RE: Audi R8 Performance: PH Trade-off!

RE: Audi R8 Performance: PH Trade-off!

Sunday 25th November 2018

Audi R8 Performance: PH Trade-off!

Is there anything that can do quite what the Audi R8 Performance can for half the price? Well, yes, actually - and more...



There's a big risk of poking a hornets' nest here, but for this week's Trade-Off, we're revisiting our first drive of the facelifted Audi R8 - the one that resulted in an enormous thread on the PH forums which, essentially, saw R8 lovers and detractors locked in a debate more acrimonious and lengthy than Brexit itself.

The R8, said many of our readers, is nothing more than a big TT - a fact brutally brought home by the fact that a TT RS isn't actually a whole heap slower and, with two rear seats and a hatchback, actually more usable and practical day-to-day. 'Ah, but,' said the R8ers, 'A TT RS simply can't compare with the thrill and spectacle of that V10 engine, and nor can a TT offer the same supercar feel or chassis adjustability'.

We're wading into this fray with our take on the 'But for that money, you can get a...' argument. But we're not going to pick a TT RS - for one thing, it'd just be too easy, and for another, we tend to agree with the sentiment that it doesn't feel quite special enough to offer the same sense of occasion you get with an R8. What's more, it might be almost as quick - but can't actually match the performance of the R8 Performance, so to speak.


So, what else is there that offers the same combination of four-wheel drive, sensational performance, aural excitement, and a sense of occasion? Well, it's hard given the criteria not to look Porsche-ward, and in the direction of one of the R8's chief rivals: the 911 Turbo. This S would do the trick, fitted as it is with the Aero Pack, and it'd certainly have the pace to keep with the R8. Is it special enough? Opinions will differ. Either way, though, we can probably do better than an eight-year-old car with 60k on the clock.

Indeed, this Jaguar F-Type R AWD at just a year old is particularly tempting. It certainly looks pretty special, and with the aural accompaniment of that thumping V8 it's a pretty dramatic way to get around. But for all its noise and fury, the F-Type R isn't actually as quick as the R8 - or indeed, an Audi TT RS, and given that we've already judged the TT as not fast enough to be a real alternative, that rather precludes the Jag's selection here.

Indeed, the half-price hero we've selected to rival the R8 Performance this week is actually, according to the figures, faster. In fact, it's faster than almost anything this side of a bona fide hypercar. It's also equipped with four-wheel drive, and while not quite as aurally spectacular as the R8's V10 wail, it still sounds pretty special, the guttural warble of its V6 engine overlaid by the whooshes and chunters of its two turbos.


Yes, if you hadn't guessed already, it's the Nissan GT-R. This one, to be precise - which, with only a shade more than 5,000 miles on the clock and at a year old, is barely used, though it does get the benefit of a £12,000-plus saving on the list price. And as a 2017 model year car, it benefits from the 570hp version of Nissan's 3.8-litre twin-turbo V6, enough to give it an official 0-62 time of 2.8 seconds - 0.3 seconds up on the R8. Of course, that'll make little to no difference in the real world - indeed, you'll probably struggle to replicate the Nissan's figure - but the point is, the GT-R is every bit as quick as the new R8. Mind-warpingly quick, in fact.

It should be just as entertaining to drive, too. What's so special about the GT-R is how endlessly adaptable it is to whatever mood you might be in, with apex-clipping precision, tail-out larks, or any blend thereof available at your command. "The way 1,800kg can be so precisely controlled remains incredible, the whole car amenable to whatever way you want to drive," said the esteemed Mr Bird when he drove the MY17 GT-R. "The stability in the quick stuff is fantastic, the traction out of slower bends mighty and the brakes seemingly tireless despite some grumbling."

There are plenty of similarities beyond the fact that all four wheels are driven, too. Both of these cars top out at roughly 200mph - the Nissan losing out by 9mph to the Audi's 205mph top whack. Both weigh roughly the same, though again, the Nissan gives away 82kg. Yet despite this, both even post near-identical fuel consumption figures, so when you aren't pedalling hard, the Nissan shouldn't actually cost you any more to run.


What's more, the GT-R is just as usable as the R8; with its light controls and decent visibility, you can bimble around town in it almost as easily as though it were a Pulsar - although we won't pretend Nissan's powertrain possesses the refinement of Audi's engine and gearbox. Yet, in some ways, it can claim to outdo the everyday ownership experience of the R8; admittedly, they're tiddly ways, but those two extra seats mean you can strap the kids in for big days out - or subject a couple of adults to the most cramped and potentially terrifying passenger ride of their lives. The boot's about three times bigger, too.

Downsides? Well, it has to be said that the GT-R's interior can't match the plushness of the R8's, but as a Recaro edition, this example does at least come with some boudoir-esque red and black leather sports seats that jazz things up a little. What's more, for all of its plasticky nooks, that dash will at least be solidly screwed together, and you'll get all the toys you could ever need.

