremely fast, the RS2 - perhaps even a tad quicker than the SEAT when they're both wound up - but it's going to take some effort. Honestly, below 3,500rpm it barely feels like a 1.2-litre, turbocharged car, let alone one with another thousand cubic centimetres of capacity, such is the lethargy. Up above that, though, and the rush is addictive, 315hp and 302lb ft feeling if anything a conservative measure given the way an RS2 just devours road and keeps coming back for more, gear after gear.

Lag of course presents its own challenges - and reward. The notchy (if actually quite satisfying) gearbox needs regular work to keep the five-cylinder out of its torpor, throttle applications (on a pleasingly hefty pedal) must be anticipated also and the faint Ur-Quattro murmur appreciated, because it's not a sound that's returning with the press of a button.

There's no doubt that the Leon is the more enjoyable car to tactlessly send up a road - its tighter control, greater reserves of grip and keener responses see to that. Yet the old RS2 is probably more entertaining than you might expect. One look at the under-bonnet shot and the engine's location will tell you a lot about the inherent balance, granted. But a certain sort of plush ride remains, along with pretty communicative steering by modern standards and the joy derived from a small, fast car that can be seen out of and placed confidently on a minor UK road. The latter point in particular seems rather lost on a lot of new vehicles.


Is the drive worthy of the prices currently being commanded by RS2s? No, in all honesty, the layout meaning things are ultimately a little blunt - though how many classics are now valued by significance rather than the experience? In the Audi's case the former point will only grow; as seemingly now every desirable automotive niche is filled (and many more we didn't want are, too), so the real icons will be ever more revered.

Fact is that not only is the Audi still quick in the context of new fast cars - it must have been truly ballistic in the mid-90s - but it still represents a desirable blend of attributes to this day as well. Indeed it's no surprise to find so many for sale on chunky mileages, because it's easy to imagine the RS2 simply fulfilling every single duty required of it, from family holdall to business express to A-road destroyer.

That the recipe for the fast Audi estate has changed relatively little since the RS2's introduction, and that the cars have remained steadfastly popular, shows just how right Ingolstadt got it first time around. Much like the E39 M5 and 306 GTI-6, it's easy to imagine just driving an RS2 day in and day out now; it'll always feel special, yet also eminently usable.


None of this is to deny the Leon considerable praise for offering so much of the same appeal in a warrantied, easier to access, nicer to drive modern family car. Mention should also go to the front-wheel drive, manual Leon Cupra ST as well - reduced traction may deny it some usability, but experience suggests that car is an even more exciting family rocketship. 200kg lighter than a Cupra Ateca, too...

Instead the fact that it so closely follows the template of the RS2 - small, turbocharged engine, punchy performance, good practicality and all-weather ability - and still delivers an immensely appealing package shows what a great idea it was, and still remains. Of course if your heart is set on a new SUV then we're not going to suggest an Audi estate from the 90s as an alternative, but don't forget the plain old hot wagon can still deliver. Let's hope there are a few more years of them left yet.


SPECIFICATION - SEAT LEON ST CUPRA CARBON EDITION
Engine:
1,984cc, 4-cyl turbocharged
Transmission: 6-speed DSG, all-wheel drive
Power (hp): 300@5,500-6,400rpm
Torque (lb ft): 280@1,800-5,500rpm
0-62mph: 4.9sec
Top speed: 155mph
Weight: 1,545kg, 'in running condition with driver'
MPG: 39.2 (NEDC combined)
CO2: 164g/km
Price: £35,575

SPECIFICATION - AUDI RS2
Engine:
2,226cc, 5-cyl turbo
Transmission: 6-speed manual, four-wheel drive
Power (hp): 315@6,500rpm
Torque (lb ft): 302@3,000rpm
0-60mph: 4.8 sec
Top speed: 163mph
Weight: 1,595kg
MPG: c. 21mpg
CO2: N/A
Price new: £45,705 (1994)

















 

Author
Discussion

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

54 months

Saturday 24th November 2018
quotequote all
Newer car is objectively better, older car has more "character" because it's flawed.

Newer car makes a far better daily drive, older car makes a better weekend toy because it's flawed and different, which can feel fresh and exciting if you don't have to live with it every day.

Some things never change. smile

Enjoyed the read though.

Fast and Spurious

1,320 posts

88 months

Saturday 24th November 2018
quotequote all
The most telling statistics, for those that might say things haven't moved on are MPG, which has nearly doubled, and RRP which is 40%!

GravelBen

15,684 posts

230 months

Saturday 24th November 2018
quotequote all
Fast and Spurious said:
The most telling statistics, for those that might say things haven't moved on are MPG, which has nearly doubled, and RRP which is 40%!
Claimed 'official' mpg has anyway. Wonder much closer the real-world users figures are?

SydneyBridge

8,588 posts

158 months

Saturday 24th November 2018
quotequote all
The RS2 proved a good investment, any for sale are mostly higher than the price when new

KPB1973

918 posts

99 months

Saturday 24th November 2018
quotequote all
I have a 4drive 300ST similar to this. Brilliant car - sure it has its flaws (it is a touch aloof, the gearbox is too aggressive in auto mode in anything other than Comfort, and the optional bucket seats are too high) but it is very quick, incredibly sure-footed and well appointed.