Yes, the GT-R loses out in the badging and styling stakes; you'll never look quite as swish turning up to a swanky dinner party in one as you will in the Audi. But if you're not too worried about things like that, and you fancy something that can do everything a brand-new R8 can - give or take - for half the price, then this year-old example makes a worthy alternative. Enough for you to halve your budget and choose it instead? We wouldn't half be tempted.


SPECIFICATION - AUDI R8 PERFORMANCE COUPE
Engine:
5,204cc, V10, petrol
Transmission: 7-speed dual-clutch auto, four-wheel drive
Power: 620hp at 8,000-8,250rpm
Torque: 428lb ft at 6,500pm
0-62mph: 3.1sec
Top speed: 205mph
Weight: 1,670kg
MPG: 24mpg (est)
CO2: 290g/km (est)
Price: £141,000 (est)

SPECIFICATION - NISSAN GT-R
Engine:
3,799cc V6 twin-turbo, petrol
Transmission: 6-speed dual-clutch auto, four-wheel drive
Power (hp): 570@6,800rpm
Torque (lb ft): 469@3,300-5,800rpm
0-62mph: 2.8sec
Top speed: 196mph
Weight: 1,752kg (minimum kerbweight)
MPG: 23.9mpg (NEDC combined)
CO2: 275g/km
Price: £69,495

Author
Discussion

mersontheperson

Original Poster:

701 posts

165 months

Sunday 25th November 2018
quotequote all
GT-R for me
I can’t think of two cars that more perfectly epitomise the difference between people who buy the badge and those who don’t.

Just my opinion no offence meant

Edited by mersontheperson on Sunday 25th November 07:02

CS Garth

2,860 posts

105 months

Sunday 25th November 2018
quotequote all
I’d be looking at a Mercedes AMG GT for 70-75k too.

Slightly different type of car granted but then at this price point I’d just finds the extra few quid for a 997.1 GT3 if I wanted a proper sports car, and the plus side is it would hold its value.

Brian Fallon

40 posts

71 months

Sunday 25th November 2018
quotequote all
On paper, yes, the Nissan all the way BUT the noise it makes would make it impossible (for me, at least) to live with. I realise that "too loud" is an oxymoron for some enthusiasts, but for this geezer, it's just way too loud. A good car doesn't,'t have to scream going 20mph.

redroadster

1,736 posts

232 months

Sunday 25th November 2018
quotequote all
Heads really turn when you drive and arrive in a R8 ,is that not at least half the attraction of spending a lot on a car ? To make you feel good .

Robert-nszl1

401 posts

88 months

Sunday 25th November 2018
quotequote all
mersontheperson said:
GT-R for me
I can’t think of two cars that more perfectly epitomise the difference between people who buy the badge and those who don’t.

Just my opinion no offence meant

Edited by mersontheperson on Sunday 25th November 07:02
I'm sure the GTR is very accomplished, but for the money the interior looks very low rent, I'm just not sure I could live with it. Even for £70k rather than £140k I'd want the cabin to be a bit special, as well as the driving experience. Surely in buying an Audi you aren't buying a badge either? In supercar world the Audi is not a premium marque.

For half the money, as another poster wrote, I'd be tempted by the AMG GT. Or if I wanted to avoid depreciation and have a car that offered most of the performance (certainly around corners) a Cayman GT4.

As a new car purchase the R8 looks way out of its depth. And they have ruined the looks with that hideous grill in my view. But I won't start that thread again!

Scoobysaurus

172 posts

97 months

Sunday 25th November 2018
quotequote all
mersontheperson said:
GT-R for me
I can’t think of two cars that more perfectly epitomise the difference between people who buy the badge and those who don’t.

Just my opinion no offence meant
Absolutely agree, it could equally be said for the TT at a lower price point

Enjoyed the article PH coffee

Mr JP

96 posts

218 months

Sunday 25th November 2018
quotequote all
CS Garth said:
I’d be looking at a Mercedes AMG GT for 70-75k too.
Now that does sound like a very interesting option!

sidesauce

2,468 posts

218 months

Sunday 25th November 2018
quotequote all
redroadster said:
Heads really turn when you drive and arrive in a R8 ,is that not at least half the attraction of spending a lot on a car ? To make you feel good .
Absolutely this. Between an R8 and the Nissan, the mid-engined car, the fact it's an N/A V10 and the proportions of the thing mean it would get the nod. That being said, an AMG GT would be a choice that'd be extremely hard to turn down though!

FN2TypeR

7,091 posts

93 months

Sunday 25th November 2018
quotequote all
Mr JP said:
CS Garth said:
I’d be looking at a Mercedes AMG GT for 70-75k too.
Now that does sound like a very interesting option!
Agreed. I'd want a new AMG GT (not sure on the price?) in that funky green colour given the choice, a proper mad hatter of a vehicle - yes please! silly

big_rob_sydney

3,400 posts

194 months

Sunday 25th November 2018
quotequote all
If you must compare new with second hand, then for the second hand option, could you not pick up an Audi GT?