Plus it seems to be well below the radar compared to its Golf R and S3 siblings.

Mpg will easily reach high 30s on a run, or high 20s around the doors. Mine is tuned and has an epic mid-range on top of impressive initial traction.

It's one of those cars that do so many things well that I struggle to know what i'd change it for.

Fast and Spurious

1,320 posts

88 months

Saturday 24th November 2018
quotequote all
SydneyBridge said:
The RS2 proved a good investment, any for sale are mostly higher than the price when new
Higher than £90k? Plus 25 years of running costs? I don't think so.

TheBigUnit

364 posts

192 months

Saturday 24th November 2018
quotequote all
The RS2 is the car that started my passion for all things automotive. Fast estates and 4x4s are plentiful today, but in 1995 there was nothing like it. Factor in those Porsche details and I completely understand the prices that they command now.

howardhughes

1,005 posts

204 months

Saturday 24th November 2018
quotequote all
In thirty years time no one would give that Cupra a second look. That's if it hasn't been recycled by then.

I would take that Audi now AND in another thirty years time.

borat52

564 posts

208 months

Saturday 24th November 2018
quotequote all
If your willing to take a wander into the world of Japanese imports of the day you could have bought a wrx sti wagon from 1992 onwards for around £20k brand new, 240-260bhp and 1350kg. They went up a bit over time, I’ve got the original owners invoice from David Henry cars for my 1999 sti (280bhp, 340 with exhaust and map) for £28k.

Just to offer another perspective on how perhaps the Audi wasn’t particularly good value back then. Well built no doubt but I’m far from convinced it would have the better of an Impreza if driven enthusiastically.

Amirhussain

11,489 posts

163 months

Saturday 24th November 2018
quotequote all
Is that £45,705 in today’s money or 1994?

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

198 months

Saturday 24th November 2018
quotequote all
Did someone say RS2’s are £90k WTF. I remember when one MOD here years ago bought one for £12k as a risk for fun and also had an old Range Rover P38.

Not sure he is still a member or has moved to that other car forum??

Fast and Spurious

1,320 posts

88 months

Saturday 24th November 2018
quotequote all
Amirhussain said:
Is that £45,705 in today’s money or 1994?
Read the bloody article.

Bill

52,736 posts

255 months

Saturday 24th November 2018
quotequote all
borat52 said:
If your willing to take a wander into the world of Japanese imports of the day you could have bought a wrx sti wagon from 1992 onwards for around £20k brand new, 240-260bhp and 1350kg. They went up a bit over time, I’ve got the original owners invoice from David Henry cars for my 1999 sti (280bhp, 340 with exhaust and map) for £28k.

Just to offer another perspective on how perhaps the Audi wasn’t particularly good value back then. Well built no doubt but I’m far from convinced it would have the better of an Impreza if driven enthusiastically.
I pulled up behind an old Audi estate at a roundabout once thinking I'd have him on the next straight. I was in a standard Impreza Turbo. I soon learned not to judge a book by its cover!

It turned out it was a fellow PHer and we were heading the same way. We had a good play at sensible A-road speeds and at no point did he walk away like you'd expect him to with 50% more power. Flat out in the Impreza (verified on an airfield...) was 130 so I assume he'd have left me far behind had the speeds been less sensible.

I got to know him at various meets and can confirm he was trying, and also it pulled like an absolute train way into triple figures in a way the Impreza didn't.

ETA thinking about it the Impreza was a P reg, and the RS2 similar vintage, so both cars were 6/7 years old at the time.

Edited by Bill on Saturday 24th November 08:45

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

198 months

Saturday 24th November 2018
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
Did someone say RS2’s are £90k WTF. I remember when one MOD here years ago bought one for £12k as a risk for fun and also had an old Range Rover P38.

Not sure he is still a member or has moved to that other car forum??
His name was Garlick username.

DoubleD

22,154 posts

108 months

Saturday 24th November 2018
quotequote all
Maybe this will stop people from continuously saying that new cars are heavier than older cars.

Reciprocating mass

6,030 posts

241 months

Saturday 24th November 2018
quotequote all
Not really because Audi were always heavy old ships

Bluesmurff09

336 posts

168 months

Saturday 24th November 2018
quotequote all
Arnt the S2 published performance figures meant to be a touch conservitive? Ive read loads of articles which say that the S2 was actually alot quicker than published figures suggest.

Scoobysaurus

172 posts

97 months

Saturday 24th November 2018
quotequote all
I thought this was going to be the Shed of the Week feature, oops

Plenty of other places I'd put my money if I were to spend that much on some sort of "classic" car of historical significance

phumy

5,674 posts

237 months

Saturday 24th November 2018
quotequote all
Bluesmurff09 said:
Arnt the S2 published performance figures meant to be a touch conservitive? Ive read loads of articles which say that the S2 was actually alot quicker than published figures suggest.
"R" S2, theres a very big difference in that R

AQRS2

25 posts

96 months

Saturday 24th November 2018
quotequote all
charltjr said:
Newer car is objectively better, older car has more "character" because it's flawed.

Newer car makes a far better daily drive, older car makes a better weekend toy because it's flawed and different, which can feel fresh and exciting if you don't have to live with it every day.

Some things never change. smile

Enjoyed the read though.
Have you ever daily'd an RS2?