This is roughly half the price, has similar performance, and will, in all likelihood, become a future classic due to the limited numbers made. Big caveat there in that while THAT model is limited, they made a bunch of "regular" R8's, and I'm not convinced personally there is enough to truly differentiate the regular models with the "GT", but in the world of classic cars, there are all sorts of unusual happenings, so it may actually turn out that way.

But back to this article, yes, the GTR for me every day.

I feel like the Audi is overestimated, whereas Nissan is underestimated. I'd take the underdog every day of the week, if only for the fun of what this car can do and enjoy its abilities, while still leaving another 70k to be invested in women and ... more women.

Ex Boy Racer

1,151 posts

192 months

Sunday 25th November 2018
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Agreed. If doing a second-hand vs new comparison, then the closest has to be a second-hand R8! Very pointless.
Re R8 vs Nissan. Test drove a Nissan when I had my R8. Couldn't get on with the rattling from the transmission personally. Car sounded rough and knackered. Like comparing a Cessna with a Lear jet noise-wise..

Daston

6,074 posts

203 months

Sunday 25th November 2018
quotequote all
Gallardo for me with a 6 speed box.

E65Ross

35,048 posts

212 months

Sunday 25th November 2018
quotequote all
mersontheperson said:
GT-R for me
I can’t think of two cars that more perfectly epitomise the difference between people who buy the badge and those who don’t.

Just my opinion no offence meant

Edited by mersontheperson on Sunday 25th November 07:02
Not sure I agree. Whilst the Nissan is mega, I don't think its engine is anywhere near as evocative.

J4CKO

41,453 posts

200 months

Sunday 25th November 2018
quotequote all
mersontheperson said:
GT-R for me
I can’t think of two cars that more perfectly epitomise the difference between people who buy the badge and those who don’t.

Just my opinion no offence meant

Edited by mersontheperson on Sunday 25th November 07:02
Does anyone spending all that money on an R8 or a GTR really get sniffy about a Nissan badge versus and Audi one ?

Maybe when up against Ferrari, Porsche, Mclaren, Lamborghini etc but Audi ? nothing wrong with Audi but they are a mainstream manufacturer just like Nissan, your Supercar shares a badge with superminis, crossovers, rep mobiles and SUV's ?

Surely the GTR badge is the important one ?

fatboy b

9,492 posts

216 months

Sunday 25th November 2018
quotequote all
There’s more to life than 0-60 and lap times, but I’d have the Audi if I were forced to make a choice.

Ex Boy Racer

1,151 posts

192 months

Sunday 25th November 2018
quotequote all
J4CKO said:
mersontheperson said:
GT-R for me
I can’t think of two cars that more perfectly epitomise the difference between people who buy the badge and those who don’t.

Just my opinion no offence meant

Edited by mersontheperson on Sunday 25th November 07:02
Does anyone spending all that money on an R8 or a GTR really get sniffy about a Nissan badge versus and Audi one ?

Maybe when up against Ferrari, Porsche, Mclaren, Lamborghini etc but Audi ? nothing wrong with Audi but they are a mainstream manufacturer just like Nissan, your Supercar shares a badge with superminis, crossovers, rep mobiles and SUV's ?

Surely the GTR badge is the important one ?
Badges seem to matter more to these people who keep talking about them than they do to the people who buy the cars.

Nerdherder

1,773 posts

97 months

Sunday 25th November 2018
quotequote all
Wonder how much all of the cars will keep depreciating. There will be a ton of interesting, attainable cars out there when this generation of super sports cars hits the bottom of the curve.

Housey

2,076 posts

227 months

Sunday 25th November 2018
quotequote all
I hope, I mean hear, the 2013 R8 V10 Plus is now around 120K for a good one, but only Red ones attract that price.


Vetteran

238 posts

177 months

Sunday 25th November 2018
quotequote all
FN2TypeR said:
Mr JP said:
CS Garth said:
I’d be looking at a Mercedes AMG GT for 70-75k too.
Now that does sound like a very interesting option!
Agreed. I'd want a new AMG GT (not sure on the price?) in that funky green colour given the choice, a proper mad hatter of a vehicle - yes please! silly
Sold an R8 V10 Plus bought an AMG GTC. R8: beautifully built, engine fab. AMG: 4 wheel steer makes the car more agile I also prefer rear wheel drive cars. AMG in race mode hilarious, engine fantastic if you like the idea of a european muscle car this is the one and it offers the open air option.

Gav10

12 posts

100 months

Sunday 25th November 2018
quotequote all
I’ve had 3 GTR’s. the last one being a 2017. Also a 2010 R8 V10 and now a 2016 V10 plus. The Nissan is fantastic but can’t quite live up to the dramatics or the pace of the Audi. Badge aside I’d buy a used V10 plus at £90k.